Wormtongue

[Varda]

I didn´t find a thread for the great wormtongue ...
and he is my favourity character I must say.
so evil and ... verymad verymad
do you like wormtongue, too?
i´m really sad that he had to die ..
;)
but did you know HOW wormtongue got to the part of the king´s counseller?
i discussed the topic myself very long and read some lines of the book again.
but maybe i´ve overseen something, how knows

greetings
varda

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ah well i like brad dourif very much. he looks to be an excellent wormtogue. my favortie character he is not, but i do like him a bit better than legolas ;)

yeah i pretty muchly thought that it would have been neat if frodo's offer to let him stay would have been taken. but then you know he would still have been evil. ;)

[Arwen, Elven Princes]

Yeah, I really did pity him, I guess there was a dark side and a light side to him. If I had really been in middle-earth and knew him I probably could have found the light side, after all he wasn't all evil, he killed Saruman . And it was sad that he had to die, poor chap... anyway, I can't answer your question, I just had say that.

[Ithielnor]

Well, I'll see if this helps at all.
I believe he got the position before he became evil (corupted by Sarumon). Gandalf said
"You are held wise, my friend Wormtongue, and are doubtless a great support to your master..."
so Wormtongue was a wise councellor, though not wise enough to resitst the lure Sarumon held out to him, i.e. Eowyn.
Also,
"A witless worm you have BECOME..."
this seems to show that he HAD been wise.
Another,
"Nay, Eomer, you do not fully understand the mind of master Wormtongue, he is bold and cunning."
And,
"See, Theoden, here is a snake! With safty you cannot take it with you, nor can you leave it behind. To slay it would be just. But it was not always as it now is. Once it was a man, and did you service in its fashion."
This last one seems to show Theoden recognised that Wormtongue had been a wise councellor at one time,
Nonetheless I miss now both my councellors, the old and the new."

I hope this helps.

p.s. the above quotes were all, except the last, taken from The Two Towers, part I, chap. VI, The King of the Golden Hall. The last is from the next chapter chap. VII, Helm's Deep.
p.p.s. I don't give page references because these change with different editions.

[Sindarin]

I enjoy the way Brad Dourif is bringing the sinister character of Wormtongue to life. Quite authentic indeed. :evil: His screen presence in TTT, from what I've seen so far, is so evil that it's cool. :evilcool: I can't wait to see his onscreen performance, which should be a good and interesting one. :thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yes. i would have liked to see wormtongue given a chance to reform... maybe he would have and maybe he wouldnt have, but i would have liked to see tolkien's take on that :)

[Yar]

I really liked who Brad Dourfit played his roll in Babylon 5 (In one of my faivorite episodes) and I really looked towards when I see him in Wormetongue roll. And I really like that. When I read the book then Gri`ma Wormetongue seems to be somewho more darker, i don't know but i'm really glad with his roll, one fo the best (best: gollum)

[Grima Wormtongue]

my fav character in the books and i guess movies although the movies are all ****ed up, i still ike them though, i jus hope they keep grimas death he same but i heard they arent

[Periannath]

the only it says in my 'the complete Tolkien guide' by J. E. A. Tyler that he was easily corrupted by saruman a few years before the war of the ring... And i agree with the one who said that he's so evil it's cool. Though my favorite villain is Gollum.

[TheRingBearer]

Most of the 'bad guys' were good when you come to think of it. Saruman was once good but fell to the power of the ring, wormtongue most likely wasn't evil from the start, Boromir was just seduced by the ring, the nazgul were once men and Gollum was once Smeagol. In fact the only really evil person is Sauron himself.

[SindarinGirl]

But technically, going back to the beginning in the Silmarillion, Sauron fell under Melkor's influence, and became evil. Or did he become just more evil? So would that make him more like Saruman or Smeagol?

Because wasn't Smeagol quite the jerk to start with? I got the impression that it was less the power of the Ring that made him kill to get his hands on it and more that he was already a nasty little pece of work who killed his friend just to get what he wanted.
It seems that in the movie they're making him seem more pitiable, so they may change the impression that he was a bad seed from the start.

Now if Wormtogue was swayed by Saruman a few years before, how long has Saruman been under the influence of Sauron? And why did it take so long for Gandalf to recognize this about the "head of his order"? Don't they have meetings or lunches or something? lol

Totally MHO

[TheRingBearer]

Yeah i suppose you're right. I haven't read the silmarillion you see.

[Rumil]

I think wormtongue is a marvellous character and Brad Dourif's portrayal was masterful. Vis a vis the evil/good discussion, Elrond says at the council:

"nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so."

[SindarinGirl]

Hey I got one right! lol

I was watching part of Dune (the batteries in the remote died and I was trapped) the other night and Brad Dourif was the evil councillor to the evil Duke - What is it with this guy? ;) And some of the mannerisms were the same!
In Dune he constantly had his fingers up near his mouth like he was tugging on his lip a little, and he was doing it again while talking to Saruman about Theoden going to Helm's Deep, just with a hanky in his hand.

Things that make you go Hmmmm.

[Windwater Elf]

Excellent acting performance by Brad Dourif brought out Wormtongue's cunning and treachery to the fore on screen. Dourif's acting also showed how much Wormtongue lusted for Eowyn.

[A! Elbereth]

Yes, I find that Brad was one of the characters that had superb acting. He did an extremely good job, and I'm beginning to think he had erm... the actor who played Eomer did the best. At least, they were the truest to the books, I think.

[Gwaihir]

Well I can't say anything about his acting until I watch it, but he looks very good as Wormtongue. He matches my impression of him in the books. I can't wait to watch it!!!