Exactly what happens to Frodo?

[A! Elbereth]

I finished reading the 3rd book not long ago... and I've got to say... It moved me in every way you could think of... And I was dying becuase they dont even say in the apendix what happens to frodo!!! They tell tons of stuff about what happens in Middle-Earth afterwards with a time line... and they say how Sam became Mayor 7 times and how Pippin was famous and how they died.... but they said absolutely nothing about Frodo. Does anyone know what became of him? I cant stand it!:-(

[Gil-Galad]

Personal opionon: He went over the sea to the undying land and lived there forever soothing away the hurt that he took from the ring. It would be unfair if he died there, dont you think?

[A! Elbereth]

died where?

[Gil-Galad]

In the undying lands

[A! Elbereth]

Undying as in doesnt die....... He wouldnt be able to die there

[Mirkgirl]

I don't think there's such a big difference between death and forever life in the Undying lands, just substitute the hobbits for elves and as Frodo was closer to the elves (accepted as closer)

[Fatty]

I think alas that Frodo would have passed from the undying lands. Hobbits were not immortal, even the valar could not make them so. Whether they shared the fate of men to dwell beyond the circles ofth eworld no one knows.

But the books say that Frodo would have went to rest and heaal his hurts for a while at least before passing on. Mortal lives burn faster in some way in the undying lands. Brighter yes, but faster too. Indeed this is much of irony of the Fall of Numenor, since had they gained mastery of the western lands they would not have had the immortality they craved. Rather their lives would have shortened, as the power of those lands was like oxygen to a flame.

[Mirkgirl]

Maybe it's a bit hasty to judge wether the Valar could or could not give the hobbits immortality as we don't actually know who the hobbits are...

[Fatty]

Ah yeas but we know tha tonly the one could give or take immortality and we know that the hobbits were not immortal. Old Tolkien says as much o the subject.

It is an interesting area though.

[Mirkgirl]

Frodo's fate somehow tore him off his hobbit self, I think he would fit more with the elves, Gandalf, etc... So we can assume that the one has reasons to give him immortality? or not?

[Fatty]

No well, I agree he was different, but Tolkien specifically says that they would not become immortal or dwell in the undying lands forver. He says they would go there for a while to heal and then pass on.........

[Fatty]

That is not to say him and Sam dissappeared, but rather like men their fate is hidden from all but Eru. They definetly did not stay in Valinor though..........but we can still shout .."Frodo Lives"....or at least he will always do in our minds and hearts :-)

[A! Elbereth]

Then i must say.... I feel quite sorry for Frodo even tho he is a fictional charater. He barely will get to have a happy day without remembering his friends, not being able to see them ever again... I sure hope they dont die faster.... :-(

[A! Elbereth]

Aww fatty.... your great :) thats a wonderful thing to say :) (literally)

[Mirkgirl]

I don't see Frodo among the other hobbits, but maybe Eru would have known where he'd feel better

[A! Elbereth]

I do think He'd be lonely.... Yes Frodo was always the more mature one, but he's gotta have some fun and not even the least serious of the fellows with him could give him what Sam and his friends could

[Mirkgirl]

I don't say hobbits are imature or that Frodo is death serious... just he would carry the scars of the ring forever and I doubt he'd find peace with the hobbits

[Fatty]

Ah yesd but Sam joined him in Valinor too. He departed over the Sea after his wife died.

[A! Elbereth]

But it says in Return of the King that Sam died in Hobbiton

[Mirkgirl]

Here we really have a tie - one side I don't see any reason for Sam to stay (except for his forever reason - cause they didn't see me and I was close to master Frodo)... but to have him die and Frodo stay doesn't sound right.

Maybe Frodo did die :huh:

[Fatty]

Ah no it does not, if you read the appendix it says his wife Rosie died and Sam gave the Red book to his daughter and then went to the Grey Havens and passed over the sea. Last of the Ringbearers............Quite sad really..

