Shelob

[Legolas Greenleaf]

I dont know if this has already been posted, but I'll do it anyway. I just read some of the latest news about ROTK, and they moved pieces of the second book to the third movie! They moved when Sam and Frodo encounter Shelob to the begining of ROTK!! They also deleted The Scouring of the Shire. AAARG! :angry: verymad pfbbt

[Belaqua]

Its evil and wrong. They can't take that away from the hobbits! Its their chance to prove they can manage without Leggy and Aragorn and the other miscellanious characters they meet along the way who battle and aren't really important.

[Sindarin]

It is evil and wrong. :evil: So very wrong. verymad

[Tar-Ancalimë]

look guys! the movie can't be more than three hours, you know he has a large audience composed of people who have never read the books! Also of people who aren't obssesed over Tolkien. Also, come on, people who haven't read the books would be screaming with fury if PJ left a cliffhanger like the one in the books... it's best for a movie, really, to end on a good note, if it plans to have an audience who aren't going to watch TTT for the potential "horror"... tho it may have some of this, it would seriously be a faux pas to end it with Frodo's capture... and then say bye bye to a lot of the audience because they didn't like the ending! About the Scouring, I am a little upset over this, but some things have to be cut out, and that's that, guys! Stop dissing PJ because his movie doesn't conform in every little aspect to how you think it should be. If you'd like to go try making a better movie, good luck, but I think we ought to allow PJ a little tolerance here, instead of going on about how the movie should be, and about how "evil" this is... sure, the hobbits are in their element, and it's an important point to make, about how Mordor has spread beyond its borders... but this isn't essential for the movie. It's nice to have themes and symbols in movies, but a movie is a movie, not a book, and as such it can't establish everything a book can! A movie is not supposed to be like the book... it has its own points to make, its own images to establish. I mean, come on, they left Tom out of FotR... some people yelled but since they had to leave something out, that was the best choice... and it still made a superb movie

[Algamesh]

Well ... I agree with you Tar ... the movie has to cut/paste like crazy to fit production requirements, BUT, without a doubt ... the Scourging is essential to Tolkien's main and ending theme.

PJ is making a fine set of movies ... entertaining, full of familiarities, but ... if one is looking for most of Tolkien's underlying themes ... one will be dissappointed a bit.

No dis to PJ ... he has really created some masterful eye-candy for Tolkien-fans AND those other people ;).

[Tar-Ancalimë]

mm exactly but isnt that the point of the movie? i mean, the scouring is important in the book, but i still wish people were less hyper about changes in the movie. ofc this might be a little hypocritical of me but still...

anyway thanks algamesh...

[TheRingBearer]

That's the perfect statement... its evil and wrong ;)

[Orkybash]

*repeats mantra to self*

Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
Trust in Peter Jackson...
:)

[Belaqua]

i think i'll have to join you
pj can do it
pj can do it
pj can do it

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by TheRingBearer
its evil and wrong ;) puh-LEEZ!!! Maybe its wrong but did you read my post at all??? its NOT evil!! :battle: and ill fight anyone who thinks it is!! :archer:

j/k, mostly

[Catz]

lol i think "evil" might be a little strong.....but anyway......this is a movie were talking about...it cannot and will not be exactly the same as the book...if it was why would you bother seeing it?
let the book be itself and the movie be itself....different but complementary.....and besides, we havent even seen it yet.....so its kind of harsh to judge it already.....lol lol
:catz:

[Aerandir]

They're destroying the movie! ARGH!

~Aerandir

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Catz
let the book be itself and the movie be itself....different but complementary..... yes catz, wow that's exactly the way to look at it :)




sometimes, Aerandir, I feel as though they are ruining the movie... but like catz said, we haven't even seen it yet! :);)lol

[Bonos-Girl]

yeah....give it a chance...if you still think it ruined the film after you've seen it then thats fine but just don't judge things before you've sen them.

[Pil]

:thumbs: I admit that the movement of events from book to book has been...frustrating for us lotr readers...but i'm thinking i'll keep most judgements until after i've seen it...it's fun to speculate and moan a bit about what might happen...but catz is right...even if they are different...different isn't bad...having a film of lotr strengthens the whole story and fan base...a few changes here and there is nothing to really be angry about...:p

Can't wait for rotk to come out so that we can all make proper judgements! :brave: :( lol

[Aragorn Isildur]

Hmm...Im surprised nobody noticed this point....Run off to your dvd/tape player and fast forward to the Mirror of Galadriel scene. Ok, notice the scene where Sam is in chains? Is it unreasonable to assume they shot something of the Scouring? Hello?!? *knock knock* Special edition anyone? ;)

Aragorn:king:

[A! Elbereth]

Nope, sorry but that was confirmed that the in Mirror of Galadriel was the only time we would catch a glmpse of the Scouring.

