Movie Arwen

[Tar-Palantir]

Hey everybody! :grin:

I just wanted to know what you think about the movies Arwen.
Personally I think that PJ changed Arwen waaaaaay to much, she wasn't a fighter in the books, and with all the bad and cheesy lines, COME ON!!!mecry

[Aerandir]

But she's hot...

~Aera

[Tar-Ancalimë]

everyone hates her LOL

well not everyone, but mostly either you think shes pretty therefore good or you think that has nothing to do with and and both liv and her role sucked ;)

[Ithielnor]

weelll...she would have been alright if they had restrictded her to Arwen's role in the book, but I think more has been said on this elsewhere

[Finrod Felagund]

It wasn't me this time Catz

on to the Arwen/Liv bashing

Her role is a sell out... poofy lipped wench.
She is eye candy though

I wonder if she even read The Book
I'll say this one more time...
Glorfindel got Robbed

[Lady Ashley]

OOH. just let me tell you what I think about her...

I think she's got FAT LIPS. She can't ACT. She STOLE Master Glor's horse. She WAS NOT a WARRIOR. She sat home and sewed Aragorn a flag! Stick to it, Mr. Jackson! She's just eye candy for the boys! Ok, fine, let her rescue Frodo (though he could do FINE on his own), but LEAVE HER AT HOME! She (and those other elves too) do NOT need to be trampin' around Middle-Earth. Master Tolkien had her stay home to sew Aragorn his pretty flag and that had a purpose. (I shan't disclose that in case people that have not read it read this.)

Well, that's my Arwen-bashing for today...heh heh my other Arwen-bashings are somewhere...

[Sindarin]

Personally, Arwen's role in FOTR was overplayed somewhat. As will probably be the case in TTT, although I think they'll get her character right in ROTK.

Although many of us were not pleased with Liv's performance, nor were we equally pleased with the way Arwen's overall role was presented in the film, it's something we're simply going to have to accept. Yet that's just my opinion.

[Big Ranger]

(quietly)
Big Ranger likes Arwen...

[Orkybash]

Originally posted by Lady Ashley Thalionwen
OOH. just let me tell you what I think about her...

I think she's got FAT LIPS. She can't ACT. She STOLE Master Glor's horse. She WAS NOT a WARRIOR. She sat home and sewed Aragorn a flag! Stick to it, Mr. Jackson! She's just eye candy for the boys! Ok, fine, let her rescue Frodo (though he could do FINE on his own), but LEAVE HER AT HOME! She (and those other elves too) do NOT need to be trampin' around Middle-Earth. Master Tolkien had her stay home to sew Aragorn his pretty flag and that had a purpose. (I shan't disclose that in case people that have not read it read this.)

Well, that's my Arwen-bashing for today...heh heh my other Arwen-bashings are somewhere...

Oh! It must be lucky to be you! I mean, you obviously have some incredible ability to tell exactly what's going on in movies before they're relesed! Can you do that with other stuff too? Maybe I should start taking stock tips from you!

[Lady Ashley]

*glares* Haha, very funny. I KNEW she would be back anyway. They never put someone in there just to leave them out later on...movies at least.

I guess, hypothosize and assume. *shrug* I put two and two together,..

[Nessa]

Alright, everyone's friendly here. ;)

Personally, I think people are way to hard on Liv Tyler. As far as acting goes, she did a fine job. I recognized a lot of depth, almost age, in her voice (even if it was a bit breathy). You have to keep in mind that she had very little to work with. Did she read the books? Probably not. Why would she? To see Arwen's two lines? (Elijah never really finished them, either.) Some people just aren't readers, and that has to be understood.

As far as Arwen's charactor goes, it doesn't entirely bother me. I've said a thousand times before, and I'm about to say it again: I would have loved to see Frodo get his moment at the Ford. As much as I like Glorfindel, I understand why the decision was made to use Arwen, to give her better introduction and all. The only part of the chase scene I hated was her crying and spewing all that "Come back to the light" stuff. But that was the descision of the writers and director and not of Tyler.