[A! Elbereth]

no I'm saying... after I read the 3rd book I read alittle about what happens afterwards and its said that Sam was elected Mayor 7 times and ooooooooh I think His daughter (Elanor) was that last that saw him and i think he left! Let me check my book is right here *Intermission* OH YEAHHHHH Sam did go to where Frodo was! hehe :o) YAY! my Apologies

[A! Elbereth]

yeah I JUST read that...... I always get so teary when I think about the end... Its one of those more sad than happy endings....although its a good ending becuase the rings is destroyed... but otherwise man.. what a bummer:-(

[Catz]

well.....with regard to the Hobbits being granted immortality, i have to agree with Fatty.....JRR was pretty emphatic if you look at what he wrote, suggesting that they did not......
In Frodos case....someone mentioned how lonely he would have been in Valinor.....frankly, after all he'd been thru, Frodo would have been lonely anywhere....that was why he left in the first place.....and, this is just my opinion, but i cant help thinking that eternal life would only have been a burden to Frodo....you can heal hurts, but not take away memories, and they were such a burden to him, that i think, once he saw Sam again, Frodo would have been happy to move on....to leave it behind....i think the real gift of the Undying lands to Frodo, was a peaceful death, with his closest friend at his side.....but then again, thats just my opinion.....
:catz:

[A! Elbereth]

I agree with you.... I never would have wanted him to live forever... and I also didnt want him to have die sooner than most Hobbits. I'm just happy that Sam decides to go to the undying lands to reunite with Frodo

[Pil]

Hey guys...read my story! I'll try to be as accurate with the limited details that tolkein provides...just read it ok! :)

[Beregond]

I read your story Pil, it's really good! Everyone should read it if they haven't yet.

I agree with catz about how Frodo would be lonely anywhere after everything he'd been through. The undying lands were just the best place for him.

[Pil]

I am going to assume that because Frodo goes to the undying lands...it means he doesn't die. Plus that means gimli doesn't die. Crap!!! Gimli annoys me! Does he annoy anyone else? :wicked:

[Mirkgirl]

Gimli doesn't annoy me, save for his friendship with a certain elf ( pfbbt ) ;)

Even if Frodo receives immortality still there is no way Gimli to receive it too... There are some reasons for the ringbearer, but none for the dwarf fellowship member (maybe he lived longer... or shorter, but not forever in any case)

[A! Elbereth]

I thought Gimli was a little hard headed...HAHAHA....but uh no he didnt annoy me

[Falmon]

Pil, people do die in the Undying Lands. The name is not "the Lands where all are Undying", but the "Undying Lands". It much like Gandalf's description of Lothlórien in the Hall of Théoden: "Unmarred, unstained is leaf and land ... ". Usually people don't die there of natural causes because usually there are no mortals for whom death was natural. Aman is blessed and deathless because the Deathless dwell there, not vice-versa.

In the Tolkien Letters, J. R. R. Tolkien makes it clear the mortals who went to Tol Eressëa or Valinor did indeed eventually die.

From letter 154: But the promise made to the Eldar (the High Elves -- not to other varieties, they had long before made their irrevocable choice, preferring Middle-earth to paradise) for their sufferings in the struggle with the prime Dark Lord had still to be fulfilled: that they should always be able to leave Middle-earth, if they wished, and pass over Sea to the True West, by the Straight Road, and so come to Eressëa -- but so pass out of time and history, never to return. The Half-elven, such as Elrond and Arwen, can choose to which kind and fate they shall belong: choose once and for all. Hence the grief at the parting of Elrond and Arwen.

But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions or accomodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel.

I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' -- of free will, and leave the world. (In this setting the return of Arthur would be quite impossible, a vain imagining.)

[A! Elbereth]

Yes... i thought we already decided that

[Beregond]

It will NEVER be decided.

[Catz]

well...i would have thought that the word of the creator of the world in question would have done that Beregond.....
Thanks for that quote Falmon.....:grin: ....i knew id read that passage somewhere:thumbs:
:catz:

[Beregond]

Okay okay . . . then it will be decided.

[Pil]

Thanx guys...cleared up a few things there (especially how legolas managed to sneak gimli in!) :)

[Bonos-Girl]

thanks, i always wondered how gimli got there.
i had this weird picture in my head of legolas stuffing gimli into a sports bag or something!!!!!

[A! Elbereth]

Did Tolkien ever explain why they couldn't return.... I feel like I skipped over the most important part of the book asking this but I have a very, very, horrible memory :)

[Sauron's Secret Agent]

Frodo suffered, if that is the word, the fate of many heroes, in that he saved the world, but was deeply damaged in the process. He was never able to settle happily in the Shire again as a result of his experiences.

I have always seen his departure from the Grey Havens as being in some sense a reward for his labours. Few other than Elves were able to sail, but this honour was granted to the Ringbearers. There doesn't seem to be any clear explanation of their future, but perhaps we don't need to know.

[A! Elbereth]

It is just me... or am i the only one who deeply feels sorry for Frodo (despite the fact he's my favorite everything)? Not that he has to leave... but that he was harmed in such a way? It really makes the story a good, but extremely sad ending mecry mecry

[Pil]

You've just got to think of it being...he got to leave and go to a REALLY COOL place and be at peace! :p

[A! Elbereth]

I know! but the fact he had to suffer! Awwww makes me feel bad for 'em

[Pil]

I dunno if he suffered really badly, he managed to overcome it though when he left... :)

[Lorien]

He He!!! Ok here it goes. Ok well you probably have all figured out what happens to Frodo at the end of The Return of the King. If not here is my theory. I believe that since he and Bilbo and Sam all wore the ring for a period of time they should recieve some kind of special award. I believe the award is eternity. When Frodo goes to the Grey Havens he gets on a boat with ELVES from the Elder days(similarion) especially Galadriel who lived in loriens gradens and doriath. If you are confused let me say this to help when frodo goes with the elves he is going to valar where he will live forever. sorry if this is to long. signing off! lorien

this goes for sam and bilbo

message me if you like my theory or say it openly.

[Ronin]

thats fantastic Polly, majoring in Lit at Uni...so hopefully i can soon talk about Tolkien without making vague references ;)

very well said Lorien...i'm just...rather confused...how does this apply to Sam?

[Lorien]

Sam wore the ring for a short period of time so he gets to go to valar

[Ronin]

how in the world do u figure that??

....because...it didn't happen!!

[A! Elbereth]

But Sam does where the ring.... after he leaves Frodo and he hides from the Orcs, remember? In the book.... ;)

[Ithielnor]

also sam does go to the Grey Havens.
Appendix B, Later Events Concering the Members of the FotR, 1482.
Death of Mistress Rosie, wife of Master Samwise, on Mid-Year's Day. On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over the sea, last of the Ring-bearers.

[Ronin]

i know sam wears the ring....but ah...thanks there Ithielnor...hehe...obviously i know not everything ;) lol

thanks illu also :rolleyes:

[Aragorn Isildur]

Since 5 of the 9 walkers ended up in the Undying Lands and only 2 of them had the gift of immortality, what did Legolas and Gandalf do when the other 3, 4 including Bilbo, passed away from there? Did they follow or did they stay in Valinor with the memories of losing there friends? I think it would have been difficult for Gandalf to see Bilbo go in particular.

Aragorn:king:

[Ronin]

wow...one trembles to even think of a situation...to see the passing of a friend altho the friendship that shall ever remain is undying.

[Mirkgirl]

This is an interesting thought... but the other side mathers more IMO. Not what Gandalf would feel when Bilbo dies, but where would Bilbo be happy? Would he enjoy eternal life among elves etc with his friends from the fellowship, or would he prefer to live with them for a while and then go to the place where hobbits go when they die and live among other hobbits? I think the answer to this question had guided Eru when he decided whether to grant immortality for the hobbits. Same goes for Gimli.

[A! Elbereth]

I trust Gandalf would feel some sorrow for any of the hobbits deaths - especially Bilbo and Frodo. Even though Gandalf is so old, and he sees immortals live their lives so quickly, he would feel more joy than sorrow in their passing. He would be glad to have known such wonderful beings. They would have died in peace - in happiness (one should hope).

[NoldoR]

It is told in the appendices that bilbo dies. one year older then the old took i think it was.

[Grond]

#246 From a letter to Mrs Eileen Elgar (drafts) September 1963
[A reply to a reader's comments on Frodo's failure to surrender the Ring in the Cracks of Doom.]
I think it is clear on reflection to an attentive reader that when his dark times came upon him and he was conscious of being 'wounded by knife sting and tooth and a long burden' (III 268) it was not only nightmare memories of past horrors that afflicted him, but also unreasoning self-reproach: he saw himself and all that he done as a broken failure. 'Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same, for I shall not be the same.' That was actually a temptation out of the Dark, a last flicker of pride: desire to have returned as a 'hero', not content with being a mere instrument of good. And it was mixed with another temptation, blacker and yet (in a sense) more merited, for however that may be explained, he had not in fact cast away the Ring by a voluntary act: he was tempted to regret its destruction, and still to desire it. 'It is gone for ever, and now all is dark and empty', he said as he wakened from his sickness in 1420.

'Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured', said Gandalf (III 268) – not in Middle-earth. Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him – if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.Frodo died.

[A! Elbereth]

I never thought he would be immortal, but I still am convinced that Frodo's life was extended to a point.

[Daisy Gamgee]

From the sounds of it, his life was extended to the point that he could die in peace, once he had managed to forget (if he ever could) what had happened, or once he had "mended" his soul, so that he no longer felt the same way about what had happened. IMO, he would always be reminded of events if he had remained in the shire, and would have had a tormented afterlife. Going to the Undying Lands allowed him to pass onto a peaceful after life.

