Preservation of Species: Ents

[Algamesh]

I've been studying the Two Towers quite in depth recently and I am currently making my third trip through Chapter 4 within the last couple of months. Something really bothers me in this chapter ...

Everything that lives has a "built-in" drive to preserve and expand the population of it's inherent species. Why then are the Ents immune from this requirement. To me ... it seems that the Entwives and the Ents were too worried about their own environmental surroundings and were not concerned enough with future generations. I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert on Ent Reproduction but I assume that it requires a male/female connection through either physical contact or pollenation :naughty: !

Anyone else find this a bit absurd that the Ents couldn't compromise for the sake of continuing their species?

[Catz]

:elfeek: lol i may never be able to think of pollination with a straight face again.........thanks Algy:rolleyes: lol lol
it kind of depends........being as long lived as they were , perhaps Ents had a very long reproductive cycle.....actually in a purely biological sense they had to, since their population replacement requirements were so low....they would have had to reproduce very sporadically
they may have thought that there was plenty of time and gotten caught out by events, with the entwives losing contact as they did...thats my theory anywaylol
:catz:

[Bonos-Girl]

well...they do last for a VERY long time....although the events of LOTR aren't exactly short to us, they are to the ents so they probably wouldn't have time to 'reproduce' during this period. I assume they would take a long time over this like everything else they do?!

[Firith Evenstar]

good question/theories.

it bother me too algy. i agree that the ents could have had a long gestation period...but, I'm not so sure I go along with the whole, didn't have time thing. they knew they needed to reproduce in order to thrive, so its a bit of an enigma.

or, maybe the entwives just got fed up with the way the ent..males...never shut up when they spoke?

"If you don't stop hoom hooming and having you're little "gatherings", I'm leaving you!!"

[Lurtz]

i almost cried when i was reading about how they weren't gonna be around much longer...v v sad...maybe the entwives didn't care about the future and were selfish for themselves or something...who knows...

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Well... IMO, Tolkein didn't really think about this too much. LotR is supposed to be a mythilogical pre-history, right? Well, Ents aren't around today, so he had to explain their disappearence somehow... just maybe he didn't do a very good job of it. I guess it never occured to him that a real species would never do something as... erm... careless as this.

[Bonos-Girl]

maybe they were all suicidal!!

[Lurtz]

if you notice, the only race that is around today is men...maybe this is the "second life" that men were promised in the sil...or maybe this isn't and hobbits are around and they are just hiding, and dwarves are around and are in their caves, and elves are dead *SCORE!*

[Orc]

I have a theory on this one....

If memory serves, Yavanna created the ents and not Illuvatar.

After Aule created the dwarves, Illuvatar was not ammused as only he could embue things with the Flame Imperishable.

Therefore, if Illuvatar had nothing to do with the creation of the Ents, and the Valar could not create entities with the Flame Imperishable, then the Ents would be fairly unique and it may explain why they lack this drive.

[Mirkgirl]

Yeah, Orc I think in that direction as well.
I agree with catz tho they thought they had all the time in the world to reunite.
But why we say it's hard to believe that a race wouldn't make a compromise in the name of the future generation we have to keep in mind that the ents aren't quite like the other races. They were 'created' by the song of Yavanna I think? correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway she wanted someone to take care for the helpless olvar(the plants). So they are the only race which lives to help the others. In the light of this fact it doesn't seem so unbelievable that their instinctst aren't that strong.
We can see that in TLotR as well:
"For Ents are more like Elves: less interested in themselves than Men are, and better at getting inside other things. And yet again Ents are more like Men, more changeable than Elves are, and quicker at taking the colour of the outside, you might say. Or better than both: for they are steadier and keep their minds on things longer."
The ents seem to think too much for the others(meaning plants) and they think long enough to be caught out unprepared by the events.

[Lessa]

Perhaps it's something similar to the Panda situation in the wild. They are very reclusive even from their own kind. It is difficult to find a mate when the conditions are conducive to reproduction and so wild numbers are dwindling and could possibly die out in the not to distant future. Loss of environment is also a factor which will play a role.
My point is that lack of positive family planning is not always a factor in the behaviour of a species. Even to the detriment of it's very existance.

Lessa

[Daisy Gamgee]

I don't really have any new insights - as been said before, the Ents probably thought they'd get round to breeding one day, so didn't rush it. One question I do have though, if the Ents were made to look after the other plants, why are they found only in Fangorn?

[Mirkgirl]

It hasn't always been that way. According to Treebeard's words back in the days the ents used to wander a lot. But at the time of LotR very few had left and so on. No one can blame them for settling down after all that happened.

[Tinuviel]

my question is... any real idea where the entwives ended up?

I know they seperated because of the difference in where their interest and cares lie... but doesn't it strike anyone that it seem deliberate on the entwives' part not to be found?

Or more specifically, why couldnt they be found?

Any answer from UT? I only read it once, and cannot remember any reference about this.
:(

PS: sorry to just jump in like this.... have really lapsed in my contributions here since i got crazybusy!

[Mirkgirl]

Welcome back, Tuni (-: Good to have you back

Nope UT doesn't say anything on the question...

IMO if there were any entwives left in Middle Earth they'd be in the Shire, but that's just an opinion

[Lurtz]

if the entwives DID come back, and the ents like started having babies...how long would the gestation period be?

[Lessa]

Wow it never even crossed my mind. So pass.

Lessa

[Mathew6]

hmm....maybe i shouldn't have posted that lol i think i killed the thread...

[Orc]

Originally posted by Lurtz
if the entwives DID come back, and the ents like started having babies...how long would the gestation period be?

TREE SEX!?! Oh ICK!!! roflmao

but would they actually have sex or just polinate? And given the number of seeds a tree can produce in a season, would they all be ents? Would the parents protect their young from squirels and other furry animals that would eat the seeds?

It's a very strange road you're directing us down here Lurtz......lol

[Bonos-Girl]

i think they'd probably polinate rather than have sex.....quite a disgusting idea..euwww!!

i don't know about your other questions...sorry!!! lol

[Lady Melody]

In the book LOTR, it is explained that although the ents and entwives are the same species, they have little in common when it comes to interests... The entwives loves to tend to gardens, etc and the ents the another matter... Anyway, one day, the entwives just dissapeared... and the dunno whattodo next.

And if I get my facts right, ents are really, really unhasty people... the hoo hummm alot, and it takes days for them to decide anything... maybe they're embarassed or something in courting entwives...(as other species) and they never get to the point of doing it until it was far too late...

Moral: Never postpone any job, you might lose a wife later.

[Adunauriel]

It is a very weird Question Lurtz presented. One sadly (or, greatfully depending on how you feel) that there doesn't seem to be an answer to....;)

[Lady Melody]

I'd honestly prefer the thought that they just pollinate.

[Lurtz]

yeah...maybe i shouldn't have posted that q lol ha ha ha