Changed attitudes of the chars...

[Lady Ashley]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Faramir and Treebeard will certainly be a lot less nice in the next film(s)? I heard something that Faramir will try to take a look at the Ring (that pic of a sword pulling it out of Frodo's shirt). In the books, he didn't even want to NAME it, let alone look at it.

As for Treebeard, when did he ever scoop up a poor, frightened-looking Hobbit?

Can we see changes in our chars' natures? (And not to mention the Arwen thing, which I shall not go into again.) I can see changes in their natures...hoom!, as Treebeard would say.

~Ashley~

[Nessa]

I have most definately noticed this, Ashley.

Apparently Faramir will get a peek at the ring by cutting the front of Frodo's shirt?!? As......tantilizing..... as that sounds to those of us who may fancy the lad, that is a major infringement on Faramir's gently nature! He's my favorate (besides hobbits), and I don't want his charactor tampered with. (Are you saying 'chars' because you can't spell it? I know I certainly can't! lol )

PJ is undoubtedly doing this to spice it up for the non-Tolkien audience a bit more. In the books, I was nervous when Frodo first met Faramir, but only because he was human, and Boromir's brother. I was scared at first as well when Treebeard lifted the hobbits of their feet in Fangorn, but was quickly relieved by both of those character's gentle natures. Who can say yet if PJ will take it too far?

Another thing: Frodo looks awfully angry in a few of those shots! Who is he looking at? Gollum is the logical answer, but with that much hatred? Is PJ compensating for a slightly ....... unconfrontational ..... Frodo in Fotr?

My head hurts, too much speculation. lol

[Lady Ashley]

No, i can spell 'character'. lol I was just abbrieviating.

Yes, infringment on their gentle natures...you said that much better than I, Nessa. Go you! lol

[Daughter of Finarfin]

I really hope they don't ruin Faramir. He is one of my favorites! Eowyn also seems like she may be a little more of a... I don't know the right word... a flirt. I know Eowyn was pretty obvious in the books about her feelings for Aragorn, but from the trailers it seems she may just openly go after him.

[Eowyn]

ahhhhhhhhhhhh! they can't change faramir! nooooooooooooooo! mecry

why was treebeard chasing poor hobbits (was it merry?)

[Bonos-Girl]

omg...faramir's gonna CUT frodos shirt??!!

[TheRingBearer]

Yeah in the preview on the dvd he pulls the chain out with his sword.

I also hope they don't screw up Faramir and Treebeard. But i'm quite sure they'll be great :thumbs: I hope :grin:

[Undomiel]

i dont think treebeard was doing nething bad, but i did notice that thing about Faramir. Also in part of the DVD (I'm not sure where) there's a bit where Frodo's saying "the ring cannot save Gondor it can only do evil" (or something to that effect) i hope he wasn't talking to Faramir coz Faramir never suggested that and he is also one of my fave characters too :(

[Tar-Ancalimë]

"The ring will not save Gondor--it has only the power to destroy." (OMG I've seen that too many times, I need to get a life) Who else could he be talking to? No one else in this movie would ever debate with him on the subject. Who could possibly have suggested he use it to save Gondor? Boromir? He's dead. Denethor? What is he doing in TTT? No one else wants the ring to use as a weapon.

[Undomiel]

yeah that was the line-i dont know it too well coz i haven't got the dvd (though ive borrowed it a few times) i have to wait for the collectors one coz i'm a little short of cash.
tis bad-i really don't want him to be speaking to faramir but there isnt really ne1 else.

[Bonos-Girl]

Omg.....this is faramir...not some evil little.......

[Pil]

I know...sweet but powerful faramir...now an evil guy who treats hobbit badly...hoom indeed! :(

[Undomiel]

exactly :( it's just not right. well i'm gonna still hope for the best. You never know

[Sindarin]

Quite so, Undomiel. We're all hoping for the best. :)

[Little Devil]

Can't wait till Dec18 to see what they've done with them!
:whoohoo:

[Undomiel]

oo i know-sad me with my countdown clock-72 days to go-argh!!! i've been thinking and surely they cant plan on changing Faramir hugely coz he's a very popular character. Neway here's hoping.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

darn PJ! from the main page:Apparently Faramir is originally tempted by the power of the ring and intends to take it to his father Denethor in Minas Tirith, and his band of rangers go to Osgiliath which has been besieged. While in Osgiliath Faramir realizes he can not use the ring from persuasion from Frodo and Sam and chooses to let Gollum, Frodo, Sam go to Mordor via the sewers as to avoid the Surrounding Orc patrols. Doesn't mention if gollun is captured in Ithilien or Osgiliath.
what does he think he's doing???

[Togo Bleecker]

eeek! i hope thats not true..

