Quenya Practice

[Isiltári]

This thread is intended to be a place for those who are learning Quenya to practice writing and phrasing, so that they may receive help, feedback and guidance.

General translation questions and other questions/comments pertaining to Quenya should be directed, as always, to "The Quenya Thread" in this forum.

Note: Because of the incredible scope and complexity of Quenya grammar, please do not expect to receive Quenya "lessons" or complex grammatical instruction in this thread or forum. Learning Quenya is up to you (and there are a number of helpful links in the "For those who want to learn Elvish..." thread)! :) :thumbs: :)

[Isiltári]

Posted by LeoWyatt:

The weather ones are good, to use them, i'd describe today as Anar síla I vilya ná luin.

An important note here:

The Quenya word for "and" is "ar" (pronounced as English "are", and remember to trill the "r" slightly), so the correct translation of that sentence would be:

Anar síla ar i vilya ná luin.
"The sun is shining and the sky is blue."

[LeoWyatt]

Cool, cheers, wasn't sure what the word for and was so just stuck em together, so now i know :) woohoo!

[LeoWyatt]

I vilya ná sinda ar Ulyëa.

How is that for a descrption of today? :)

[Wilwarin]

Hmm... That sounds like how it was earlyer this morning where I live. ;)

[Isiltári]

I vilya ná sinda ar Ulyëa.

Ooh! Almost perfect!!!!!!! Your structure is correct, just remember that "ulyëa" doesn't need to be capitalized unless it's the first word of the sentence.

:hooray: :thumbs: :hooray:

[LeoWyatt]

Argh, oh well, almost correct, should remember the capitalisation :) but cool thought that might be correct, here goes

Anar síla ar ná saiwa

[Isiltári]

That'll work. :thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Hey, Isil!

I made my first sentence; I looked over some of your previous since I have' nt learnt so much yet.

Nanyë Cuiel Rilwen Formeno

Does it make any sence? This is great fun...:cool: I love it!

[Isiltári]

Well done, Cuiel Rilwen of the North! ;)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Wooow! :hooray: :wave:

I'm not getting anything done besides this, think my husband will knock me over the head soon...:trout:

[LeoWyatt]

Here goes

Lesson 2 from the Elvish Course, bear with me :) Quenya to English

I - Willows -> tasari
J - Elves -> Eldar
K - The Kings -> Iarani
L - People -> lier
M - The horse under the willow -> I-rocco nu i-tasar
N - A maiden and a queen -> Vende ar tari
O - The queen and the maidens -> I-tari ar i-vender
P - The sun and the moon -> Anar ar Isil

[Isiltári]

I'm not quite sure why you're using dashes? The "dot" between the article and the noun was included sometimes, but not as a general rule, and in Helge's course, it is not used.

K. i arani (include space)
M. i rocco nu i tasar (no dots/dashes)
N. vendë ar tári (remember the accents)
O. i tári ar i vendi (accent on "tári", and plural of "vendë" is "vendi", not "vender" -- tricky, I know!)

Good job! Watch your accents and plurals.

[LeoWyatt]

Bummer! I have NO idea why there are dashes in there :( stupid silly things. The accents i didn't include becuase i couldn't remember how to get them on here :) Will try from now on though,

Here is my progress from lesson 3.

1. Translate into English:
A. Hendu
B. Atta hendi (and answer: what is the difference between this and hendu
above?)
C. Aldu
D. Atta aldar (and answer again: what is the difference between this and
Aldu above?)
E. Min¨e n´er ar min¨e n´is.
F. I sardi.
G. Talami.
H. Oronti.
2. Translate into Quenya:
I. Two ships (just any two ships that happen to be seen together)
J. Two ships (that happen to be sister ships)
K. Arms (the two arms of one person)
L. Two mountains (within the same range; Twin Peaks, if you like _ use a
dual form)
M. Double gate (use a dual form)
N. Two birds (that have formed a pair)
O. Two birds (just any two birds)
P. Men and women.

A. Eyes - pair of eyes?
B. Two eyes - two different eyes?
C. Trees. - pair of trees?
D. Two trees - two different trees?
E. One man and one woman
F. The stones
G. Floors
H. Mountains
I. Atta ciryat
J. Atta ciryau
K. rancu
L. Orontu
M. andu
N. 1. aiwëu
O. Atta aiwët
P. neri na nissi

[Isiltári]

A very good job! You've mistranslated a few though, so I'll show you the corrections and explain the answers.

Don't get discouraged! You're doing wonderfully -- I think many people find the dual endings a bit confusing when they first read lesson 3. If you'd like, after you read through this post, I can post some additional sample exercises for you to practice what you've learned (I made additional exercises for myself throughout many lessons of the course because I sometimes felt that I needed more practice than the 16 or so questions that are provided with each lesson). I would be more than happy to help you through the lessons -- it's fun for me, and I really enjoy helping people to learn!

Also, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Question:
I. Two ships (just any two ships that happen to be seen together)
Your answer:
I. Atta ciryat
Correct answer:
I. atta ciryar
Explanation:
In your answer, you used both "atta" signifying "two" and the dual -t ending, which signifies a pair. When referring to two of anything that are not a natural pair (examples of natural pairs include the two arms of one person, twin mountains, sister ships, etc.), you would simply use atta + the plural form of the noun. So in this case, "two ships" (not sister ships, just any two ships) would be atta + plural of cirya (ciryar) = "atta ciryar."

Question:
J. Two ships (that happen to be sister ships)
Your answer:
J. Atta ciryau
Correct answer:
J. ciryat
Explanation:
In this answer, you again used both "atta" signifying "two" and the dual ending -u (which in this case is not correct). Remember that if you are talking about a natural pair (two arms of one person, twin mountains, sister ships, etc.), you do not need to use the word for "two" -- the dual ending (-u or -t) explains that you are talking about two items occuring in a natural pair. Also, remember that -t is the preferred dual ending (unless a "d" or "t" has already appeared in the word, or unless you are talking about body parts, which typically take the -u ending). Therefore, "two ships" (sister ships) would be cirya + dual ending -t = "ciryat."

Question:
N. Two birds (that have formed a pair)
Your answer:
N. 1. aiwëu
Correct answer:
N. aiwet
Explanation:
Again, here you just need to remember that the dual ending -t is the preferred ending for words that do not already have a "d" or "t" in them, or for words that are not body parts. The answer here is aiwë + dual ending -t = "aiwet." Also note: when a diaresis (the two dots above the "e" in "aiwë" and other words) is used just to signify the end of a word, it is not used when an ending is added to that word (for example, "aiwët" would be incorrect; "aiwet" is correct).

Question:
O. Two birds (just any two birds)
Your answer:
O. Atta aiwët
Correct answer:
O. atta aiwi
Explanation:
Again, here you've used "atta" for "two" and a dual ending (-t). Since you're talking about two random birds, you would not use a dual ending here. You would simply use "atta" signifying "two" and add the plural form of aiwë. Therefore, the answer is atta + plural form of aiwë (aiwi) = "atta aiwi."

Question:
P. Men and women.
Your answer:
P. neri na nissi
Correct answer:
P. neri ar nissi
Explanation:
This looks like you've just made a simple mistake, using the copula "na" (is) instead of "ar" (and). Careful! ;)

[LeoWyatt]

Ah cool, cheers :) the last one was a silly mistake, i should have spotted it.

I agree the endings are a bit of a killer, but i'm quite pleased with my progress. If you can post some extra exercises that would be grand :)

[Isiltári]

I'll do that for you when I return from shopping this afternoon. :) :thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Hi, Isil! I would sure like to do those exercises as well! After we've sent our replies, would you send the keys in a personal message, so that none of us can read them until we're done?

[Isiltári]

Cuiel:

Well, those who are learning as well (but perhaps not posting) might benefit from seeing the explanations, etc. in the forum, so I think the best thing to do will be to post in this topic. Make sense?

The exercises (particularly for the earlier chapters) are pretty brief and simple -- just a little additional practice) -- so they should only take a few minutes to complete. Just check back when you're ready to post your responses, and don't peek. ;)

Let's try it this way and see how it works -- I want this practice to benefit as many people as possible -- including you! :)

Here are the exercises for chapters 2 - 3:

Translate into Quenya:
1. two eyes (natural pair)
2. one man and two women (any two women)
3. a man under a willow
4. the maiden under the two trees (twin trees)
5. a queen and two maidens (any two maidens)
6. one stone and two mountains (any two mountains)
7. the birds under the sun
8. two Elves (any two Elves)
9. two arms (of the same person)
10. two arms (of different people)
11. two horses under the moon (any two horses)
12. one gate
13. two ships (any two ships)
14. two ships (sister ships) under the sun
15. a king and a people

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Ofcourse, that didn't cross my mind! But then there's you again, the foreseeing mind! I'll be back this afternoon, and i promise not to peek!:grin:

[Isiltári]

Lol......I'll look forward to your post. :thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Taking a deep breath...

