Frodo Sailing to the Grey Havens

[Firith Evenstar]

An interesting question was raised about Frodo.

Do you think he became immortal when he was allowed to go the the Grey Havens?

I mean, the Ring Bearers were pretty important, and Galadriel was "restored" and pardoned when she got to go back to the Havens. So what do you all think eh?
:cool:

[Daughter of Finarfin]

Well they are the "Undying Lands." I've never really thought about it before, I just always assumed you couldn't die there. In the Silm Tuor was allowed there, and I think he lived forever.

[Grond]

from The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter #325 to Roger Lancelyn Green 17 July, 1971

...The Elves who took this road and those few 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.

The angelic immortals (incarnate only at their own will), the Valar or regents under God, and others of the same order but less power and majesty (such as Olórin = Gandalf) needed no transport, unless they for a time remained incarnate, and they could, if allowed or commanded, return.

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.I think the author felt that mortals were doomed to their fate. The Valar had not the Power to grant any immortality... only Eru and in this case, He (Eru) allowed the Hobbits to be healed and spend the rest of their days on Tol Eressea within sight of Valinor. :)

[A! Elbereth]

I believe that he would eventually die, but Frdod's life would be extended to some point... but that is only an opinion...

[Firith Evenstar]

very nice grond. thank you :)

[Kezzy]

I am pretty sure that he ends up dying i think i read something somewhere but i cannot be sure! has anyone read the book tolkien wrote after LOTR it is like a final ending to it explaining everybodys end as far as i am aware i haven't read it yet but i am sure it would answer this question.

[Grond]

I'm not sure what you are looking for, but this quote from CT in Volume X of the Histories of Middle-earth gives references to this issue and also cites the multiple letters where JRRT addressed the issue as well.from HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring, Appendix - The Converse of Manwe and Eru
One further passage in 'Reincarnation of Elves' should be mentioned. In a sort of aside from the course of his thoughts, moving more rapidly (even) than his pen, my father remarked that 'the exact nature of existence in Aman or Eressea after their "removal" must be dubious and unexplained', as must the question of 'how "mortals" could go there at all'. On this he observed that Eru had 'long before' committed the Dead of mortals also to Mandos; cf. QS $86 (V.247):

'What befell their spirits after death the Elves know not. Some say that they too go to the halls of Mandos; but their place of waiting there is not that of the Elves; and Mandos under Iluvatar alone save Manwe knows whither they go after the time of recollection in those silent halls beside the Western Sea.

The sojourn of Frodo (he went on) in Eressea - then on to Mandos? - was only an extended form of this. Frodo would eventually leave the world (desiring to do so). So that the sailing in ship was equivalent to death.'

With this may be contrasted what he wrote at the end of his account of The Lord of the Rings in his letter to Milton Waldman of 1951 (a passage omitted in Letters but printed in IX.132):
To Bilbo and Frodo the special grace is granted to go with the Elves they loved - an Arthurian ending, in which it is, of course, not made explicit whether this is an 'allegory' of death, or a mode of healing and restoration leading to a return.

In his letter to Naomi Mitchison of September 1954 (Letters no.154), however, he said:
... the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' - of free will, and leave the world. (In this setting the return of Arthur would be quite impossible, a vain imagining.)

And much later, in a draft letter of 1963 (Letters no.246), he wrote:
Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.I hope this is what you were looking for.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

um does that mean Tuor died as well? when i read the story of Tuor I assumed he was given immortality...does it say that or was it my imaginings?

[Grond]

No Tuor was the probably the greatest exception ever made in Middle-earth.. and the exception was made by Iluvator. Tuor was granted Elf-ship for want of a better word. He was deemed of Elven-kind even though he was born human. Let me find the quote. from The Silmarillion, Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
...But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of men.There isn't any relevant material in UT... I'll look in HoMe tomorrow. :)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

so it wasn't just my imaginings! Thank you so much Grond notworthy

if you do find something I would love to hear about it :grin:

[A! Elbereth]

I've read at least 20 different fan fictions on their point of view about Frodo's life in Valinor and they made me weep like there was no tomorrow. I think I understand Frodo's departure better than I understand myself if that is possible :elfeek: :loveyou: