Who is Tom Bombadil

[Galadriel14]

Can anyone tell me who the hell is Tom Bombadil? Why does he appears in the book? I'm confused!!!! :(

[Catz]

we actually had a thread on this ages ago.....ill go thread diving into the cyber void and see if i can find it for you.....TB actually existed before the book was written and appeared in the book The Adventures of Tom Bombadil....the character was based on a doll one of the Tolkien children owned...
Most opinion was divided between an aspect of Illuvatar...which i dont like the idea of.......i mean the thought of a god wearing those clothes and spouting that awful doggerel...urrrrgghh
or the Spirit of Middle Earth itself, which makes more sense to me...
but to be honest i dont think the Tolkien himself had any real idea;) lol
Ill post a link to that thread if i find it Galadriel14
ok this isnt the one i wanted but it does discuss it a bit
here (http://warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360) there was another one.....but i cant remember where it was....sorry Galadriel
:catz:

[Galadriel14]

That helps a lot! Thanks! :thumbs:

[Grond]

from The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, #153 To Peter Hastings (draft)
...I don't think Tom needs philosophizing about, and is not improved by it. But many have found him an odd or indeed discordant ingredient. In historical fact I put him in because I had already 'invented' him independently (he first appeared in the Oxford Magazine)3 and wanted an 'adventure' on the way. But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out. I do not mean him to be an allegory – or I should not have given him so particular, individual, and ridiculous a name – but 'allegory' is the only mode of exhibiting certain functions: he is then an 'allegory', or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture . Even the Elves hardly show this : they are primarily artists. Also T.B. exhibits another point in his attitude to the Ring, and its failure to affect him. You must concentrate on some pan, probably relatively small, of the World (Universe), whether to tell a tale, however long, or to learn anything however fundamental – and therefore much will from that 'point of view' be left out, distorted on the circumference, or seem a discordant oddity. The power of the Ring over all concerned, even the Wizards or Emissaries, is not a delusion – but it is not the whole picture, even of the then state and content of that pan of the Universe.It appears Tolkien wanted him in the story, even though he didn't really "fit" into any of the catogories the author himself created. Tom "is" an enigma. A mystery of Middle-earth which cannot be explained. :)

[Bawax]

if i had to put him in a category it would be that he was one of the Maia, a very weird one granted but i think he fits there best. :)

[Finrod Felagund]

The fact that the Ring had no power over him points to the fact that he wasn't a Maia. Gandalf ( a Maia) was afraid of what he would do if he had the Ring, Saruman lusted after it and Sauron was a Maia. Tom wore it and it had no effect. I think like Goldberry said; "He is"

[Lady Ashley]

Good heavens....the eternal question: who/what is Tom B? I think he's cool. Poor Tom, got the cut for both Bashki's (sp?) and PJ's...I read he's in the Fellowship Xbox game, tho!

[Bonos-Girl]

what does he do in the fellowship game??
if they thought him so unimportant as to leave him out of the film then what can he add to the game?

[Lord Raistlin]

I was thinking for that too. What does he do?

[Tary]

Originally posted by Lady Ashley Thalionwen
Good heavens....the eternal question: who/what is Tom B? I think he's cool. Poor Tom, got the cut for both Bashki's (sp?) and PJ's...I read he's in the Fellowship Xbox game, tho!
It says at amazon.com that he is in the PC version too.

[Bonos-Girl]

wow..thats cool....tom is actually in something!!

[Firith Evenstar]

that's nice. i was also a little bit bothered by the fact that he didn't make it into the film. I think Robbie Coltrane would have played him nicely.

[Lord Raistlin]

Robbie Coltrane? who that?

[Bonos-Girl]

isn't he the guy that played hagrid.....

[Lintefaniel]

Originally posted by Finrod Felagund
[ Tom wore it and it had no effect. I think like Goldberry said; "He is" [/B] Yep, and Robby Coltrane would have been a nice addition but I see Tom as a sort of flighty, stout man and not too big in stature or height. His personality is larger then life but his physical being would be rather comforting altogether. You know some what inviting....;) :)

[Tar-Palantir]

well.. back to the subject?
i think that T.B. was a nature spirit, you can read more on the encyclopedia of arda. And a wierd thing is stated in LOTR that Tom came 'before' the Dark Lord came from outside, who and when does this refer to, Morgoth or Sauron, the first time Morgoth entered Arda or when he returned to Arda? Any help with this will be appreciated

[Eärendil]