1. Hendu
2. Minë nér ar atta nissi
3. Nér nu tasar
4. I vendë nu (i) aldu
5. Tari ar atta vendi
6. Minë sar ar atta oronti
7. I aiwi nu Anar
8. Atta eldar
9. Rancu
10. Atta rancor
11. Atta roccor nu Isil
12. Minë ando
13. Atta ciryar
14. Ciryat nu Anar
15. Aran ar lië

Phhh. I stumled a bit on the indefinet article, before I remembered it is not used.

[Isiltári]

Excellent!!!!!

Just two quick notes:

On #4, you would use the article "i." It's not optional as plain old "aldu" is not a proper name.

On #5, Remember the accent on "tári."

Really, really good job! :thumbs:

What lesson did you say you were on? I can provide additional exercises for the other lessons as well.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

:whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo:

That's so great and this is so much fun! About the appostrofs; should I put them up all the time? I'm on lesson five. I feel I have to read them lots of times, especially because I have to translate them into norwegian in my notes.

[Isiltári]

I'm not sure what you mean about the apostrophes?

The lessons do take re-reading sometimes and some good study -- especially the later lessons. But you're doing great, and so is Leo. :thumbs:

I'll post some additional exercises for you a bit later -- to cover lessons 4 and 5.

Namárië!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I mean like when writing, there are different ways of showing the reader where the stress should be. In the lesson about stress, there isn't always dots where it should be, especially in the words with more than two syllables. But maybe that is intentional, so the student doesn't have to easy a job on finding out where to put them. The stress, that is. Am I making any sence?

[Isiltári]

Well, the rules are pretty cut and dried for where the stress should be (review Lesson One if you start to get confused), so it's really just a matter of memorizing the rules for where to place emphasis on the words.

And as you know, the accents refer to the sound of the letters they mark, not the stress. ;)

I'll be back in a few minutes to post exercises for lessons 4 & 5 for you.

And Leo! Where did you go! ;)

[Isiltári]

Following are some homemade additional exercises for study through Lesson 4.

*Note: I will generally include the copula "ná (nar)," but remember that it is optional.

A. Translate to Quenya:

1.The two men are evil.
2. Kings and queens are mighty and wise.
3. The beautiful queen is under the willow.
4. The big tree is black.
5. The white bird is beautiful.
6. Two maidens are under the trees.
7. A king is mighty.
8. The beautiful stars are under the moon. (star = elen)
9. The bright star is white.
10. One king is wise and one queen is beautiful.
11. The women are evil.
12. The black tree is dead.
13. The gate is big.
14. Two arms are white. (two arms of one person)
15. The horse is red.
16. Three birds are under the tree.
17. A black bird is under the dead tree.
18. The floors are white.
19. The sun is bright and beautiful.
20. Two eyes are beautiful. (two eyes of one person).

B. Translate to English:
1. Minë oron ná nu Anar.
2. Atta mori sardi nar nu i oron.
3. Eldar nar sailë ar vanyë.
4. Eldar nar saila ar vanya lië.
5. I neri nar úmië ar i nissi nar vanyë.
6. I ninquë cirya ná vanya ar ná nu Isil.
7. I morë ando ná úmëa.
8. I aldar nar firini.
9. I alda ar i ando nar mori.
10. I sardi nar mori.
11. I orontu nar altë.
12. I atta roccor nar taurë.
13. I calimë eleni nar vanyë.
14. I nér ar nís nar sailë.
15. I aran ar i rocco nar nu Anar.
16. I vanyë vendi nar úmië.
17. I Elda ná nu i eleni.

[Isiltári]

Following are some homemade additional exercises for study through Lesson 5.

A. Translate to Quenya:

1. The wisest woman is reading the book.
2. The great mountains are lying under the sun.
3. A black stone is lying under the willow.
4. The most evil dwarf is summoning the king.
5. The wise Elf is reading the red book.
6. The mighty queen is watching the men.
7. The fat dwarves are eating.
8. Two dead men are lying under the trees.
9. An evil dwarf is seizing the mighty elf.
10. The king and the queen are wise.

B. Translate to English:
1. Atta mori roccor mátar.
2. I neri lindëar.
3. I taurë neri tírar i canta Naucor.
4. I analtë ciryar nar ninqui.
5. Neldë mori aiwi nar firini.
6. I neri lalëar ar i nissi mátar.
7. I anvanya vendë lindëa nu Isil.
8. Úmië neri tírar i Eldar.
9. Ninquë aiwë lindëa.
10. I neldë carni aiwi lindëar.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Hi, teach! Phew, how slow everything is today! Waited for something that seemed like hours to get on the board. Thanks for the lessons, they are great! See you later!:)

[Isiltári]

I'll wait for your answers! I'm sure you'll do a great job. :gofatty:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya! Lesson 4 comming up...

01. I atta néri nar umië.
02. Arani ar tarir nár taurë ar sailë.
03. I vanya tári na nú i tasar.
04. I alta alda na morë.
05. I ninquë aiwa na vanya.
06. Atta vendi nar nu i aldar.
07. Aran na taura.
08. I vanyë eleni nar nu Isil.
09. I calima elen na ninquë.
10. Minë aran na saila ar minë tári na vanya.
11. I nisse nar umië.
12. I morë alda na firin.
13. I ando na alta.
14. Rancu nar ninqui.
15. I rocco na carnë.
16. Neldë aiwar nar nu i alda.
17. I morë na aiwa na nu i firin alda.
18. I talami nar ninqui.
19. Anar na calima na vanya.
20. Hendu nar vanyë.

01. A mountain is under the sun.
02. Two black stones are under the mountain.
03. Elves are wise and beautiful.
04. The elves are a wise and beautiful people.
05. The men are evil and the women ae beautiful.
06. The white ship is beautiful and is under the moon.
07. The black gate is evil.
08. The trees are dead.
09. The tree and the gate are black.
10. The stones are black.
11. The mountains are big.
12. The two horses are mighty.
13. The shining stars are beautiful.
14. The man and the woman are wise.
15. The king and the horse are under the sun.
16. The beautiful maidens are evil.
17. The elves are under the stars.

I'm remembering the words better and better, but the grammar still needs a lot of rereading. I'm in the prossess of translating the essence of chapter 5 into norwegian, since it gets too difficoult to read it over and over, I keep stopping cuz I don't remember the meaning of the the english grammar terminology . This post got faaar to long, I'm topling over and into bed. :snooze: A harya melwa lóme! Ps: can we have some on the "dots"? Need some info there.

[Isiltári]

A very, very good job!

There are a few things you need to remember (same mistakes throughout the exercises):
1. The copula "ná" has an accent.....the plural "nar" does not. Remember to include the accent for ná, and leave it out for nar.
2. Remember that "úmëa" (plural: úmië) has an accent.
3. Remember that "tári" (plural: tárir) always has an accent.
4. "Nu" does not have an accent (you added one in question A.3.).

I won't correct the individual answers with just those accent mark mistakes -- just make a mental note to yourself to remember the accents. :thumbs:

Question:
A.16. Three birds are under the tree.
Your answer:
A.16. Neldë aiwir nar nu i alda.
Correct answer:
A.16. Neldë aiwi nar nu i alda.
Explanation
Remember that nouns ending in -ë form their plurals in -i, so the plural of aiwë is aiwi.

Question:
A.17. A black bird is under the tree.
Your answer:
A.17. I morë na aiwa na nu i firin alda.
Correct answer:
A.17. Morë aiwë ná nu i firin alda.
Explanation
Since we are talking about "a" black bird, instead of a specific bird, you wouldn't use the definite article "i". I'm not quite sure why you used "ná" twice, but it looks like a typo. ;)

Question:
A.19. The sun is bright and beautiful.
Your answer:
A.19. Anar na calima na vanya.
Correct answer:
A.19. Anar ná calima ar vanya.
Explanation
Oops! Remember to use "ar" for "and," and not throw in an extra "ná!."

Question:
B.1. Minë oron ná nu Anar.
Your answer:
B.1. A mountain is under the sun.
Correct answer:
B.1. One mountain is under the sun.
Explanation
Careful! ;)

Question:
B.13. I calimë eleni nar vanyë.
Your answer:
B.13. The shining stars are beautiful.
Correct answer:
B.13. The bright stars are beautiful.
Explanation
Calima means "bright," not shining......"shining" is actually sílala, which is an active participle, which you won't get to until lesson 9 or 10, I believe. ;)

Question:
B.14. I nér ar nís ar sailë.
Your answer:
B.14. The man and the woman are wise.
Correct answer:
B.14. The man and woman are wise.
Explanation
Here, the article "i" is used for both the man and the woman, so there would be no second "the" used in the translation.

Question:
B.17. I Elda ná nu i eleni.
Your answer:
B.17. The elves are under the stars.
Correct answer:
B.17. The Elf is under the stars.
Explanation
Singular: one Elf, and singular form of copula: ná.


Excellent, excellent! On to the Lesson 5 exercises for you! :gofatty:

Oh, and what additional information did you need regarding the "dots?"