Now Shelob... what about the TTT soundtrack? The titles are quite suspicious... I think PJ is trying to torture us :fanboy:

[Daisy Gamgee]

It could work as part of a Special Edition. That would be cool, and when they confirmed that there would be no more scouring in, they could just have meant the theatrical releases. They've changed alot of FOTR for the special edition, and its apparently alot truer to the book - chances are they'll do that with all 3, and so who knows, the scouring could be in after all!! Not that we'll find out for another 2 years lol

[Bonos-Girl]

i thought they'd confirmed htat we wouldn't see any more of the scouring after galadriels mirror even in the special releases as A!E said...sorry!!

[Daisy Gamgee]

No need to apologise Bono's Girl, I just thought A!E meant that they had confirmed it just for the theatrical release, and didn't mention the special edition. Oh well, I'm sure the ending will be something special however it gets done

[Beorhtnoth]

So, no scouring. Sad news indeed, though hardly surprising; to have a big climax and then an extended coda in the movie might not work. I wonder what will be the fate of Saruman, if this is the case. He won't diminish into Sharkey, I guess. I suppose this is another reason why Jackson excised the gift-giving scene: so we wouldn't get to see Sam's box with the mallorn seed.

[Aerandir]

Originally posted by Aragorn_Isildur
Hmm...Im surprised nobody noticed this point....Run off to your dvd/tape player and fast forward to the Mirror of Galadriel scene. Ok, notice the scene where Sam is in chains? Is it unreasonable to assume they shot something of the Scouring? Hello?!? *knock knock* Special edition anyone? ;)

Aragorn:king:


Ah...interesting point. I did notice that scene, though. hehe.

~Aerandir

[Orkybash]

Yeah, but that was PJ's tribute to the scouring just so he didn't ignore it entirely. It's not a sign of things to come so much as an apology for leaving out those things to come!

[Brindlescruff]

I have been told that the reasons Peter Jackson moved Shelob to the third movie was because without The Scouring, Frodo and Sam do not have enough action, which is true. Yes, he has that one seen, the climax...YOU know what I'm talking about... but aside from that, it's a lot of walking. They took out the Scouring because yes, that would feel like the movie had two climaxes and two endings and you can just hear the critics saying "it keep going and going!"
::sigh::
I agree that leaving the Scouring in is not a good approach to the movie, but I consider Shelob to be the greatest cliffhanger of all time, pity Peter did not leave it in.

Anyways, there's also the idea that all these rumours were started by Peter himself, to throw us off guard. This is what you get when you have a such a loyal fanbase: we all know what's coming. If Peter started the rumour that Shelob in ROTK and The Scouring's gone and Saruman's spikey-wheely-dealy is ture, and then it's not, we are surprised indeed!

So, this way, everyone is caught off guard when the watch the movies. We Tolkienites think he tricked us, but think it was good, and the normal people in the world don't know they saw anything different.

The people who did "Survivor" did the same thing, remember? The producer himself started an online rumour saying the lazy blakc guy won, so that the audience was caught off guard when the fat gay nudist won....I think Peter may be doing the same thing, starting his own rumours to get us loyals talking about it... Publicity, puclicity, publicity!!!

Comments, anyone?
~brindlescruff

[Aragorn Isildur]

Good point.....and didnt PJ cart off the crew back to NZ to reshoot some stuff for FoTR and TTT? Who's to say he hasnt and wont shoot the Scouring?
And another point, if that fleeting glimpse was PJ's tribute to the Scouring the set looked a little elaboarate for a 2 second flash...

Aragorn:king:

[Bonos-Girl]

he only went and reshot bits that needed redoing i think...sorry.

[Orkybash]

Plus, they destroyed the Hobbiton set, so there's no going back there!

Rumor has it, though, that among the various death scenes of Saruman filmed one took place in the Shire!

[A! Elbereth]

Originally posted by Aragorn_Isildur
Hmm...Im surprised nobody noticed this point....Run off to your dvd/tape player and fast forward to the Mirror of Galadriel scene. Ok, notice the scene where Sam is in chains? Is it unreasonable to assume they shot something of the Scouring? Hello?!? *knock knock* Special edition anyone? ;)

Aragorn:king:

But isn't that kind of.... not in relation to the book? Sam was never in chains...

