FAQ - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

[Wilwarin]

Language Forum FAQ! This thread was last updated on May 12, 2004


This thread is now finished, but may be updated from time to time. So check back often

There have been a lot of new people posting here lately, all with the same questions. Instead of answering them all dozens of times in different threads, we now have a FAQ thread, due to the work of Wilwarin, Ohtarien, and Mánalinya. Below are the Frequently Asked Questions and their answers.

If you have a question that you would like added to this list, please PM Wilwarin or Mánalinya.

Scroll down to browse through all the questions, or click on one of the links bellow.

— Meet this forums moderators and resident Elvish "scholars" (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=23632&postcount=2)
— Most active threads (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=23775&postcount=3) — Check here before making a new thread
— How to make the special characters used in Elvish. For PC users (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=294279&postcount=4), for Mac users (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=304461&postcount=5)

FAQ

— Where can I learn Elvish/find an Elvish dictionary? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349979&postcount=6)
— What is Tengwar, and where can I learn to write it? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349981&postcount=7)
— How do you do the translations? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349982&postcount=8)
— What is the difference between Quenya and Sindarin? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349983&postcount=9)
— Which should I learn first; Quenya or Sindarin? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349984&postcount=10)
— What is the difference between Tolkien Elvish and the 'fake elvish' I keep hearing about? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349986&postcount=11)
— Why should I get my name/phrase translated at WaroftheRing instead of using an instant translator found online? (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=349987&postcount=12)

[Wilwarin]

Ithildiel Noldoran and Laurelin - Forum Moderators


ITHILDIEL NOLDORAN
:wave: Just coming in to introduce myself; I fell in love with the elvish languages from the second I first read LotR. I started studying Quenya in a place called Soul Twinkles in Athens (I couldn't believe my luck when I heard there was actually a place to learn, lol) and Sindarin I taught myself with some incredible courses I found right here! :grin:I have been studying elvish since 2002-and translating things ever since then! ;)


LAURELIN
Suilad! I've been enamored with the elvish languages for awhile now. Finally I decided to study Sindarin. I took the courses from Ardalambion, the course from Elvish.org (http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm), the course at Council of Elrond and have read David Salo's book "A Gateway to Sindarin". I've also poured over a variety of texts on it as well as scoured the web for any tidbits of use. I'm not as brilliant as Ithil yet, but I'm getting there with practice. ;)


We are mainly here to answer any questions you may have about Elvish (after all, it's the only way we can show of what we have learned) ;) So please don't hesitate to post a question or send either of us a PM!

[Wilwarin]

Main Language Forum Threads

We have many really helpful threads here. Don't worry if some of them haven't been updated in a while. We tend to have slow seasons in the Language Forum, but all the main threads listed here are still active, and we encourage you to please post in them! I give a brief summary of each thread in this forum so you can wade through instead of drown in all of it! lol


The Sindarin Thread (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=977) This is for discussion about Sindarin only. If you have a question, comment, or would just like to share your own Sindarin composition, do so here.

The Quenya Thread (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=980) The sister of The Sindarin Thread. Only Quenya discussions here.

Find Out What Your Name is in Elvish (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1409) This thread is where Ithildiel and Laurelin translate names into Elvish. Or, if you are writing a piece of fan fic and you need a good name for a character, just post the meaning you want the name to have and we will try to help you out. Just be sure to say whether you want the name to be feminine or masculine.
This thread is strictly for the translations of names. So if it doesn't have to do with names or their translations, please don't post here. NOTE: To avoid confusion please leave the translating of names in this thread to Ithildiel and Laurelin. We have had people try to "help" us before, but it just gets too confusing with four or five people all trying to translate the same name! Thanks!

Find Your Name in Rhohiric! (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?t=5917) This is a place where Elfdaughter will attempt to translate your name into Rhohiric. The same rules apply to this thread as to the Elvish Name thread above.


Ask For Elvish Phrases Here (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=839) Here is where Ithildiel and Laurelin try to translate phrases into Sindarin and Quenya. We welcome your ideas for phrases to translate! Or if you need a phrase for a fan fic or other project, please ask here. Be sure to mention if you want the phrase in Quenya or Sindarin.

Olde English (Also Known as Rhohiric) (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?t=4743) This thread is for discution about Old English or Rohiric. Ask for phrases to be translated, or post your own compositions. Or just ask a question about the grammar, or share about your learning experiences.

Post Suggestions and Links Here (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=935) This thread is full of links to other sites where you can learn all you need to know about the languages of Middle-earth. If you have a link to share please post it here.