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Good morning! Guess I was messing with the na/ar last night, obviously not the best time of the day to do exercises! (Any better excuses?)

With "dots" I ment the accents! We don't use them at all in norwegian, so I'm almost blank on what they mean and where to put them. I have understood that they go above vowels to indicate stress, but to me it seems like this isn't always done . I copied the "dotlist" which someone posted a while ago, so I know how to type them. And Quenya seems to be swarming with accents! I have also seen that the final -e is dotted to indicate that it should be spoken. But then I've seen an î that I have no comprehension of. It is als on the dotlist above other vowels, but I can't say I've noticed any of them in any text. Wait, I think I can remember that I once saw an -û, what does that mean? Do f. ex. ó have other meanings than just stress?

Where did Leo Wyatt go? Can we get him back into action?

[Isiltári]

Lol! That was quite a post!

I'll give you a very simple answer to your questions: In Quenya, the "dots" very simply usually mark either a vowel at the end of the word that ought to be pronounced, or a vowel in the middle of a word that needs to be pronounced.

For example, in the phrase, "the maiden is singing," translated "i vendë lindëa,"... the "dots" mark the very end of the word "vendë," noting that it should be pronounced, and should not be just sort of forgotten at the end of that word. Additionally, the "dots" also signify in the word "lindëa" that the "e" in that word should be individually pronounced, and not forgotten -- reminding the reader that the word is pronounced LIN-deh-ah. Though the accent (emphasis) of the word "lindëa" is on the first syllable of the word, the "dots" show that the "ë" syllable of the word should not be forgotten.

Does that make sense? :)

[Isiltári]

Oh...additionally....if you're seeing an â, ê, î, ô, or û, then you're probably not reading "3rd Age Quenya," in which these symbols are rarely if ever used.

Remember that the accents in Quenya do not necessarily denote emphasis or stress, but sound. Example: an " í " in Quenya would sound like the English "i" in "machine", while an unaccented "i" in Quenya would sound like the English "hit."

Emphasis is ALWAYS denoted in Quenya by syllable. If, for example, the second to last syllable includes an accented vowel, such as Elentári, in which the second to last syllable is LONG (accented), then the emphasis should fall on that syllable (el-en-TAR-ih). If the second to last syllable should include a dipthong (such as "ai") as in the word lantaina, the emphasis should fall on the that syllable (lan-TAI-nah). ALSO, if the second to last syllable should include a consonant cluster (such as "ld") just before the last syllable, as in the word "Eldameldo", the accent shall fall on that syllable, resulting in (el-da-MEL-do). In any other case, the accent should fall on the third to last syllable, such as in the word "vestalë" (VES-tah-leh.).

Does that make sense? :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Yes, definetly! I've read the lesson on stress many times, so I feel confident that I don't make to many mistakes there..that is if I think before I speak! (To myself, since there are nobody else around who will give me a sensible answere.) And I knew the part about the -e in the end of the word. But the bit about the -i was completely new to me. I still wonder if one always is supposed to have an accent on the vowel of the syllable that receives the stress? When I read the texts I can't seem to find them in all the places they would naturally belong.

I'm gonna read lesson 5 a few times in norwegian before I do the exercises that belongs to it.

Namárie!

[Isiltári]

Accents can appear in different places in the word, but the rules for emphasis and stress remain the same whether an accent exists or not -- unless the accent falls on the second-to-last syllable, it does not indicate where the stress should go in a word.

For example, in the word "tárienna" the stress falls on the "e", not the "á," because there is a consonant cluster (double consonant, in this case) just after the second-to-last syllable.

The accents indicate the length of the vowel, the sound, not where the stress should go (unless the accent falls on the second-to-last syllable).

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Now I'm getting there...eventually! What would I have done without you! I sure as heck would have been getting the wrong answeres from me..!

[Isiltári]

Awww, you're doing wonderfully! :hooray:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Heeello,there! Wow, that was a long downtime! And would you believe it, when it's finally up, we have troubble with the lines up here! My bet is that some lame person dug through some cable instead of looking at the maps first..it won't be the fist time!
pfbbt Here goes lesson five.

English to elvish:

01. I assaila nís na cendëa i parma.
02. I alta oronti nar caitëar nu Anar.
03. Minë(?) morë sar na caitëa nu (i) tasar.
04. I anumëa nauco na tultëa (i) Aran.
05. I saila elda na cendëa i carnë parma.
06. I taura tári na tíra i neri.
07. I tiucër naucor nar mátar.
08. Atta firini neri nar caitëar nu (i) aldar.
09. Minë umëa nauco na mapëa i taura elda.
10. I aran ar tári nar sailë.

Elvish to english:

01. Two black horses are eating.
02. The men are singing.
03. The mighty men are guarding the four dwarves.
04. The biggest ships are white.
05. Three black birds are dead.
06. The men are laughing and the women are eating.
07. The most beautiful maidens are singing under the moon.
08. Evil men are guarding the elves.
09. White birds are singing.
10. The three red birds are singing.

I stumbled very profoundly on the verbs in my first exercises, so I'm looking forward to seeing how I did on this one! I'm also still battling over the article in the end of sentences. And I have a couple of question; am I to use "minë" for both "one" and "a"? And what is the difference between the two whites, "ninquë" and "fána"? Hope our lines stay up!:thumbs:

[Isiltári]

Hi there! Well, you've done a good job, but there are a couple of things that need explaining. ;)

First, I'll answer your questions:
1. Am I to use "minë" for both "one" and "a"?
No...minë only signifies "one", as in "one book" as opposed to "two books," etc. There is no indefinite article (such as "a") in Quenya.

To say "a book," you would simply write "parma." To say "one book," you would say "minë parma." To say "the book," you would say "i parma." Make sense? :)

2.And what is the difference between the two whites, "ninquë" and "fána"?
Ninquë is used to describe generally anything as "white." Fána generally refers to the whiteness of clouds, so it would be best to use ninquë unless you're referring to white clouds.

Okay, on to the exercises...

A couple of things you need to remember:

1. The Quenya present tense translates roughly to the English "is...-ing" construction. There is no need to use the copula ná (or nar) when using the Quenya present tense form of the verb, since the "is/are" is already included in the translation.
Examples:
The woman is laughing.
I nís lalëa. (NOT: i nís ná lalëa).
The men are reading.
I neri cendëar. (NOT: i neri nar cendëar).

If you'd like more practice with this section, I can make up some new exercises for you. Just let me know. You're doing great! :thumbs:

Question:
A.1. The wisest woman is reading the book.
Your answer:
A.1. I assaila nís ná cendëa i parma.
Correct answer:
A.1. I assaila nís cendëa i parma.
Explanation:
Copula "ná" is not used here, since Quenya present tense includes "is/are" in translation.

Question:
A.2. The great mountains are lying under the sun.
Your answer:
A.2. I alta oronti nar caitëar nu Anar.
Correct answer:
A.2. I altë oronti caitëar nu Anar.
Explanation:
Remember that the adjective must agree in number with the noun it modifies. Since "oronti" is plural, "alta" must be too, which results in altë oronti. Also, copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.3. A black stone is lying under the willow.
Your answer:
A.3. Minë(?) morë sar ná caitëa nu (i) tasar.
Correct answer:
A.3. Morë sar caitëa nu i tasar.
Explanation:
Minë is not used, since you're describing a stone, not one stone. Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above). Also, you would definitely use the definite article "i", since you are talking about the willow.

Question:
A.4. The most evil dwarf is summoning the king.
Your answer:
A.4. I anumëa nauco ná tultëa (i) Aran.
Correct answer:
A.4. I anúmëa Nauco tultëa i aran.
Explanation:
Remember that úmëa always has an accent. Also, remember that words such as Elda and Nauco are considered proper nouns and should be capitalized. Aran is not capitalized. Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.5. The wise Elf is reading the red book.
Your answer:
A.5. I saila elda ná cendëa i carnë parma.
Correct answer:
A.5. I saila Elda cendëa i carnë parma.
Explanation:
Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.6. The mighty queen is watching the men.
Your answer:
A.6. I taura tári ná tíra i neri.
Correct answer:
A.6. I taura tári tíra i neri.
Explanation:
Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.7. The fat dwarves are eating.
Your answer:
A.7. I tiucër naucor nar mátar.
Correct answer:
A.7. I tiucë Naucor mátar.
Explanation:
The plural of "tiuca" is "tiucë," so there is no need to add an "r" -- the -ë ending pluralizes the word and allows it to agree in number with the plural noun "Naucor." Remember to capitalize "Nauco/Naucor." Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.8. Two dead men are lying under the trees.
Your answer:
A.8. Atta firini neri nar caitëar nu (i) aldar.
Correct answer:
A.8. Atta firini neri caitëar nu i aldar.
Explanation:
Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above). Also, the definite article "i" would definitely be used here since you are talking about the trees.