[Isiltári]

Well, just like Boromir's death was moved from the beginning of TTT to the end of the FotR movie, I guess it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the ending of the TT movie will be different from the book as well. However...Shelob was such a cool way to end TTT.

[A! Elbereth]

Not to mention an overly depressing way....mecry

I cried so hard I'm surprised my eyes didn't swim into the back of my head.. :o

[NoldoR]

Galadriels mirror does not necessary show things that will happen. It tells the future, but many things can change the future. That sam in chains thing might be if the fellowhip would have failed.

[A! Elbereth]

I'm really stupid to not have thought of that. :blush:

[Tary]

They can not leave out the shire part it was so good it let you see what hobbits can do.

[Sharky]

Just a thought, but seeing how half the shire was dug up in 'Scouring' and replaced with ugly sheds, there doesn't nessesarily have to be the original Hobbiton set to film in.

In the SE commentary's PJ says he still has Bag End in storage, it could still be done.

*Sharky clutches straws*

[Orkybash]

Yeah, it could still be filmed.

But now we know that Sam never gets his box of earth... plus, PJ seemed pretty intent on leaving it out, that it really had very little to do with the story arc of the war of the ring and thus wouldn't work very well in the film.

[PippaUK]

tho one can hope he has actually filmed it, but will not be shown until he release the complete box set of LOTR, with extra scenes addded into all 3 movies! Box of earth can be given to sam, saruaman can still live until he is double crossed and the scouring can be in! (i can hope anyway) its not like it cant be done, they did it to star wars plenty of times!

[Sméagol]

Well guys, lets just hope he does the scene and puts it in the dvd and we get a 4 hour DVD!:p

[Nessa]

I'm a little confused......... The title of this thread is "Shelob" but everyone's been talking about The Scouring?

[Veefy]

My question:

Will Shelob be totally cgi or totally animatronic? Or a combination of both? Any spy reports on this around?

I am thinking they might have used an animatronic Shelob or at least front half of it (heads front legs) something to interact with Frodo - like in the bit where he gets injected with the venom for instance or cocooned in the web to get the interaction right and then added partial cg overlay so that those closeup interactions fit in with the wide shots that I would presume may be all cgi.

It does depend on what scale Shelob is to the hobbits probably at least twice as big as them but hopefully not too massive to lose believability.

[TheRingBearer]

New News:

"LOTR: The Return of the King: 'Jay' talked with a source within WETA very early in the New Year who has news that some might find a little disheartening: "This time around '******' worked on Gollum. He explained all of the difficulty and the basic problems that they had to work around. To make a long story short, I asked him if he was to continue working on Gollum or if he would get to work on Shelob. He told me that he didn't know and that they had not even started to work on Shelob at all. The rumor that the upcoming trailer would have images of Shelob are most likely incorrect from what I have been told. Although the principal shooting had been done, the special effects won't be finished until the release".

Looks like we won't be seeing Shelob for a while :(

[ImDaMom]

Don't you think "EVIL" is a little harsh? How many of you have read other novels, loved by millions, and then converted into films? I'm thinking of 2 of my favorites, To Kill A Mockingbird, and Gone with the Wind. 2 beloved novels. In TKAM, we lose an important, yet peripheral character in Atticus' sister. There is no fire in the neighborhood. These were important parts, yet, in the movie (which won a best pic) they don't exist, but the movie is superb. No one who has not read the book notices. In GWTW, Scarlett has a child by her first husband. This child appears NOWHERE in the movie. Important to Scarlett's motivation? Yes. Important enough to make a 4 hour movie longer? No. She and Rhett try to buildi respectability in the city. Minimized in the movie. A change, of course. Evil? Of course not. Again, no one who has not read the books notices.
Enjoy the movies for what they are. An almost totally faithful retelling of a favorite tale. Is the scouring important? Yes. As a movie element? Not really. The story can come to a satisfying end after the coronation. We've got almost a full year. Don't spend it obsessing about what he MIGHT do. Enjoy what you have and don't be too hung up on things that may never come to pass. Who knows, it may end so beautifully that you dont even miss the scouring. And (To quote Gandalf) That is an encouraging thought.

[River Daughter II]

One thing everybody needs to remember is that the separations between the three books was an editorial thing...originally, LotR was a 1200+ page novel, and they wouldn't have published it unless they could split it up. As they explained to Tolkien, no publisher will publish a novel of that length now. Just ain't done!