Tom Bombadil, was he representing anything? or maybe he was just a literary mistake, who was meant to be told of? maybe he was just there so that people like me can say; "hey, who was Tom Bombadil!"
What do u think? and when i say you, i don't mean quotes from someone else's theory. Too many people go aorund looking for theories when the text is right in front of you! you can see exactly what is written, so make your own theories! :)

[Mirkgirl]

hehe I have my own lil theory... I don't support the thories that Tom Bombadil is Illuvatar... or Maia even. But I've always thought of him as some side-effect of Flame Imperishable (using "side-effect" as I'm not quite sure about his role in the whole thing; itself, incarnation maybe, or guardian, but all these theories semm both right and wrong)... that's the only way I see he to be here before seas and the dark lord.....
If we accept this theory, it does make him closely related to Illuvatar as Flame Imperishable was in Illuvatar at first.... good enough? :naughty:

[Tar-Palantir]

Mirky:

Therefore Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä


Gandalfs words on the Bridge of Khazad-Dum:

You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am a servant of Tom Bombadil, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass.

[Catz]

now now........Mirky never said that he WAS the flame.......merely an effect of it.......as i understand it Mirky........and correct me if im wrong here, which i probably am lol.......that hes a personification of the spark of the divine that animates ME......which is a perfectly reasonable theory, considering he was "first"........ive always seen him as a kind of personification of ME myself.......both powerful yet uninvolved in the lives of men and elves and such
:catz:

[Bonos-Girl]

thats actually a really interesting theory mirky.

[Tar-Palantir]

Well, it did sound funny, didn't it?
As for the theory, it sounded quite logical. It MAY be so, then again, it MAY not be so.

We might never know.

[Mirkgirl]

You're not wrong catz (I can't believe Im actually saying this :elfeek: )
"a personification of the spark of the divine that animates ME" very well said... couldn't say it better myself...

[Tar-Palantir]

WOW! PPL GETTING ALONG!!! This has happened to me like ... all day!

[Nerdanel]

Who or what exactly is Tom Bombadil? I didn't really get it with him in the LOTR.... is he an ainu, or an elv? Well, ok, elv is rather unlikely. But I think he might be an Ainu

[Mirkgirl]

Well that was a new thread I merged with the existing one... I guess you can find my answer to the eternal question "who is Tom?" if you read it (:

[Nerdanel]

sorry for the new thread i didnt find this one :blush: well anyway
i think he is a maia. and the fact that the ring affected Gandalf but not Tom is simply because he's even more powerful than Sauron. The ring has only a part of Saurons power so it couldn't do anything to Bombadil....well thats what i think

[Elfdaughter]

No one really knows, do they? I think he was a Maia, actually, same as Goldberry.

[Ludibunda]

Tom is naural
Tom is good
Not everybody knows him
But everybody should

Translation: Read the book 'cause he's not in the movies!

[Narya]

i have no idea where to post this but i found it extremely interesting.

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm

there are some other interesting theories on this site also. Enjoy!

[Amoraq]

well...that IS interesting and I must say I don't really agree.
While they might have noted some strange coincidences, I'd have to say, why did Tom help Frodo when the hobbits were in trouble? if Tom was the witch king, then he should have just taken the ring right away.

[Gwaihir]

Very true, Amoraq. The theory is interesting but has no proof, and if he WAS the Witchking, why didn't he take the ring? You've got a good point there.

No, Tom Bombadil is not evil. He is a very powerful being in spirit on Middle Earth. He just can't be the Witchking because that doesn't make sense. However, it is fun to wonder about what he really is, isn't it? :)

[Lady Ashley]

These are "crackpot" theories that are really simply jokes, being silly. I thought at first that they were serious but they're really just for a laugh. They are VERY funny! (even if a little crackpotted.)

[Hobbit]

I agree with Lady Ashlay: if JRR would have intended Tom to be the captain of the evil forces, then why would he write "the adventures of Tom Bombadil" the way he did? (Tom Bombadil is a jolly fellow... and also the biggest foe next to Sauron lol)
And why would Goldberry merry him?
It's a fun theory though.

[Saruman]

I personally think that Bombadil is actually Treebeard.
By the way, if you go to the main page of that site you'll find a link to one of the funniest internet movie I've ever seen...

[Amoraq]

Bombadil is Treebeard? That's interesting...but I think they're two different beings.

Tom is just a wonderful jolly fellow who's been around forever. As to wky he's immune to the rings power, I guess he just doesn't lust for power and has wht he wants and doesn't desire anything extra so the ring can't hold him.

[Saruman]

Think about Bombadil and Treebeard, though:
They both claim to be the eldest.
They both live among nature.
They have the same initials (Tree-Beard)
lol

[Amoraq]

Well, yeah...but lol I don't think so. I think Tolkein was just having fun creating coincidences.