Question:
A.9. An evil dwarf is seizing the mighty elf.
Your answer:
A.9. Minë umëa nauco ná mapëa i taura elda.
Correct answer:
A.9. Úmëa Nauco mapëa i taura Elda.
Explanation:
Minë is not used, since you're describing a Dwarf, not one Dwarf. Remember that úmëa always has an accent. Remember to capitalize "Nauco/Naucor/Elda/Eldar/Atan/Atani." Copula "ná" is not used here (see notes above).

Question:
A.10. The king and the queen are wise.
Your answer:
A.10. I aran ar tári nar sailë.
Correct answer:
A.10. I aran ar i tári nar sailë.
Explanation:
Remember to translate "the" each time it appears.

Question:
B.7. I anvanya vendë lindëa nu Isil.
Your answer:
B.7. The most beautiful maidens are singing under the moon.
Correct answer:
B.7. The most beautiful maiden is singing under the moon.
Explanation:
The subject, verb and adjective in this sentence are singular.

Question:
B.8. Ninquë aiwë lindëa.
Your answer:
B.8. White birds are singing.
Correct answer:
B.8. A white bird is singing.
Explanation:
The subject, verb and adjective in this sentence are singular.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

'morning, Isil! This last one was really an eyeopener! I would love to have more exercises, they make me learn a lot faster! I'm still having trouble with the lines though, they went down again wile I was posting yesterday, so I didn't log off and probably seems to have been browsing all night! See you later!

Namárië!

[Isiltári]

All right then, I'll try to make up some new exercises and post them for you tonight or tomorrow. :)

Namárië!

[Isiltári]

Here you are, Cuiel. More exercises for study up to and including Lesson 5. Good luck! :gofatty:

A. Translate to Quenya:

1. A black horse and two white horses are lying under a tree.
2. The woman is watching the mighty ship.
3. The fat Dwarves are eating under the mountain.
4. A beautiful queen and a maiden are laughing.
5. Under the bright moon, the Elf is singing.
6. Two horses are eating and one man is watching the horses.
7. The dead birds are lying under the tree.
8. The black gate is great and evil.
9. The wise king is reading a book.
10. The Dwarves are seizing the Elf.
11. The mighty king is summoning the queen.
12. Three black stones and two white stones are lying under the great trees.
13. The white trees (twin trees) are under the moon.
14. The beautiful maiden is summoning the man.
15. The Elf and the Dwarf are laughing.

B. Translate to English:

1. I vanya carnë aiwë lindëa.
2. I neri tírar i úmië Naucor.
3. Canta oronti caitëar nu Anar.
4. Nauco máta ar Elda lalëa.
5. I lier tírar i oronti.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya! Thanks, hopefully I'll be back later. Still pc- trouble, posting this from work!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Hullo! Hope I stay up long enough to post, have to hurry!

a01. Morë rocco ar atta ninqui roccor caitëar nu alda.
a02. I nís tíra i taura cirya.
a03. I tiucë Naucor matar nu i oron.
a04. Vanya tári ar vendë lalëar.
a05. Nu i calima Isil, i Elda lindëa.
(Here comes the article again, but in front of the adjective.
Should the word order be different, perhaps "Isil calima",
or maybe just "calima Isil", without the article?)
a06. Atta roccor matar ar minë nér tíra i roccor.
a07. I firini aiwi caitëar nu i alda.
a08. I morë ando na alta ar úmëa.
a09. I saila aran cendëa parma.
a10. I Naucor mapëar i Elda.
a11. I taura aran tultëa i tári.
a12. Neldë mori sardi ar atta ninqui sardi caitëar nu i altëa
aldar.
a13. I ninqui aldu nar nu Isil.
(Should the twin trees have an article in front? I mean,
since they are very particular trees, am I to understand
the term as a real name, and drop the "i"?)
a14. I vanya vendë tultëa i nér.
a15. I Elda ar i Nauco lalëar.

b01. The beautiful, red bird is singing.
b02. The men are watching the evil dwarves.
b03. Four mountains lie under the sun.
b04. The dwarf is eating and the elf is laughing.
b05. The people are watching the mountains.

I think maybe I'm ready to move on to lesson 6 now. Wouldn't have been without your help, though, thanks a million! :grin: To bad Leo didn't come back, though, it would have been great to have some more posts on this thread!

Namárië!

[Isiltári]

:hooray: :hooray: :hooray:

You are definitely ready to move on to Lesson Six!!!!!!! The mistakes you've made in these exercises are very small, mostly accents and such. Congratulations! You did a great job!!!

Hopefully Leo will come back soon and start up studies again. :)

Question
A3. The fat Dwarves are eating under the mountain.
Your answer:
A.3. I tiucë Naucor matar nu i oron.
Correct answer:
A.3. I tiucë Naucor mátar nu i oron.
Explanation:
Remember the accent on "mátar" -- the stem-vowel is lengthened for primary verbs in the Quenya present tense.

Question
A5. Under the bright Moon, the Elf is laughing.
Your answer:
A.5. Nu i calima Isil, i Elda lindëa.
Correct answer:
A.5. Nu calima Isil, i Elda lindëa.
Explanation:
Your question:
"Here comes the article again, but in front of the adjective.
Should the word order be different, perhaps "Isil calima",
or maybe just "calima Isil", without the article?"
The article would be left out entirely, even with this word order. Since you are talking about the moon, which in Quenya never requires the definite article "i", you would leave out the article, whether there was an adjective included or not. "Nu calima Isil" definitely translates to "Under the bright Moon" -- no change in word order is necessary. That was a tricky one! ;)

Question
A6. Two horses are eating and one man is watching the horses.
Your answer:
A6. Atta roccor matar ar minë nér tíra i roccor.
Correct answer:
A6. Atta roccor mátar ar minë nér tíra i roccor.
Explanation:
Remember the accent on "mátar" -- the stem-vowel is lengthened for primary verbs in the Quenya present tense.

Question
A8. The black gate is great and evil.
Your answer:
A8. I morë ando na alta ar úmëa.
Correct answer:
A8. I morë ando ná alta ar úmëa.
Explanation:
Remember the accent on the copula "ná."

Question
A12. Three black stones and two white stones are lying under the great trees.
Your answer:
A12. Neldë mori sardi ar atta ninqui sardi caitëar nu i altëa
aldar.
Correct answer:
A12. Neldë mori sardi ar atta ninqui sardi caitëar nu i altë aldar.
Explanation:
The plural of "alta" is "altë.".......It looks like your extra "a" on "altë" might have been a typo.

Question
B3. Canta oronti caitëar nu Anar.
Your answer:
B3. Four mountains lie under the sun.
Correct answer:
B3. Four mountains are lying under the sun.
Explanation:
Oops! "Lie" is an entirely different tense (the aorist).....remember that the Quenya present tense translates to the English "is...-ing" construction.....so caitëar translates to "are lying."

Regarding your question on #13:
A13. I ninqui aldu nar nu Isil.
"Should the twin trees have an article in front? I mean,
since they are very particular trees, am I to understand
the term as a real name, and drop the "i"?"
Unless you are talking about the Twin Trees of Valinor, I think "aldu" need not be capitalized, and can simply refer to a pair of trees.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aaaaw, I'm so happy I got through this lesson, and even finally understood it! :hooray: I'm telling you, the "-ing" thing doesn't excist in norwegian, so I'm likely to make more of those, please excuse me in advance! The accents seems to be improving as well, allthough I still leave some of them out. I've just started reading lesson six, it seems to be less complicated than the previous one.:huh: Sure hope you don't feel that this is tomuch of a fuzz, with all the extra lessons and all, 'cause I'm having a great time!:thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

AAAARRRGGHHHH how could I ever have thought the next lesson would be easy...the could haves and might bes are killing my soft brain...oh yes! Off to the prancing pony! Is it possible that you have additional excersises for this one as well? Think I'm gonna ned them...

[Isiltári]

Lol....I'll be happy to make some exercises for you after you've had a chance to study the lesson and learn the vocab.

If you have questions, just ask. :)

Don't get discouraged........it starts getting more complicated, but you can do it; just take your time. :thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I'm done with lesson six! It actually wasn't that tough, when I had sorted out the "grey stuff". I managed the exercises with only two mistakes! Do you have some more for me?

I've just come home from a party, with all the parents from my sons kindergarden. Good food and good laughs! Mostly my kind of people, except for one boring woman, actually the youngest one there. I've got a hole right through my brain from politely lisitening to her jabber on. Say, Isil, how far out through the classes were you when you managed to construct some real sentences? I've got a nice poem I would like to translate, but I haven't learned enough to do it. Can't find all the words in my lists either.

Rolling over on my bed, se you 'round :shhh:

[Isiltári]

Good, good! I'll make some exercises for you today and try to post them this evening. :)

[Isiltári]

Oops, I forgot to answer your question........I suppose I was able to construct simple sentences as soon as Lesson Five (if that's the lesson with the copula ná [nar]). As far as more complex sentences go, I guess that takes more time. Since you only learn certain grammatical aspects with each lesson, there's really only so much you can confidently construct......but don't worry. The more you learn and the more you are able to say, the more exciting it gets. :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Actually I made a few simple sentences, which I have translated. Would you mind terribly to look over them and correct any mistakes? Just say no if you dont feel up to it, I'd understand that!