[Alatar]

Truth in full

[legolaslover]

Aiyee Shelob looks really scary....I am totaly freaked out by spiders..a REALLY big one isnt gonna help it... hehe

[Daeron]

I suspect that shelob, like the Barlog before her, will be kept under wraps for as long as possible. Certainly, I will be doing all I can to avoid Shelob picture spoilers, so I get 'maximum' impact when I finally get to see the film :-)

As for the scouring; I'd be totally surprised if that ever made it into the film, be it cinema release, DVD or special edition. Certainly one of the commentry tracks on the special edition FotR DVD referred to the vision in Galadriel's mirror as an 'homage' to the scouring - strongly implying (to my mind) that it was never in the treatment, or the scripts.

Within the context of the films, the story of the Lord of the Rings is the story of the Ring itself, and the Hobbits are just players like everyone else. The scouring doesn't fit into that view because once the ring is destroyed, the story is basically over.

I don't see it as a bad thing for the film - the scouring is viewed by many as an interesting but somewhat rushed and unnecessary coda. When I say unnecessary, I mean the scouring is not necessary to the story of the ring.

[Frodo284]

Originally posted by Nessa
I'm a little confused......... The title of this thread is "Shelob" but everyone's been talking about The Scouring?

i think they should make an animantronic...they look a lot better.. I'm not a total fan of cgi or at least until they look more like gollum.. Ttreebeard looked great as a robot until they showed the shot of him walking through the wooods from far away and you could tell it was a blue screen and it looked kind of silly. Animantronics are scarier though..but i don't care as long as it is there...now to point up on everthing that everyone is freaking over the shire....I agree with the majority of you who say that PJ is rumoring...i don't agree with whoever made the critic remark about how it gos on and on...critics are overwhelmed with this movie and nothing it does is going to make them look down except for the others who already do....Most of them have probably read the book and will want to see it in there..i wouldn't be suprised if they critisizied it more for it not being in it. i think a lot of the shots we have seen like wormtongue holding the knife loking ****ed off...i know alot of you don't know what i'm talking about but there is a pic of him on the ground of orthanc loking realy really mad holding a knife..i think they are al set up and like someone said earlier,,,,it's all for publicity. Now about the seeds. i haven't read the return of the king yet but i just got to the part in the fellowship where she gave him the seeds. now to leave that out in the extended edition is another mislead. There will be a way he gets them. i don't know how but i just have a strong feeling it will be there. You readers KNOW that the scouring is a CRUICIAL part to the story for thematic reasons and story alone. Galadriels hints and the vision in the mirror. the chains on sam.. Pippins remark about the fires spreading. I know several things have been changed like liv tyler but her taking frodo to rivendell was probably added not only for hollywood but for the love story...how many movies today do you see without a love story...that is just more for audientced who haven't read the books. The casting thing i've read from most of you and someone answered what i would have said...they either wll spice it up for hollywood or they haven't casted him yet..the prince dude or whoever you all said. It's nothing to worry about ...only 305 days left....if we see saruman die in the middle of the movie then we know the scouring isn't in it or it's story has been changed. Just wait for the trailer and i'm sure he'll sneak a clip of something in for just a split second to make us talk more....

[Frodo284]

oh and one other thing.....as gandalf said in FOTR .....do not be to quick to judge......my heart tells me that PJ has a bigger part to play in this tale that we know of right now

[Bard]

i doubt in every way that they will leave shelob out, it is essential. but i still don't see why they couldn't have ended the two towers as it ends in the book. Sam realizes his mistake leaving Frodo as dead, and rushes to his rescue. it is almost implied at the end that there is still hope for frodo, and would have worked a lot better I think. anyway, they have a lot on their plates for RotK if they want to do it justice! --Cirith Ungol, shelob the orc tower, isengard and the breaking of saruman, muster of rohan, paths of the dead, minas tirith seige, pelennor fields, mordor and the crossroads, cormallen, mt. doom (of course they have to leave scouring out: unbelievably annoying)-- I don't see how they'll do it.
:dragon: :archer:

[Rock26]

Perhaps she will look like this..... shelob model (http://theannex.curvedspaces.com/html/rotknews.html)

[Frodo284]

interseting....where do you allfind these pictures/???

[Rock26]

Off of a link on the Fool of a Took site. Kind of hard to see anything, though. Just looks like a fat spider.