I don't think there's any real evidence she'll have the role of a warrior in TTT. (And if there is, it is better off discussed in the TTT forum. :thumbs: )

[Orkybash]

Originally posted by Lady Ashley Thalionwen
*glares* Haha, very funny. I KNEW she would be back anyway. They never put someone in there just to leave them out later on...movies at least.

I guess, hypothosize and assume. *shrug* I put two and two together,..

Heh, sorry bout that. We *will* see Arwen in TTT, but all I've heard about is she'll be stuck in Rivendell. In fact, I read an interview with PJ where he said they scrapped all the footage of her at Helm's Deep. But, my point was, we really can't tell what's going to happen until we see the movie, or someone who has decides to spoil it. And if that someone does, I'll be shutting my ears anyway until I can see for myself!

But again, sorry I ended up being so sarcastic... one of the few Arwen fans out there can only take so much Arwen bashing! :)

[Tar-Palantir]

Well, as for Arwen in TTT, she is in the trailer.

And i HATE how Glorfindel's part was stolen, for crying out loud he destroyed a Balrog! And Frodo's charachter would be more shown had he faced the Nazgul himself. Well that may be only IMO.

[Orkybash]

Yeah, it does seem that Arwen gets together with Aragorn, but we'll see how they handle it.

And I didn't think it was definite that the LotR Glorfindel was the same as the Silmarillion Glorfindel? Regardless, Frodo should have stood on his own at the ford - no arguments there.

I guess the difference is I don't care who gets him there.

[Undomiel]

Originally posted by Nessa
Alright, everyone's friendly here. ;)

Personally, I think people are way to hard on Liv Tyler. As far as acting goes, she did a fine job. I recognized a lot of depth, almost age, in her voice (even if it was a bit breathy). You have to keep in mind that she had very little to work with. Did she read the books? Probably not. Why would she? To see Arwen's two lines? (Elijah never really finished them, either.) Some people just aren't readers, and that has to be understood.


I don't think there's any real evidence she'll have the role of a warrior in TTT. (And if there is, it is better off discussed in the TTT forum. :thumbs: )

I completely agree. I have to say movie Arwen has grown on me. I still think some of her lines are a bit cheesy, but Liv Tyler didnt write them so it's hardly her fault. And as to her having fat lips, i think she's pretty-really ethereal, a perfect elf-i wish i was half as pretty as her :( I think people are too hard on her. In some ways i think her role has been slightly too much, but i love her scenes with Aragorn, they're great and i'm really glad they were included.

[Miruvor]

I believe Liv acted the role quite well. Though it's kind of weird that she must be about 20 years younger than Viggo, yet playing a elf much older than he in age and experience and wisdom.
I think she did as well as anyone else could have done.

Besides, according to PJ in the Time article, TTT deviates more from the book that the other two movies, so maybe Arwen's part in FOTR will become obscured by the other complaints we will have after we all see TTT. :blush: :angry: :blush: :angry: :blush:

[Lady Ashley]

Oh, indeed, Miruvor! Gosh, I know I shall die right there in the movie theater. I'll first be in shiock at whatever incredible cineamatography in sure to plant itself in TT and then I'll have a heart when Arwen and all unneeded elves pop up on the screnen. (and then completly keel over at them *beep* sewers).

[Miruvor]

Oh man, poor Faramir and his personality transplant! I'm also afraid they may just skip Pippin looking in the palantir, and that they will never call Gandalf 'Mithrandir'. Does anyone 'in the know', know whether that is out? And I'd much rather see the fallen head of the king at the crossroads than the sewers.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

um, they better not skip Pippen looking into the Palantir! I'll kill them! Not that i won't already, for Faramir's character changes ;)

Mithrandir is less important, IMO... i mean, saying things like "Balrog of Morgoth" and "I would have her take the ship to Valinor" really improved the SEEDVD, but it didn't make the theatrical cut bad :grin:

[Miruvor]

I still am not over their leaving out the word "Weathertop". That annoyed me more than Arwen.

[Tar-Palantir]

well as for TTT we should discuss that in TTT forum? Arwen here.