Quenya Practice (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1126) This thread is a place where those who are learning Quenya can come and practice writing and phrasing. General questions/comments having to do with Quenya sould be posted in The Quenya Thread (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?t=980)

Sindarin Practice (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1136) Here is a place where those who are learning Sindarin can come and practice writing and phrasing. General questions/comments having to do with Sindarin should be posted in The Sindarin Thread (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?t=977)

Book of Elvish Phrases (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2645) In this thread are catagorized all the Elvish phrases that have been translated in "Ask for Elvish Phrases Here" for quick and easy reference. That way you won't have to wade through the other thread just to find the phrases! NOTE: This thread is closed to prevent users from posting. It is for reference only.

Cardh-e-Bethath: An Elvish Chit-Chat Thread (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2663) Talk about what ever you want here, as long as it related in some way to Tolkien's languages or this forum. Post suggestions, comments or tell us about your Elvish studies, or what ever. Just be sure that if you have a specific question regarding Elvish, please post it in one of the other appropriate threads. This thread is also used by the moderators to post news and updates regarding the Language Forum.

Elvish Pronunciation Guide (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4304) This thread contains a Sindarin Pronunciation Guide (by Wilwarin), as well as a Quenya Pronunciation Guide (by Ohtarien)! Very useful in explaining how to correctly speak the two dialects of Elvish. If you have any further questions on pronunciation, please ask them here.

Reliable Elvish Sites (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6274) This thread contains links to other sites that can teach you Elvish and Tengwar, plus has links to other interesting Tolkien sites, and lists sites to avoid when learning Tolkien Elvish. NOTE: This thead is closed to prevent users from posting. It is for reference only.





As of now those are the main threads. I'm sure there will be more in the future.

[Mánalinya]

If you own a PC (i.e., have a Windows program) this list shows how to quickly type the special characters frequently used in writing Quenya and Sindarin.

For the following, simply hold down "Alt" and press the numbers. Note that you must press the numbers on the number pad. (The little square-shaped cluster of numbers located at the right of the keyboard.)

Also, be aware that there are many different number combinations that produce the same character. (For example, ALT+154 and ALT+666 both produce Ü.)

You can also find the shortcut codes for many other symbols by clicking:
Start Menu/Programs/Accesories/System Tools/Character Map

á = 160
é = 130
í = 161
ó = 162
ú = 163

Á = 0193
É = 144
Í = 0205
Ó = 0211
Ú = 233


ä = 132
ë = 137
ï = 139
ö = 148
ü = 129

Ä = 142
Ë = 0203
Ï = 0207
Ö = 153
Ü = 154


â = 131
ê = 136
î = 140
ô = 147
û = 150

 = 0194
Ê = 0202
Î = 0206
Ô = 0212
Û = 234


ÿ = 152
ñ = 164
Ñ = 165


Æ = 146
æ = 145

[Wilwarin]

Special Charcter Shortcuts for Mac Users

An > means to hold down each key at the same time.

ˆ – option > i then the desired leter (lowercase or caps)
´ – option > e the the desired leter
¨ – option > u then the desired leter

(html does not allow for vowel marks to be placed over a 'y'. Instead do the following)

yˆ – y, then option > i then space
y´– y then option > e then space
ÿ – option > u then y

[Wilwarin]

1) Where can I learn Elvish/Find an Elvish dictionary?

This forum is not an Elvish study course, and we are not here to teach you the language; so please do not ask us to just "teach you" Elvish!

We have had many people ask us to explain Elvish grammar and sentence structure. We simply can't do this. Elvish (especially Quenya) is a very complex language and we cannot explain—in a forum—even a fraction of what you need to know! This forum is mainly so you can expand on your knowlege of Elvish, pick up a few phrases here and there and practice conversing with other speakers of the languages.

~To learn Elvish, and find links to many other Elvish-related sites such as forums and dictionaries, check out the excellent links posted in the Reliable Elvish Sites (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6274) thread!~

[Wilwarin]

2) What is Tengwar, and where can I learn to write it?

Tengwar is the writing system made by Tolkien to go along with his Elvish languages. It can also be used for writing in virtually all other languages, such as English, Norwegian, Russian, etc. (For an example of Tengwar, look under "Appendix E" in the Return of the King. You can't miss it - it's the curvy letters listed under "Tengwar." ;) )

~To learn how to write Tengwar, again look in the thread "Reliable Elvish Sites," where many excellent tutorials can be found. If you have a question concerning Tengwar or the Tengwar Fonts, please post it in the Tengwar Help (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6274) thread. ~

[Wilwarin]

3) How do you do the translations?

Whatever translations you see here in the Language Forum are translations done by the moderators and members of War of the Ring. They have studied Quenya/Sindarin, and use their learned knowledge of the languages to translate the requests into Elvish.

Name translations are done by looking up the meaning of a person's name (for example, David means "Beloved" in Hebrew) and then translating these elements into Elvish.

[Wilwarin]

4) What is the difference between Quenya and Sindarin?