[A! Elbereth]

He is going to rip Frodo's shirt off? okay okay! not OFF... but mmmmm... *stops herself* sorry everyone - almost let my frodo fancy-ing (sp?) get in the way. Although the shirt ripping sounds appealing this isn't right.... (as everyone else said).

Frodo and Sam look a little like they are taken hostage in what looks like a cave with boxes in them (forgot what this 'place' is called)... Sam looks upset - is it because of Faramir?

I just mentioned the evil looks Frodo has in some of the pics... I am nearly jumping out of my skin because I WANT TO SEE THAT PART! I do know that the one where Frodo is looking behind him that Sam is behind him, and Frodo appears a little cornered. This may be little glimpse of how the ring makes him be cruel to Sam?

I also noticed that in a picture that was taken off the site because of the book released today, that as faramir's men are holding Sam and Frodo (a popular pic) - this is a different angle and Frodo is obviously talking to someone - his shirt is half open and there is NO ring around his neck :elfeek:

[Brindlescruff]

Merry was running, and I don't think away from Treebeard, but from Orcs..

Or, considering we only hear the music in the trailer, Treebeard may be speaking to Merry...kinda "hoom hoo boy! Be not so hasty hoom" and then he picks him up, while Merry's freaking out ala the Disney Hercules movie where the statue picks him up....remember watching that as a kid?

Ah, mem-or-REES! hee hee hee

[Lady Ashley]

*sigh* Brindlescuff, I can SO see Treebeard saying that! In fact, that's a really good idea!

:thumbs:

As for Faramir...he's changing...I hate this...why must poor Faramir be treated like this?...it's so unfair to him...

Why must poor, gone, Mr. Tolkien be taken advantage of? Just because he's no longer in this world doesn't mean he should be unjustly treated. His works are being marred! Mutilated! Torn asunder! *runs away to weep*

(f anyone wants to see more of my ranting, please see the thread "Sewers??")

~Ashley~

[Tar-Ancalimë]

aww *Tar runs to comfort her twin* poor Ash... we all feel that way... poor poor JRR mecry... aww but cheer up Ash, after all, we haven't seen it yet! *false grin of somewhat sorta half comfort that maybe somehow they will get it right....* :grin:

[Undomiel]

NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOw could he?????? What's happened to the real Faramir? This just isnt right.

[Bonos-Girl]

nope...but unfortunately there's nothing ew can do about it. mecry

[Undomiel]

mecry mecry mecry ok i had a few things in FOTR that i didnt like, but he never changed the characters completely (apart possibly frm Arwen, but that's not the point) Faramir is one of my fave characters :(

[Wilwarin]

I know what you mean. When I first read the book I was affraid that he would try to take the Ring from Frodo, being Boromir's brother and all, but then he said that he would never want it, that it wouldn't help him. And the way he talked and everything, I thought "what I decent guy!" So then I really liked him and wished that he went with Frodo and Sam into Mordor. Then I was soooo affraid for him when he got injured! I was hoping that he wouldn't die!

Faramir is a really good character. They better not change him! :angry:

[NoldoR]

I don't know what to say. There is no way that i can ever forgive PJ if he changes my favourite character. And i see no reason for why he should. Faramir is supposed to be the opposite of Boromir. Denethor loves Boromir more then he loves Faramir. But this "new" Faramir seems to be just like Boromir. This really saddens me. Not only do i get really angry, but i also get sad. Sad that one years waiting may just be in vain. And that might very well be so. (Take a look at the new spoilers, about the sewers and Aragorn being injured etc).

/Dissapointed Tolkien fan.

[ancient wannabe elf]

I feel the same as the Faramir fans, but for me, it is because the Eowyn-Farimir relationship is so gentle and subtle and they are such contrasts to the other characters. But I am sort of hoping that Faramir is (like his brother) deeply affected by the proximity of the ring, but HE can resist its call....does this put a more positive spin on this possible twist in his character...? Certainly I think this resistance could have a greater cinematic effect.....?

[A! Elbereth]

But it never said Faramir would try to take it by force. It only says that he says he should use it.... perhaps there is just an argument between Frodo and Faramir... then again... I did hear he rips his shirt and sees the ring, and in another picture the ring isn't even around Frodo's neck, and it looks like Frodo is a wee bit angry, or arguing... and Sam is gaping at him...

ARGH... ACK!!!!!!! Urrrrrgghh....pfbbt

[ancient wannabe elf]

Don't you think this is Faramir's inner battle, and that, cinematically, he is carrying on where Borimir left off -
ie left Frodo - hence his extreme anger....? Sorry if I'm over protesting, I'm voicing my own desperate hopes !

[Hans_Schuder]

Not all Tolkien fans think the same, however. Some of us have adopted different philosophies toward the film adaptation. ( Infidel! :wicked: )

I didn't buy the Photo Guide, but I did read through it while I was at the bookstore yesterday. Apparently, Boromir's death and his father's disappointment in his remaining son influences Faramir's judgement more than it did in the books. It'll probably heighten the tension amongst the characters and give us an opportunity to see Osgiliath. I think it's a dramatic character arc though more suitable to a film.