[Nessa]

Yes Tar, thanks!!!! :)

Remember guys, there very well may be some people here who don't want to know spoilers about TTT, so its best to keep the fotr strictly fotr. ;)

Back to Arwen: I'm glad a few of you agree with me that Liv did a decent job, I thought I was alone on the subject. Her elvish (although I am definately no expert, or even novice) impresses me as well. She seems to enjoy the language quite a bit.

[Miruvor]

We can't really know if it is going to be spoiled until we see it. ;)

[Laurelin]

She really isn't so bad guys! SO many people are like "she has down syndrome." No that's not funny. They put her in there so that people who HAVE NOT read the books won't get confused with a completely new character. There are a lot of characters for the unlearned movie Tolkien-fan, and though it's easy for US to keep up with, imagine going to a movie and meeting 30 different characters (give or take). It's already hard enough to tell Merry and Pippin apart at times, not for me of course ( :, who could miss Pippin's beautiful accent! Well back to the topic. Arwen taking the part of Glorfindel just makes it a whole lot simpler and I really don't mind because Liv is a good actress for that part. She was very aloof.. if that's the word, like elves should be. But she is still kind. They could have skipped the whole tear part but it's okay. It was still good

[Miruvor]

Laurelin, have you been reading my mind? That's exactly how I think (including the tear part). I think Liv is a sweet girl and doesn't deserve all this blasting. :thumbs:

[Lady Melody]

Give the poor dame a break already...

[Undomiel]

yay-i'm glad people dont all hate her-i was really feeling sorry for Liv. I definitely think she deserves a break.

[Lady Ashley]

Yes, I know someone who felt that there were too many people jumping into the middle of the thing. (She also thought the Company couldn't make up their minds on which way they wanted to go...) Anyway...

I suppose I ought to give Liv a break, it could have been much worse. *pause* could it? hmmm....

Course, I was one who had not finished the whole trilogy at the time of viewing the film and thought the romance was just for the film instead of actual stuff. That's prolly why I hate movie Arwen so much! Heehee I remember thinking that Aragorn should have gotten together with Eowyn. Imagine my surprise! my thoughts then: "Aragorn should marry EOWYN! She's HUMAN at least!" or better yet, I think I thought, "He doesn't fall in love with Arwen!" HA! as I said, I had not finished the books.

(I sound like I'm defending myself...! *runs away before pro-Arwen fans come after her with pitchforks*)

[Bonos-Girl]

well....i had finished readig it (well..at least all the appendices!) when i saw the film....and i still thought that it was kinda evil to glorfindel in the film...and also that aragorn should've chosen eowyn.....i do see your point though...

[Little Devil]

I like everybody in the film, but I do agree with BG kinda mean for them to leave out Glorfindel.

[Undomiel]

yeah-i mean i think the Arwen thing is not too bad, and i thought it was a bit unfair to diss Liv so much, but i do miss Glorfindel alot :( I wish he could have been in it too

[Arwen Evenstar]

I don't think it's fair everyone blames it on Arwen Glorfindel was cut, it was PJ's decision, not Arwen's.

[Stormcrow]

Yeah, people cannot blame Arwen for that. I am personally glad Arwen had the amount of screentime she did, she was wonderful! :) She brought a very strong love to the movie through her and Aragorns relationship. It is a very important part of the movie inn my opinion, but some parts were a tad unnessesary. Such as Arwen dying and all that connection with the evenstar fading. But I loved her part in the movies. She was fantastic!

[Arwen Evenstar]

I am actually secretly glum that the part when Aragorn remembered when they first met or something (it was in the TTT trailer when they were laughing and smiling, they looked a bit younger). And there was a part when Arwen was standing on a bridge, and Elrond was walking away saying, "You have given away your life's grace, I cannot protect you." Something like that. I really want to see all the cut out parts, wish PJ could put it into a video/DVD, bet he could make lots of money from that.

[Stormcrow]

Yeah, he sure would! :) I would love to see all of that as well. Perhaps we will see it in 'Ringers: The Lord of the Fans'? I hope so.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Ringers: Lord of the Fans???????? That's good.