[Isiltári]

Post them, post them! I'll post additional exercises for you by later tonight.

Namárië!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Ok, here goes:

01. Elrond na i assaila elda.
Elrond is the wisest elf.
02. Legolas ar Gimli caitanë ar lindanë nu i alta tasar.
Legolas and Gimli were lying and singing under the big
willow. (not sure about this one...)
03. Boromir mátar nahta apsa.
Boromir is eating a piece of meat.
04. I vendë hirnë i roccor nu i tasar.
The maiden found the horses under the willow.
05. Arwen harya vanyë, luini hendu.
Arwen has beautiful, blue eyes.
06. Gadriel harya taura harma.
Galadriel owns a mighty treasure.
07. Bilbo tencë parma.
Bilbo wrote a book.

hearnoevil See you tomorrow. Namárië!

[Isiltári]

Wonderful, wonderful! :hooray: :hooray: :hooray:

A note about the names.....as most of these names are not strictly Quenya, they may not be "correctly used" in the strictest sense. However, personally, I think it's fine to use them.

I'll just mark the corrections in red, and offer an explanation if necessary.

01. Elrond ná i assaila Elda.
Elrond is the wisest elf.
02. Legolas ar Gimli caitaner ar lindaner nu i alta tasar.
Legolas and Gimli were lying and singing under the big
willow. (not sure about this one...)
Remember the plurals! ;)
03. Boromir máta_ apsa.
Boromir is eating a piece of meat.
You included an "r" at the end of "máta," which I deleted, since "Boromir" is singular, not plural. Also, let's just stick with "Boromir is eating meat" for now. ;)
04. I vendë hirnë i roccor nu i tasar.
The maiden found the horses under the willow.
05. Arwen harya vanyë, luini hendu.
Arwen has beautiful, blue eyes.
You happened to used the aorist tense here (which is learned in Lesson 7) -- did you skip ahead? ;) Aorist would translate to "owns" as opposed to the present/continuous tense "is owning." However, you did use it correctly!
06. Galadriel harya taura harma.
Galadriel owns a mighty treasure.
Again, you've used the aorist tense! :)
07. Bilbo tencë parma.
Bilbo wrote a book.

[Isiltári]

Additional exercises for study up to and including Lesson Six:

A. Translate to Quenya:

1. The beautiful woman laughed.
2. The Dwarf jumped, and the Elf watched.
3. The wise kings wrote five books.
4. The stars shone, and the sun rose.
5. The queen owned a white book.
6. The queen loved the mighty king.
7. The men ate and the women laughed.
9. The white horse jumped under the trees.
10. The man saw the beautiful maiden.
11. The woman found the horse under the great willow.
12. Two maidens wrote two books.
13. The queen summoned the Dwarf.
14. The man rose, and the women sang.
15. The evil man laughed.

B. Translate to English:

1. I arani manter.
2. I vanya elen sillë.
3. I taura aran tultanë neldë Eldar.
4. I tári mapanë i Nauco.
5. I Elda cendanë i carnë parma.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Thanks, Isil!!! I must admit I haven't read lesson 7 yet, and I'm likely to mix the two present forms in the future as well. We don't have the -ing in Norway, so this is not beause I'm such a fast reader! Buuut I suppose I'll get the hang of it...:grin:

[Isiltári]

A good way to remember when to use the present/continuous tense (example: A leaf is falling) as opposed to the aorist tense (example: A leaf falls), is to think of the present tense as something that is happening right now and is still going on.

Just a tip! :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I know, I keep forgetting. Have to think in two languages to make this work. I'll be back later.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Good morning!
Here comes my exercises:

A 01. I vanya nís lalanë.
A 02. I nauco campë, ar i Elda cennë.
A 03. I sailë arani tencër lempë parmar.
A 04. I eleni sillër ar Anar ortanë.
A 05. I tári haryanë ninquë parma.
A 06. I tári mellë i taura aran.
A 07. I néri mantër ar i nisse lalanër.
A 08. I ninque rocco campë nu i aldar.
A 09. I nér cennë i vanya vendë.
A 10. I nís hirnë i rocco nu i alta tasar.
A 11. Atta vendi tencër atta parmar.
A 12. I tári tultanë i Nauco.
A 13. I nér ortanë ar i nís lindanë.
A 14. I umëa nér lalanë.

B 01. The kings ate.
B 02. The beautiful star shone.
B 03. The mighty king summoned three elves.
B 04. The queen watched the dwarf.
B 05. The elf saw the red book.

I'm not quite sure whether I still should use "ë" in plural verbs, when its no longer final. And i'm also wondering, in basic verbs, if the long vowel it gets in the present tense should stay in future tense, or become short again? There's som rule about the vowel being short when followed by more than one consonant, but I can't find anything on this.

Well, I'm off! Tudeluu!

[Isiltári]

Excellent, excellent!!!!!!!!!! :hooray:

You've done a great job and you definitely seem ready for Lesson Seven. Here are your (very minor) corrections:

Question:
A.2. The Dwarf jumped, and the Elf watched.
Your answer:
I nauco campë, ar i Elda cennë.
Correct answer:
I Nauco campë, ar i Elda cennë.
Explanation:
Remember to capitalize proper names!

Question:
A.3. The wise kings wrote five books.
Your answer:
I sailë arani tencër lempë parmar.
Correct answer:
I sailë arani tencer lempë parmar.
Explanation:
When making a word like "tencë" plural, the dieresis is no longer needed (plural = tencer). The dieresis is generally used to indicate that individual vowels ought to be pronounced....that's why, in the present tense formations (such as "lindëa," or plural "lindëar," the dieresis is still used -- it is showing that two vowels next to each other should be individually pronounced. You'll notice that it is not used with dipthongs, as those generally count as one syllable.

Question:
A.4. The stars shone, and the sun rose.
Your answer:
I eleni sillër ar Anar ortanë.
Correct answer:
I eleni siller ar Anar ortanë.
Explanation:
See explanation of dieresis above.

Question:
A.7. The men ate and the women laughed.
Your answer:
I néri mantër ar i nisse lalanër.
Correct answer:
I néri manter ar i nissi lalaner.
Explanation:
Remember, plural of nís is "nissi." Also, see explanation of dieresis above.

Question:
A.8. The white horse jumped under the trees.
Your answer:
I ninque rocco campë nu i aldar.
Correct answer:
I ninquë rocco campë nu i aldar.
Explanation:
Oops! Remeber the dieresis. :)

Question:
A.11. Two maidens wrote two books.
Your answer:
Atta vendi tencër atta parmar.
Correct answer:
Atta vendi tencer atta parmar.
Explanation:
See explanation of dieresis above.

Question:
A.14. The evil man laughed.
Your answer:
I umëa nér lalanë.
Correct answer:
I úmëa nér lalanë.
Explanation:
Remember the accent in úmëa!

Question:
B.4. I tári mapanë i Nauco.
Your answer:
The queen watched the dwarf.
Correct answer:
The queen seized the Dwarf.
Explanation:
Looks like you just mixed up your verbs here.

Question:
B.5. I Elda cendanë i carnë parma.
Your answer:
The elf saw the red book.
Correct answer:
The Elf read the red book.
Explanation:
Again, looks like you just mixed up your verbs.

[Isiltári]

Oops, I forgot to answer your question. I've answered the question about the dieresis above, but now I'll answer your other question.

You said, "And i'm also wondering, in basic verbs, if the long vowel it gets in the present tense should stay in future tense, or become short again? There's som rule about the vowel being short when followed by more than one consonant, but I can't find anything on this."

First of all, the rules for the lengthening of the stem vowel are different for the different tenses, and they're explained completely in each lesson, so you won't be left guessing.

Also, the rule you're referring to is that a long vowel will NEVER appear before a consonant cluster, and you're definitely correct on that one.

Does that help?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Oh, that's just great!:whoohoo: I'm kinda wondering, did you learn all this alone, or did you have someone clever to support you, like me?;) I'm getting there with the dots, slowly, but nevertheless...! Can't understand why I mixed those verbs, though. Can you tell me where on my keys I might find the capital U korresponding to ú?

Actually I've already read lesson 7, but I haven't done the exercises yet.

I have some questions. I see from some of the texts available that sometimes two nouns are combined into a new noun, or even a noun and an adjective. Are also other types of words, like ex. a verb and a noun, combined into new words? And is it possible, when a word is not attested, that it can be constructed from a stem or a similar word from another category?

I'm working on my poem from time to time. I can't seem to find some of the words in my lists, but then again I probably don't have the lot. The words are "awaken (v)", colour (n)", "smell (n)", "attention (n)", "hit (v)", "ground (n)" or "earth (n)". Do you know them?

Thanks Isil, you're a darling! :cuddles:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya, vorondil!

I'm all done with lesson 7. Can I have some more, please? By the way, I read your reply on the Tengwar font, and had look at the site, got my name transcribed as well. Can you believe this man who constructed these languages, I'm totally in awe!!!notworthy Wish I could find more time to learn faster, but then I would probably cross some line of addiction...!

Tenn' omentielvo ento, á harya melwa andùnë!

[Isiltári]

Awww, I saw your post in one of the Sindarin threads -- you missed me! How sweet! :)

I'm just about finished making the new exercises for you for Lesson 7. I'll post them tomorrow for sure if not tonight. Wil has me busy getting the Quenya names finished for the "official" WotR names list. :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Heeey, good to see ya! :) And yes, I did! Thought you'd gone on holiday some place nice for me to envy. You poor thing, is everybody nagging you about this? I've gone a bit ahead and started working on lesson 8, impatient me. Aside from looking in on the knock out bar every once in a while...! It's getting dark pretty early up here nowadays, no use in spending time outside. I so wish I could hear someone speak this language, do you know anyplace on the web where it is done? See you later, aligator!

[Isiltári]

Lol, no one is nagging me, I love studying Quenya, and I love translating.

Do you still want exercises for Lesson Seven, even though you've moved on to Lesson Eight? I do have them pretty much written out, so I can still post them if you like. :)

Namárië!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

:) Hey, I'll take what I can get! This is just so much fun, I love it! Could you tell me how to say "it is oktober"? Gotta go...

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Iiiisiiil, you've gone and left me! No honestly, though I enjoy this a lot, you have to tell me if you wanna stop, and I'll stop waiting around. Thou hast nothing to fear, though I am a notorious foodfighter!

[Isiltári]

Darling, I didn't see your question! A thousand apologies!

It is October.
Nas Narquelië. (nas nar-KWEL-i-eh)

Of course this is still lots of fun for me......just waiting to see what questions you might have! How is Lesson Eight coming along?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya, vorondil! Good to see ya 'round! I'm all done with the eighth, but I was still hoping for those excercises for the seventh? If you didn't make them, its ok.

Ofcourse the personal noun should be attached to the verb "na", silly me! Why on earth would I come up with such an idea to attach it to the noun...!

I've made a short poem, not on rhyme, bur modern style, just for excercise really. Would you like me to post it?

[Isiltári]

Yes yes yes! Post it! I'd be thrilled and honored to read it!

I'll finish those Lesson Seven exercises and make some for Lesson 8 right now. :)

Namárië!

[Isiltári]

Additional exercises for study up to and including Lesson Seven:

A. Translate to Quenya:

1. All Elves are wise and beautiful.
2. A king speaks, and a people hear.
3. Bright stars shine over the great world.
4. Six Dwarves will seize the evil warriors.
5. The mighty queen governs a great people.
6. All Elves and all Dwarves speak.
7. Many evil Dwarves will die.
8. Lions eat flesh.
9. The king and queen have great treasure.
10. The warrior will find the king.
11. A warrior wields a mighty sword.
12. Every tree will die.
13. A lion jumps over a stone.
14. A queen rules a people, and will rule every man.
15. The lions ate the flesh, and will eat the warrior.

B. Translate to English:
1. I macil silë nu Isil.
2. Sailë neri turir Ambar.
3. I taura ohtar quetë, ar i saila tári hlaruva.
4. Neri turir rávi.
5. Ohtar turuva macil.

[Isiltári]

I will post the Lesson Eight exercises during the weekend. :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Thanks ever so much, I'll start working on them when we're home from Harry Potter this evening!;)

Here comes my little verse, a bit limping I'm afraid, couldn't find all the right words. Feel free to comment, I'm not the touchy type, and I consider this practise!

Mori cenanyë i aldar,
i vilya ringa, sintanë.
I lassi alantier,
varni, firini.
Nas Narquelië.

I have troubble finding my way in the wordlists. It seems they are listed by the elvish words, and not by the english. Do you happen to have a link I can use? The lists belonging to the course are not complete, and for some reason I never can get in on the site you've listed further up in the forum, I think it's a geocities-link. Can't find the server, thats the message I keep getting.verymad Makes me insane sometimes! See ya!

[Lord Aragorn]

Hi to everybody,

I started learning the Quenya not a long time ago and i have some questions. I am in lesson one and i am finishing the pronunciation.
My questions are: how do we know where each word is accented. I think there are some rules though i didn't undertand anything.
Could someone explain them to me in a few words?:(

Also somwhere it says that the -h is pronouced [x]. Does anyone know why?

Thank you a lot for the help.

P.S. i hope i posted my questions in the right tread. If not tell me

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Here it comes:

Originally posted by Isiltári
Additional exercises for study up to and including Lesson Seven:

A. Translate to Quenya:

1. All Elves are wise and beautiful.
Ilyë Eldar nar sailë ar vanyë.
2. A king speaks, and a people hear.
Aran quetë ar lië hlarë.
3. Bright stars shine over the great world.
Calimë eleni silir or i alta Ambar.
4. Six Dwarves will seize the evil warriors.
Enquë Naucor mapuvar i úmië ohtari.
5. The mighty queen governs a great people.
I taura tári turë alta lië.
6. All Elves and all Dwarves speak.
Ilyë Eldar ar ilyë Naucor quetir.
7. Many evil Dwarves will die.
Rimba úmië Naucor firuvar.
8. Lions eat flesh.
Rávi matir apsa.
9. The king and queen have great treasure.
I aran ar i tári haryar alta harma.
10. The warrior will find the king.
I ohtar hiruva i aran.
11. A warrior wields a mighty sword.
Ohtar turë taura macil.
12. Every tree will die.
Ilya alda firuva.
13. A lion jumps over a stone.
Rá capë or sar.
14. A queen rules a people, and will rule every man.
Tári turë lië, ar turuva ilya nér.
15. The lions ate the flesh, and will eat the warrior.
I rávi mantë i apsa, ar mantuva i ohtar.

B. Translate to English:

1. I macil silë nu Isil.
The sword shines under the moon.
2. Sailë neri turir Ambar.
Wise men rule the world.
3. I taura ohtar quetë, ar i saila tári hlaruva.
The mighty warrior speaks, and the wise queen will hear.
4. Neri turir rávi.
Men wield lions.
5. Ohtar turuva macil.
A warrior wil wield the sword.


I'm really looking forward to see your comments, had it changed midways cuz I realized I'd done wrong.

I've only just started reading on lesson 9. Went and got my TTT- tickets today, I can hardly wait! :stomper: :stomper: :stomper: :stomper: See ya later, teach! :wave:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Originally posted by Lord Aragorn
Hi to everybody,

I started learning the Quenya not a long time ago and i have some questions. I am in lesson one and i am finishing the pronunciation.
My questions are: how do we know where each word is accented. I think there are some rules though i didn't undertand anything.
Could someone explain them to me in a few words?:(

Also somwhere it says that the -h is pronouced [x]. Does anyone know why?

Thank you a lot for the help.

P.S. i hope i posted my questions in the right tread. If not tell me

Hey, Lord Aragorn! How great that you've started studying, I'm happy not to be the only one in here!:grin: About the accenting, I had the excact same question for Isil when I started, so you might find it further up in the thread. As for the h/x I don't know, didn't understand that me neither. Haven't come across it anywhere else, maybe Isil can enlighten us!:thumbs:

[Isiltári]

Hi Cuiel! That's awesome......I'm getting my TTT tickets ASAP!!!!!

Your answers are great!!!!! Things get a bit complicated beginning in Lesson Nine or Ten, so remember to take your time. Great work!!!!!! :thumbs:


Question:
A. 3. Bright stars shine over the great world.
Your answer:
Calimë eleni silir or i alta Ambar.
Correct answer:
Calimë eleni silir or alta Ambar.
Explanation:
Remember that "Ambar" is a proper noun and does not require the definite article "i."

Question:
A. 7. Many evil Dwarves will die.
Your answer:
Rimba úmië Naucor firuvar.
Correct answer:
Rimbë úmië Naucor firuvar.
Explanation:
Remember that "rimba" must agree in number, so the plural would be "rimbë."

Question:
A. 8. Lions eat flesh.
Your answer:
Rávi matir apsa.
Correct answer:
Rávi matir hrávë.
Explanation:
"Apsa" = meat, "hrávë" = flesh.

Question:
A. 9. The king and queen have great treasure.
Your answer:
I aran ar i tári haryar alta harma.
Correct answer:
I aran ar tári haryar alta harma.
Explanation:
The definite article would not be included twice for a correct translation of this sentence.

**Note on #14:
14. A queen rules a people, and will rule every man.
Tári turë lië, ar turuva ilya nér.
Technically, the sentence refers to "man" meaning men in the race of men, so "Atan" would probably be more correct here. However, depending on the translation (if you were referring to men only and not women, for example), "nér" could be correct.