I'm not implying it'll work for certain, though I think it probably will, but generally I haven't been inclined to react negatively toward these changes in and of themselves. ;)

Now, Hans very... slowly... backs... away... from... the thread before he joins the bonfire. :stomper: :archer:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ah good plan :battle:

no j/k we dont care if you voice your opinion and its different... it's all good... really...lol

ok... the whole deal with... Denethor liking Boromir better... Faramir does NOT try to please Denethor... he follows what he feels to be right... Mithrandir's council... which is what sets him apart from his father... who would refuse to give up the stewardship... and his brother... who thought he could take and control the ring by force... and this new idea... will ruin Faramir's character.

however, i suppose i cant have much objection to... a new character in the movie... who just... takes Faramir's place and name... hey... its not tolkien... but thats just it, the movie ISNT tolkien... and if he alienates all his JRR fans... well... that is his problem....

[A! Elbereth]

I'm going to Barnes and Noble this weekend..... I MUST LOOK AT THAT BOOK....

[Bess the Bard]

While I think this one issue is probably getting a lot more attention than we will think it deserves after we have seen the movie, it has been interesting. So I will heap my little bit of fuel on the Faramir fire (or is that pyre? No, that's ROTK.)


In an interview with someone connected with TTT quite awhile ago, it was mentioned that the encounter with Faramir would be more tense and even a little "rougher" than in the book. From that, I expected Faramir's threatening moment after Sam mentions the Ring to be quite drawn out.

Check the passage in the book. Tolkien wants us to have a bad moment or two, while it appears Faramir could turn into his brother. It's called dramatic tension, suspense. The hobbits jump up and stand with the backs to the wall and go for their swords. All the voices of the other rangers go silent. What's going to happen? The hobbits don't know, in that moment, what Faramir will do--he's clearly being tempted by the Ring. Then he recovers, showing he is a better man than Boromir.

It doesn't bother me that PJ wants to extend that moment, even over a few scenes, before Faramir comes to his senses. I have to admit I did not expect it to become The Tempation of Faramir, the Roadshow to Osgiliath! That seems to draw the moment of suspense out too far. Because if Faramir goes too far on that road, in time or distance, it's not going to be believable when he steps back from the temptation at last.

But I did want to point out that Tolkien himself, (for the space of about a paragraph), wanted us, and Frodo to doubt what Faramir would do. PJ is enlarging that moment, but not inventing it out of whole cloth.

Bess the Bard

[A! Elbereth]

Great assumptions... or should I say information you have there! :thumbs:

[Bess the Bard]

Well, you know what happens when you assume.....

[A! Elbereth]

yeah... actually I do... I take it back AWESOME INFO! ;) lol

[NoldoR]

I hope that the sewers won't be long. mabye just a few hundred feet if we are lucky. Though it is probably several thousand feet. If they leave out that scene when Sam sees the oliphant, then i must say i am really sad. for that is, imo, one of the best moments in the book. they have been traveling for long, without any hope. and that day in ithilien really lighten up their minds and kept them going.

[Undomiel]

thing is I know there's a clip from TTT (i think it's on the DVD but it could be a trailer) where Frodo says something along the lines of "The ring cannot save Gondor nor you" Something like that. And he's struggling to get away, and i hoped that he wasnt talking to Faramir, but who else could it be. It's just such a disappointment to have one of my fave characters changed so dramatically.
However, i'm hoping that it may not come across so badly when we actually see it

[A! Elbereth]

Well NoldoR, the Oliphaunt is in the trailer, so I guess Sam will see it. And Undomiel, I am pretty certain Frodo is talking to Faramir at that particular point.

[NoldoR]

A! Elbereth:

yeah! hopfully they will see it. but it might just aswell be a mumakil from harad near osgiliath maching towards pellenor.

[A! Elbereth]

I hope not....

but I saw a gigantic pic of an elephant and PJ wasn't even taller than his foot, and it was lying down dead... (of course it wasnt real) I do believe Sam will see it

[Undomiel]

yeah i hope so. I really want him to say his oliphaunt poem, but he probably wont :( i think it makes Sam seem v sweet lol

[Lady Ashley]

I know! I was like, "I think that's an elephaunt," when I first read it. It DOES make him seem sweet. He's just a simple gardener hobbit, but underneath is someone you don't mess with!

Even PJ couldn't mess with Sam's character!!

[Hans_Schuder]

Hee Hee :) Well, I'm glad I'm not joining the funeral pyre then.

Like I wrote in another forum, hopefully, the changes won't prove as difficult to assimilate once we see the film, and if the film itself is great, we'll all be able to enjoy it.

Here's the link to the dead Mumak BTW: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pics/mammoth.jpg