[Elfdream]

I have a fancified idea that Sam and Frodo had as much time together in the Undying Lands as they did apart. About 50 years or so...but that is just my fancified imagination. Admit it...we all have at least one story that's is all our own and that one is mine. It helps me get through the havens scene.

;)

Elfdream

[Ronin]

Well, excellent ideas...all of u and surely an excellent introspective into what Tolkien gave us as a way to grieve with Frodo for his loss of innocense and his healing...that he might die in peace, and rest as such. it is our greatest hope.

[A! Elbereth]

Makes me happy and mournful :grin: mecry :rolleyes:

I like that suggestion, Elfdream! :thumbs:

[Grond]

Originally posted by A! Elbereth
I never thought he would be immortal, but I still am convinced that Frodo's life was extended to a point. I knew your statement here was correct but it has taken me a while to find the quote that supports it. from The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien, 325 From a letter to Roger Lancelyn Green 17 July 1971
The 'immortals' who were permitted to leave Middle-earth and seek Aman – the undying lands of Valinor and Eressëa, an island assigned to the Eldar – set sail in ships specially made and hallowed for this voyage, and steered due West towards the ancient site of these lands. They only set out after sundown; but if any keen-eyed observer from that shore had watched one of these ships he might have seen that it never became hull-down but dwindled only by distance until it vanished in the twilight: it followed the straight road to the true West and not the bent road of the earth's surface. As it vanished it left the physical world. There was no return. The Elves who took this road and those few 'mortals' who by special grace went with them, had abandoned the 'History of the world' and could play no further part in it.

The angelic immortals (incarnate only at their own will), the Valar or regents under God, and others of the same order but less power and majesty (such as Olórin = Gandalf) needed no transport, unless they for a time remained incarnate, and they could, if allowed or commanded, return.

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.

This general idea lies behind the events of The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, but it is not put forward as geologically or astronomically 'true'; except that some special physical catastrophe is supposed to lie behind the legends and marked the first stage in the succession of Men to dominion of the world. But the legends are mainly of 'Mannish' origin blended with those of the Sindar (Gray-elves) and others who had never left Middle-earth.It would appear that Bilbo, Frodo and Samwise died when they got ready to... much as King Aragorn did. They would all have known the time had come and simply laid down their lives.

I love to think of them that way. Deciding they had done enough, lived long enough and that it was time to go home to Eru.


mecry

[A! Elbereth]

Thank you thank you soooo much for that! Now I am certain.... but you said right when you said mecry

"I dont know why.... it makes me sad.." ~Sam :(... mecry

[Periantari Andruil]

awwww yeah..it is sad... but no on lives forever... :( mecry
it's good that Frodo was with Bilbo, Gandalf, and Sam for a while before dying at least... for death is the fate of Men and Hobbits...

but yes, i do feel sorry that Frodo had to go to Valinor because i feel like it was a last resort type of deal... it was sad that he couldn't go on with life after the War of the Ring...
but Valinor is a good place to be somewhat healed and i guess it's all for the best =)

btw great posts and great topic everyone :thumbs:

~~~~
wow i just checked the last time A! E posted on this thread and it was in November! hehe :elfeek: ...i wasn't a member then and i just found this thread today so sorry about the late response :blush:
=)

[Frodo's Love]

Thanks Andruil, for reviving this thread! :thumbs:
I've been so very emotional about this part since I first read it. mecry That Frodo, after doing so much, couldn't get back to his normal life and had to leave the Shire and his friends for the option to get healed at last...it still can make me weep :(

Sam passing over the Sea after Rosie's death to be with Frodo again made me feel better again. Such good friends mustn't be seperated forever.... I always wondered if Frodo felt very lonely among the elves. And Bilbo? I can't remember if there is a note on when he dies. Does someone know that?

[Samwise2]

Frodo also went to grey heavens to allow sam to have a peaceful life as sam was torn in two with his friendship with frodo and his love for rosie and his family so by frodo going it alow sam to get on with his life knowing that they would meet again one day , plus remember in grey heaven time goes slowly

[Periantari Andruil]

i don't think the appendcies mentions whether or not any of the hobbits and died once they went to the Grey Havens...i find it sad that Sam went to Valinor as well :( Elanor and her siblings must miss daddy...

[Frodo's Love]

:( Of course they must be sad for them to see her daddy leaving... but it also feels right to me that Sam and Frodo will see each other again finally. They both deserve it...
Frodo's departure, the ending of the Third Age and all the changes after destroying the evil - it all contains such a lot of melancholy and sacrifice...