Question:
A. 15. The lions ate the flesh, and will eat the warrior.
Your answer:
I rávi mantë i apsa, ar mantuva i ohtar.
Correct answer:
I rávi manter i hrávë , ar matuvar i ohtar.
Explanation:
"Rávi" is plural, so the verb must agree in number. Again, hrávë is the correct translation of "flesh." I see you're using nasal infixion here for the future tense of the verb mat-. While that's acceptable, it is generally not used by most students of Quenya -- the general rule is that nasal infixion is used for the past tense verbs when necessary, but not for future tense verbs unless there is an attested instance of it in use (such as "enquantuva," vs. enquatuva). Therefore, I'd recommend using "matuvar" rather than "mantuvar" in this case. Also, remember that since "rávi" is plural, the verb must be also.

Question:
B. 4. Neri turir rávi.
Your answer:
Men wield lions.
Correct answer:
Men rule (or govern) lions.
Explanation:
Remember that tur- can mean to govern, control, rule or wield! The context usually can tell you which meaning is appropriate. :)

Question:
B. 5. Ohtar turuva macil.
Your answer:
A warrior wil wield the sword.
Correct answer:
A warrior will wield a sword.
Explanation:
There's no definite article, so the correct translation would be "a" sword rather than "the" sword.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya! Thanks for correcting my homework, I'm happy I didn't make any big mistakes! :grin:

I have a couple of questions, though. For one, you see in my dictionary meat and flesh are both translated to norwegian by the same word. I need help on defining the difference between these two things if I'm to avoid this mistake again!

Also I'm a little puzzled by the verb "tur-". I think this is a translationproblem, cuz when I translate govern I use a word that means government between men, hardly men and animals. In norwegian "govern" would be used in context with laws/rules, and "control" would be used when disgussing, well controling animals. It feels like something gets lost during the translation, so I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain!:huh:

Did you get a chance to look at my little verse? Hope you didn't mind me telling Lord Aragorn to look for the answeres needed further up...! Whats with the h thats pronounced x, though? Must admit I haven't needed it, (I think!), but yet...;) Gotta go...

[Isiltári]

Hi there! I'm sorry I haven't had much time to post lately! Tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I'll have some time to spend in the forums, so I'll get back to you on all your questions then (and I'll take a look at your poem too!!!!!!!!!! I forgot to go back and read it after I last posted)!

Thanks for being so patient. :)

:thumbs:

[Isiltári]

Hi there!

First of all.........for your poem!

Here's how I've translated it, so you need to tell me if you meant any of the words or phrases to mean something else.

"Black I see the trees
The sky is cold, faded.
The leaves have fallen
Brown, dead.
It is October."

I think this is lovely! Congrats on your first composition!!!!!! :thumbs:


Now, the difference between "flesh" and "meat." This is probably a fine line, but if you're referring to raw meat, it would be more appropriate to say flesh (example: lions eat flesh).

Does that make sense? :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya! I'm so glad, you translated the poem exactly as I ment it to be!:whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo: :whoohoo: I've got another one comming, not really all mine, but I haven't got all the words yet. Think I'll wait a bit longer before I post it.

And yes, that with the meat/flesh thing cleared it all up, thanks a bunch! I've read a little bit on the 9, but I've also been rather busy, my husband had his birthday on the 28th and we've been under with the flue and all, with x-mas and all I suppose it'll take a while 'till I'm done! I'll still be looking around here, though, see ya later!:) :) :)

[Isiltári]

Also I'm a little puzzled by the verb "tur-". I think this is a translationproblem, cuz when I translate govern I use a word that means government between men, hardly men and animals. In norwegian "govern" would be used in context with laws/rules, and "control" would be used when disgussing, well controling animals. It feels like something gets lost during the translation, so I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain!

Tur- is a verb of many meanings and different connotations. It can mean "to govern," "to control," "to rule," and "to wield." Remember that the context in which it is used is a good indicator of how it should be translated. Here are some examples of its use:

Turin i osto. I govern the city.
Turin i néri. I control the men.
Turin i Eldar. I rule the Elves.
Turin macil. I wield a sword.

Does that help?

Lord Aragorn, in Lesson One of Helge's course, the "h" pronunciations are explained in detail. It takes reading a few times to really understand it. Re-read those sections, and if you still have questions, I'll be happy to help and try to offer additional explanation as to the pronunciation.

[Isiltári]

Cuiel -- I'm so glad that helped! :)

I'm looking forward to reading your next composition. :thumbs:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I think I've got the "tur-" now! About the h/x-thing, am I to understand that the "x" referes to the many different ways of pronouncing it...the h I mean? If thats the case, you've solved a mystery, and I feel rather stupid! :duh: I thought it was some extra way of pronouncing it that my brain couldn't percieve, and I didn't ask cuz I didn't see it used any place and then completely forgot about it! :grin:

[Isiltári]

Just FYI, my dear elves and hobbits, my internet access is going to be limited this week, as my regular computer is in the shop (hurrah for upgrades!). However, I will be checking in on you guys every day, and I'll still be here to answer what questions you might have.

Cuiel, I'll post a more in-depth explanation of the "h" pronunciation within the next couple of days, as it seems one is needed. :thumbs:

Namárië!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

What would we do whithout you! Wander around, lost and bewildered, I'm sure! If you happen to have any excercises for the 8th, I'm willing and waiting!:grin: :grin: Have you heard about the boyfriend upgrade, by the way?

[Isiltári]

I'm here, I'm here! I had to work all weekend, and it looks like it will be another busy week. I'm not sure when I'll have time to make up some exercises for Lesson Eight, but I will try to do it this week for you. mecry

*Ahem*

Do tell about the boyfriend upgrade! And how is your Quenya study going? :)

[Elf angel]

Take your time friend, as for me i will get a new writing pad.

[Isiltári]

I have returned! Cuiel, and fellow posters...........how are your studies going?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aiya, Isil!

Have you had a nice christmas? Well fed and rested? Lovely with some time off, sleep in...! :snooze:

I've had break as well, started reading again today. Almost finished the exercises from the 9th lesson. It's getting more difficoult, my poor brain haven't been exposed to such tough use in years! Think I'll reread some of the former lessons tonight, before I continue, just to freshen things up a little. If you still have those additional lessons for the 8th, it would be grand!

I have a tricky question! :evilcool: In my course it says that participles in which the primitive stem has the stem- vowel occuring more than once, it is the second occurence that should be lengthened. But a few lines up Helge puts the dot on the first occurence in "lálala". Does this word have a longer stem than what is obvious to me, or is this a mistake?

Nice to have you amongst us again!:)

[Isiltári]

Aiya!

Remember, in the verb lala-, the stem-vowel is not occuring twice -- the final -a in lala- is not considered a "stem-vowel" -- only the first "a" is the stem-vowel.

For example, the stem-vowel(s) are marked here in red:

lala- (active participle: lálala)
falasta- (active participle: falastala -- however, if the second "a" were not followed by a consonant cluster in this case, it would be lengthened).

Does that make sense? :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Maybe...but then how does one know if the second occurence of a vowel is a second stem- vowel or just a similar vowel?:rolleyes: I'm on my first cup I dont get that.

[Isiltári]

Just think of it this way: with a-stem verbs, don't count the final "a" as one of the stem-vowels. Just consider it...the a-stem verb identifier, sort of.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Aha, in "falasta-" what confused me was the fact that the stem- vowel was an -a-, with three ocurrences of it! Made me think of "lala-" in a similar fashion, kind of dumb really. All the lights are on but nobodys home at the moment!

[Isiltári]

Lol....no problem. I can see why you got confused. ;)

[Elfdaughter]

First time EVER in trying to write in Quenya. (Heck, I haven't even started lesson 2 yet!) Just wondering if ?I could get some pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?mecry
Goldberry, River-Daughter!

In a dream she walks,
Hair radiant as the sun,
Her melody plays on river-bed rocks,
Her clothes from gold are spun.
As day turns into night,
Upon the fragrant water,
The lilies float,
The river sings,
For Goldberry, River-Daughter!


Laurëpiucca, Sírë-Yendë!
(translation in quenya)

Mi olórë vantas,
Fassë alcarinqua ve Anar,
Linderya tyalin sírë-caima ondonnar,
Collarya laurello nar carna.
Ve aurë ahya minna lómë,
Venya nénanna,
Nénu lutu,
Sírë lirin,
Laurëpiucca, Sírë-Yenden!


Any help much appreciated!

[Silmo]

I'm on lesson 7 in the ardalambion course - a little bit behind some of you. Would anyone care to write a little story together using the tenses and vocabulary learned up to that point? We can correct each other on any mistakes we happen to make, and it'll be fun practice. I'll start....

Nu tasari saila aran tirnë vanya vendë.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I vendë lindanë, ar aran quentë; Nalye Elda?

[Silmo]

But. alas, the maiden could not reply to the wise king, because she did not know what "Nalye" meant.... :blush: Can someone tell her?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Oh..terribly sorry:blush: is all on me! Ná-/ is and -lye/ you...if I'm correct that should be "are you".