[Lhuntidomion]

You know what I think? I think Bombadil is a human form of Eru. He was able to put the ring on and it was like a normal ring to him. Plus he had the power to keep the ring, but he wouldn't have. It's like the whole world's fighting and God suddenley comes down. "Hey everyone, give me the nuclear weapons and I'll keep them safe so nobody sets them off". He wouldn't get involved. Hmmmmm......... At any rate Bombadil is most certainly not yje Witch-king, or Treebeard.

[Amoraq]

Yeah, it's like what Gandalf said. Something about the "ring has no hold over him" and he would've forgotten he had the ring. I wouldn't say he was like Eru though because I doubt a god would forget he had the ring of power. And I def don't believe bobadil is any sort of bad person. He just IS, I don't think he is really on the side of good either...just neutral though he does seem to favor the good people

[Mirkgirl]

Okay as this grows into a discussion who is Tom Bombadil I merged it with the old Who is Tom Bombadil thread... I've got nothing to add to my opinion - Tom is just a side-effect of Flame Imperishable (read before for the full version)

That article is interesting... but not something believable, even tho they have some good points

[Rumil]

Bombadil was a Tolkien family joke.. he was a doll owned by Michael (Tolkien's son) and who featured in many childhood stories but which was not liked by Michael's brother, John, who stuffed him down the toilet. I love the fact that Tolkien slipped some of his kids toys into his mythology - a bit like PJ putting his kids into the films. It is a bit like Frodo meeting a teddy bear in the woods!!

[Mirkgirl]

Well yes, but that's the history behind the idea... once it enters the world of Middle Earth it's no longer just the poor doll, it has a new life... it has it's own history... it's no longer just a doll...
Hope someone else but me understands what I mean lol

[Rumil]

I rather like the idea of Tokien sneaking in this ridiculous character, who is utterly incongruous with the rest of the plot or mythical plan for his universe and who speaks in a doggerel of Anglo-Saxon alliterative verse. (Before English poetry used conventions of rhyme it was based on the alliterative line which had two half lines and would alliterate one stressed syllable three time across the line length - thus one half line would have two alliterative stresses and the other would only have one. A fairly typical example from Bombadil would be "down west sinks the sun; soon you will be groping". This is exactly the same verse structure used, say for example in Beowulf) Bombadil is a professor's joke .. he talks nonsense in an archaic poetic form and is unreconcilable with the carefully constructed hierarchies and mythologies of Arda. I think it is probably pointless to try and define him as he is clearly meant to resist all definition and playfully combines family history and learned nonsense.

[Amoraq]

Well, no matter what Bombadil really is...I just love the character. He was really fun and never seemed to get really worried.

Too bad he got cut out of the movies :(

[Gil Galad]

i think the only way to describe Tom Bombidil, is that he is Tom Bombadil, nothing more nothing less and nothing else. there does not seem to be any xplanation of him or his origin, he just is

[Luthien Tinuviel]

Sounds like you people are talking about God, "he is" and God is "I am" sorry, I thought of that when I read the first post that said "he is".

[Elfdaughter]

Aw...come ON!!! Tom Bombadil was one of the Lesser Ainur (Can't remember their names, but I am tired!) - not the Witch-king or Tree-beard! Goldberry is the daughter of one of the River Ainur - she is a water one, he is a nature one!

[Mirkgirl]

Well that's one of the versions... everyone is free to believe what they want as Tolkien never said what Tom Bombadil is.

I believe the term is Maia.

[Elfdaughter]

Thanks Mirkgirl! I knew it was something like that! (ahem....) Yeah, I just thought the Witchking version and the Tree-beard version were a little....far-fetched, shall we say?

[Mirkgirl]

Yeah... they can't both be Tom... one has to be Goldberry :p

No really it's quite certain that good old Tom is not WK or Treebeard... we still have to consider the Arwen theory though ;)

IMO he's not a Maia either... but that's not certain (:

One of the good things of Tom is that everyone sees what they want in him...

[Elfdaughter]

Yeah, he could be anyone or anything, really couldn't he. I didn't see that Arwen one! lol

[Luthien Tinuviel]

I don' t know what Tom is, Maia is certainly a good guess, but from reading about Melian in the stuff about Beren and Lúthien...there seems to be a really big difference in the 2. Then again, there's a really big difference between Manwe and Melkor and they're both Valar. I don't know, I do like guessing, just wondering. Arwen, I definately haven't seen anything about Arwen....But he's certainly not the Witch King or Treebeard, that's just nuts!