Identifying languages

[Orkybash]

Here's something I've always wondered... short of learning Quenya and Sindarin, is there a way to differentiate between the two? I've always wondered, for example, exactly what language they're speaking in the movie.

Thanks!

[Dawnnamira Nerwen]

That's a great question. Hope someone answers!

[Isiltári]

The easiest way to differentiate between the two languages is to develop just a basic familiarity with the languages -- you don't have to learn them, but just reading some phrases will sort of demonstrate the differences in the spellings and phonetics of each language.

For example, look at the differences between this phrase in each language:

"Waters of the Misty Mountains, listen to the great word; flow waters of Loudwater against the Ringwraiths!"

Sindarin:
Nîn o Chithaeglir, lasto beth daer; Rimmo nîn Bruinen, dan in Ulaer!

Quenya:
Neni orontion hísiëo, á lasta i taura quetta; á sirë neni rómaneno ana Úlairi!

The spelling and formation in each languages is quite different.

A few other basic ways to differentiate between the two languages:

1. A good example of different phonetic spellings: "ae" is only used in Sindarin; Quenya uses "ai" to produce the same sound ("i" as in "bite").
Example
Sindarin: Ulaer
Quenya: Úlairi

2. Sindarin allows for consonant clusters at the beginning of words (beginning a word with two or more consonants); Quenya does not:
Example:
Sindarin: Chithaeglir
Such a formation would be impossible in Quenya, as words can begin in Quenya with only one consonant. If you're reading an Elvish phrase that contains a word that begins with more than one consonant, you'll know that it is Sindarin.

3. Quenya words that end in consonants can ONLY end in one of five different consonants: -l, -n, -r, -s, or -t. If you see a word ending in a different consonant, you'll know it is Sindarin.
Example:
Sindarin: beth
This word must be Sindarin because it ends in "h."

4. While the letter "y" can only represent a consonant in Quenya, it can represent a vowel in Sindarin.


I hope that helps! If anything else comes to mind, I'll be sure to post it in this topic.

Namárië!

[Dawnnamira Nerwen]

wow, thanks. That helps a lot!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

another question... for someone brilliant... does Sindarin use the accents to mark a long vowel or an e at the end of the word? If not, what do accents in Sindarin signify?

[Wilwarin]

Hey good work, Isil! :thumbs: I would just like to add a note here.
Sindarin also uses "ai" as well as "ae". They make the same sound. For instance, beraid, "towers". So you know that a word with "ae" is Sindarin, but words with "ai" are not always Quenya.


Here are a few more differences:

There is no "qu" in Sindarin.

Sindarin has no "c" between vowels such as in Quenya Calacirya.

Sindarin has no "t" between vowels, such as in Quenya Tániquetil.

Quenya words do not start with "g", such as in Sindarin "Galadriel.

Quenya words do not start with "b", such as in Sindarin "Balrog.

The double consonent "dh" only occurs in Sindarin, such as in Caradhras.

Also, Sindarin words rarely end in vowels. Exceptions include the imperative form of a verb, such as lasto "listen!"

Hope this helps some. :thumbs:

[Wilwarin]

That is a good question, Tar!

Sindarin words do not usually end in "e". When they do, such as in le "thou" there is no mark. So if you see an Elvish word with this kind of ë at the end, then it is Quenya.

Sindarin uses all other marks to signify long vowels. Such as in "dûr", "mán" and "glîn". But Sindarin uses far less long vowels than Quenya does.

Does that answer your question?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yep... um correct me if I'm wrong, but Quenya doesn't use the circumflex, right?

[Wilwarin]

I don't think so. But you'll have to ask Isil for a correct and for sure answer. I'm probibly wrong anyway!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

probibly so... roflmao...

Kidding!!! i couldnt resist, Wil, I'm sure you are right. :)

[Wilwarin]

You sure like to pick on me, don't you?

No hard feelings! :smooch:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I'm gonna start again... your PM box is full mecry

go clean it out!! Oh, and go ahead and send the avatar... and are you sure you have my right addy?? Cuz I havent gotten one from you in a while!!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Orkybash
I've always wondered, for example, exactly what language they're speaking in the movie. heh I'll answer this if I am wrong someone is sure to correct me! :grin: lol

They speak Sindarin in the movie, except for where Gandalf and Saruman are arguing on Caradhras, this is Quenya... right? ;)

[Isiltári]

In later Quenya, the circumflex was not used.

Instances of Quenya in the movie:
Saruman's spell at Caradhras
Gandalf's spell at the Moria Gate
Galadriel's one word -- Namárië

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yeah yeah yeah... thanks :rolleyes:

KIDDING! thanks isil :) i luv ya gurl...

[Isiltári]

lol Tar, you're so funny.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

awwww *feels loved* lol