Quenya is basically the "Latin" of Elvish languages. It is an ancient, very poetic and very beautiful, flowing language. By the time of the Lord of the Rings (which is the Third Age Quenya, used and studied most often), Quenya was used mainly as a ceremonial/poetic language. Quenya uses a lot of endings; there are endings for pronouns (I, you, mine, him), feminine and masculine endings, and also the famous (or infamous, depending on how you look at it lol ) Quenya case endings. (Cases are quite complicated; if interested, go to the Ardalambion (http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/index.html) course and read through the Quenya lessons 10-15 for a full explanation!)

Sindarin is the common language used by the Elves and the Men of Gondor in the third age. A very beautiful language (as can be heard in the LotR movies). It is fairly easy to learn and has easy to pronounce letter combinations. It uses pronominal verb endings as well as independent pronouns. It does not use masculine and feminine endings (except in names and titles), nor case endings. Though it does use a concept called Consonant Mutation that Quenya does not have. This is where the first consonant in a word is changed when certain conditions apply.

Quenya vs. Sindarin Checklist

You know it's Quenya if:

-there is a "qu" (Sindarin does not use "qu")
-there is an "ë" (Sindarin does not mark e's in this way)
-Quenya only ends in these five consonants: -l, -n, -r, -s, -t (And of course the word can end in -a, -i, -ë, -o, -u and be Quenya.) If a word ends in a different consonant than the above five, it must be Sindarin.

You know it's Sindarin if:

-there is a consonant cluster (two or more consonants) at the beginning of the word. For example, "Chithaeglir" must be Sindarin because Quenya cannot have more than one consonant at the beginning of a word.
-the word starts with a B or G. (Quenya words never start with B or G.)
-there is DH (Quenya does not have the cluster DH)
-there is AE (Quenya only has AI)
-there is a circumflex (â, ê, î, ô, û) (Quenya marks long vowels with accents instead; á, é, í, ó, ú. But note that Sindarin also uses these accent marks.)

[Wilwarin]

5) Which should I learn first; Quenya or Sindarin?

Each language has it's pros and cons. Both languages have their difficult aspects, and it is basically up to your own personal preference which you would like to learn. I recommend going with your instincts; read and listen to some Quenya and some Sindarin. (You can read Elvish here in the Language Forum, and listen to it on the LotR movies.) Get a feel for both, and decided which you like better; then you can start learning! (A good place to compare the languages is in The Book of Elvish Phrases (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6274) thread.)

Here are some pros and cons to each language:

Quenya

Pros: Very nice-looking, pretty-sounding. Fairly easy to get a handle on concepts such as how different verb tenses are formed, plural nouns, and other basics.
Cons: Case-endings are numerous and frequently complicated. The Quenya course at Ardalambion.com (http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/index.html) is very thorough, but also very long and sometimes confusing. Quenya is also not very good for casual talk; it is old and does not have very many "modern" words. (Although, most of the time you can get around this problem.)

Sindarin

Pros: A more conversational language; used much more often in the LotR movies than Quenya. Sindarin does not contain case endings or gender specific nouns (except in names).
Cons: Not quite as complete as Quenya (meaning there aren't as many words). Consonant mutation rules may seem complicated at first.

[Wilwarin]

6) What is the difference between "Tolkien" Elvish and the "fake Elvish" I keep hearing about?

Lately, many members have been pointing the moderators of the Language Forum to websites where Elvish lessons are offered, or Elvish dictionaries. Before you start learning and memorizing, make sure you are learning Tolkien Elvish! (You can do this by asking one of the mods to check it out for you.) Many sites have made up, or "loosely based," their Elvish on Tolkien's Elvish. This means that what you are learning is an Elvish that has been changed from Tolkien's original language. Avoid these sites if you want to learn the Elvish of Middle Earth!

Many internet sites (mainly RPG-based websites) try to create their own language and label it Elvish as well (grey-company.org (http://grey-company.org/Language/) for example). If you have found a site and question if it is true Tolkien Elvish (i.e., the very detailed languages that Tolkien invented, which are used in his books as well as the LotR movies), please ask one of the moderators of the forum and they will investigate to see if it is true Elvish or not.

Remember that there is a wealth of accurate information on the web already out there on Tolkien's Elvish, so check out our "Reliable Elvish Sites" thread or recommend other good sites to us by PM to a mod.

[Wilwarin]

7) Why should I get my name/phrase translated at WaroftheRing instead of using an instant-translator found online?

Another frequent question, the problem with instant-Quenya/Sindarin translators is that it is very hard to make the program 100% accurate. There are so many complicated rules, additions and deletions when putting together Elvish names that it is best to leave the job up to human intelligence. While these instant-translators are often fast, they also are not as flexible as human translators, who can give you different alternatives, the pronunciation, and add different endings and components which can personalize your name or phrase.

Of course, WaroftheRing is completely free, and the only thing we ask in return is courtesy and politeness when asking for translations; after all, we are volunteers and do translations simply because we enjoy helping others and love working with the Elvish languages.