[Elfdaughter]

um..it might be a good idea to post the translations underneath...that way the rest of us know what you're talking about, and can butt in if they want! Plus, it'll avoid confusion (like above!)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Ok, I'm new at this sort of exercise, but if thats ok with Silmo, I'm game. I certainly see the sence in it.

Nu tasari saila aran tirnë vanya vendë
Under the willows the wise king watched the beautiful maiden

I vendë lindanë, ar aran quentë; Nalyë Elda?
The maiden sang, and the king spoke; are you an elf?

Maybe Isíl will pull our ears if we do anything wrong...that way we can develop elf- ears..hehe!:elfeek:

[Elfdaughter]

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien!

Out of the Great sea to Middle Earth I am come!

(but I did copy that from a Quenya lesson!!)

[Silmo]

Maybe Isíl will pull our ears if we do anything wrong...that way we can develop elf- ears..hehe! Yay for elf ears! :) How about the person who posts the next sentence translates the one just before theirs and gives a new sentence in quneya as well? That way we get practice translating each other's sentence.

Out of the Great sea to Middle Earth I am come!

...Ar i Vanyar nar lienya, lalanë i anvanya vendë.

[Elfdaughter]

um.....pass....

[Silmo]

Well, how about this, Elfdaughter, we'll put the translation up, but stick it down the page some and make it almost invisible, so if the next person doesn't want to see the translation, but wants to try to translate it herself, then she can. So here you go...

...Ar i Vanyar nar lienya, lalanë i anvanya vendë.









And the Vanyar are my people, laughed the most beautiful maiden.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Woo, almost got me stuck there for a while!:grin:

"I ré sintëa, únotimë eleni sílar...hendulya sindi nar ancalima ! " i aran quentë.









"The day is fading, uncountable stars are shining...your grey eyes are brightest!" the king said.

[Silmo]

Beautiful sentence, Cuiel!

Lómelindu lindar (in) i lómë ar minë aiwë séra (upon) i ranco (of) i aran.













A pair of nightingales is singing in the night and one bird is resting upon the arm of the king. (Sorry I don't know how to do the ones in parentheses yet.) mecry

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Good work!:)

I aran orta i ranco an lerya i aiwë

Oh, and where did youfind the word "a pair of nightingales"? Had to half guess and half sneekpeek at that one!









The king raised up the arm to free the bird.

[Silmo]

I use Nole Parma Lambeo Areldava's quenya word list, which seems to be reliable and gives its sources for the words, at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2196/index.html , as well as the ardalambion one. The former is in alphabetical order by English word, the latter, as you know, by alphabetical order by Quenya word. For "pair of", I just used the dual plural ending.

On a similar note, where did you find "lerya"? Is it an infinitiive? If so, of what verb?

[Silmo]

Úmëa óma lussëa, "I vendë hiruva i vanwë híni (or) firuvantë.":o

Does anyone know the word for "or"? Also, is "firuvantë" correct, or should it be "firuvarntë" with an "r", since it is plural?








An evil voice is whispering, "The maiden will find the lost children or they will die."

[Lady of Mirkwood]

can anyone help me?
i just want to know if "Amin mela lle" or "ro sane amin corm"
are correct.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

It just occured to me that we prob seem like a bunch of ignorants to you newbies, sitting around practicing our stuff and not caring about anything else! But you see the thing is we're still learnig this stuff, and we don't really feel capable of translating everything yet, neither back nor forth...and I don'think Isíl will be very happy if we bewilder you guys with our not so perfect and still not complete Quenya! Be patient , I'm sure she'll see your question.

[Silmo]

...Exactly why I didn't try to answer either. I would probably tell you the wrong thing, Lady of Mirkwood! Do you think it would be better if we opened a new thread for the story practice, Cuiel, instead of doing it in this thread, so we aren't taking up all the space in this one? Sorry, I'm still new to this forum. I'll start a new thread. And I do hope that Isiltari will check in on our quenya story thread and help us!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I'm a little baffled by the firuvantë- thingy...have to read the next chapter or so to get it straight!

Lerya is infinitive for the A-stem lerya-, to set free.

My connection sucks these days, dunno whats wrong! Don't worry if I'm gone for a while, I won't leave for good!

[Silmo]

O.k. I just read chapter 8 and saw lerya- thanks for the explanation about infinitive, Cuiel. Hopefully I'll get to that soon. Concerning firuvantë-, Isiltari can you help us? Also, do you know the word for "or"? Thanks!!!

[Isiltári]

Aiya! I'm here for the evening, and I'm going to try and get caught up with all of your questions/comments/etc. Good news, also: I'm taking a week off work, so I'll be much more available in the coming week! Hurrah! Anyway....

First things first........Elfdaughter's poem! First of all, let me just say that this is one of the most beautiful translations I have yet seen! Congratulations -- it's fabulous! I have only a few suggestions/corrections.

Mi olórë vantas,
Fassë alcarinqua ve Anar,
Linderya tyalin sírë-caima ondonnar
Here, I would use the following:
Linderya (her melody) tyalë (plays – aorist) ondonnar (upon rocks) sírëcaimo (of the river-bed)
Collarya laurello nar carna.
Ve aurë ahya minna lómë,
"Ve" does not mean "as something happens," but rather "it is red AS wine," or "it is blue like water." It is used as a comparative word. I would simply leave it out here, and just say:
Aurë ahya minna lómë, (Day changes into night)
Venya nénanna,
"Venya" literally means "fresh," but I like the use of it here as "fragrant." I would suggest a change in word order here, however:
Nénanna venya.
Nénu lutu,
This should be changed to:
I nénur lutur
Sírë lirin,
This should be changed to:
I sírë lírë
Laurëpiucca, Sírë-Yenden!
This should be changed to:
An Laurëpiucca, Sírë-Yenden!

My final changes/suggestions:

Mi olórë vantas,
Fassë alcarinqua ve Anar,
Linderya tyalë ondonnar sírëcaimo
Collarya laurello nar carna.
Aurë ahya minna lómë,
Nénanna venya
I nénur lutur
I sírë lírë
An laurëpiucca, Sírë-Yenden!

[Elfdaughter]

Thanks! That's really helped :) :)

[Lessien Elensar]

is 'ava vanta i salquesse' quenya? i read that it ment 'keep off the grass' but i was just wondering if it actually did coz i was looking at some dictionary translations and it didn't match at all............

[Isiltári]

Yes, lol. It means "Don't walk (on) the grass."

[Lessien Elensar]

oh kool, thanks!! :grin: :thumbs:

[Patricia]

Okay, um, I have two very major questions. Unfortunately the only way of my learning Quenya is the internet, and usually what I find explains things rather vaguely.

Here goes.

1. I need to know how to form the posessive; ex "her" or "its" or "their". If "I" is "Ni" (I think. I hope.), is "my" "inye"? Because I found something that tells me it's exactly so. DOesn't sound right.

2. The past tense. The explanation I have is "The perfect past is formed in -nie". So if I have the verb "walk", "vanta", would "walked" be "vanie"?

If anyone can help me I would VERY appreciate it. :(

[Isiltári]

Hi there! I will give you a couple of "short" answers to your questions, but since they are pretty involved questions, I'm going to have to direct you to the course at Ardalambion (http://www.ardalambion.com). This is an invaluable tool -- and since it seems that you have learned a couple of things incorrectly (by receiving unreliable information, possibly), I would really recommend that you start the course from the beginning and work through at your own pace. :thumbs:

1. The possessive for different pronouns is usually formed by means of a pronominal suffix -- such as the ending -nya, indicating "my." There is a large section on possessive pronouns in the Ardalambion course.

"Inyë" is used as an emphatic pronoun meaning "I" or "even I." It does not mean "my."

2. The past tense is not usually formed by the ending -nië, but typically by using the ending -në. Also, remember that the perfect tense is different from the past tense.

Example: vanta- "to walk"

past tense: vantanë - "walked"
perfect tense: avantië - "has walked"

Of course, there are many specific rules for the formations of these tenses, so you'll definitely need to study the course as it would take a lot of time for me to post them all here.

I hope this sort of offers a quick answer to your questions, though!

[Patricia]

Thank you for that, Isil! I've looked at Ardalambion last night and got up to lesson 2 :) It's really really helpful

[Patricia]

Hm... I remembered this being a story. As far as I remember it involved a maiden, and a king. Then I got lost on what happens. I can form small sentences, and I'm making real progress in the Ardalambion course, but the story seems to have.... kind of faded out or something. :(

[Isiltári]

Patricia: The story is in the thread entitled "A Quenya Story." Small, simple sentences are very welcome, so please feel free to contribute! :)

[Patricia]

*smacks head* Duh.

Thanks.

[Silmo]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the aradalambion course, Patricia! Please join us over at the story thread - the more people we have, the more creative our story will be! Your sentences before were great, so I hope you'll consider posting a new one soon. Right now the king and the maiden have set out on quest to find the lost children, who are guarded by an evil Dwarf. What will happen next.......?