[Stormcrow]

It is, actually. You do know what it is, right? It is a doco due to be released soon all about LOTR. I suggest you check the 'Other Movies' thread for more details on it. :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

Does it include information and stuff?

[Stormcrow]

A lot of things, read the thread on it, I posted a whole article on it there. :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

I've been reading it an it sounds fabulous. I can't wait!

[Daughter of Feanor]

Im on the side of those who say she got too much fighting and chase sceens. Come on people, Arwen is not some sort of warrior princess, she was never meant to be! At least they didnt put her to Helms Deep. And poor Glorfindel probably still has to walk... :( :)

[Stormcrow]

Arwen had her chase/fighting scene in FOTR, one time. I wouldn't say that it is too much at all. I am glad they didn't put her to Helm's Deep, but she would be capable of fighting there.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I don't mind her taking over Glorfindel, because that didn't really make her a warrior princess, because she didn't do any real fighting. In my opinion, she would be fine at Helm's Deep if it was just to deliver Anduril (I actually would like that scene), but I think fighting at Helm's Deep is a bit too much.

[angelica83]

Love movie Arwen and book Arwen!:grin: Those who "hate" her can suffer from anger for all I care.:p

[Stormcrow]

No-one 'hates' her, angelica83. :) Some people just think it would have been better off with no Arwen at Helm's Deep, which there wasn't. I am one of those people in a way. She wouldn't have brought much to the scene, except Anduril, which, I personally think turned out better being delivered by Elrond. If Arwen was there fighting, she would have only 'been there fighting', what is the point of her doing that? Arwen's character is better off without being at Helm's Deep. :)

[The Renaissance Girl]

I love both Arwens.
And I think the chase scene in FotR shows that, even though she is NOT a 'warrior princess', she is giving up her safety to help her sweetheart and the quest of the Ring. She wants to help, she had an oppertunity to help and she took it. It was something out of her ordinary personality to do, but she did because she loves Aragorn.
I'd like to see the scenes of Arwen at Helms Deep, but I'm glad they cut it. It would have been WAY to much of the warrior princess thing and too much changing in Arwen's character. If they put here there, then there would have been conflict between her and Eowyn, which would require more scenes and and script to build a relation. In turn, that would have effected many other things. But I won't go down that road right now.
I like Arwen and I like Liv Tyler as Arwen.

[Stormcrow]

You put that brilliantly. I must agree with everything you just said. Arwen is the type of character who would definitely give up her own saftey for the greater good or for something she loves.

[angelica83]

I know you don't hate her stormcrow but you'll be suprised with the pathological hate that you will encounter with other websites for Arwen and Liv Tyler.

[Stormcrow]

How dare they! *takes deep breath*

How could anyone hate Arwen? It is ridiculous! They call themselves fans? I don't hate any of the characters in the books or movies who are alligned with good. Arwen was great in the movies! I hate haters! :p

[angelica83]

I know stormcrow.:( Oh well, it's their loss if they want to dwell on negative feelings. I'm just glad you like her stormcrow. *hugs*

[Arwen Evenstar]

It's stupid to hate Arwen. On fanfiction.net, when I read about Glorfindel, viewers put something like 'YAY! Glorfindel!! DETAH TO ARWEN', or if it's a terrifiying Aragorn/Eowyn fic with Arwen dying in it, Eowyn fans say 'YES! She's dead! A/E forever! If she didn't die, I would have thrown her off a cliff anyway!'. TERRIBLE.

[Stormcrow]

That's awful! How dare they! I am so mad now, how could anyone be like that, it is utterly disrespectful. She is brilliant. Eowyn and Arwen are both marvelous characters. People shouldn't be like that.

[crazymonkey 4 frodo]

Could we possibly explain to me why people don't like the movie version of Arwen?? I don't get it...Peter mostly follows the story as it is written...what's the difference??? Now I'm confused. :-/

[The Renaissance Girl]

I agree with Stormcrow, how can they call themselves fans when they hate one of the characters? This may be strange, but it upsets me quite a bit when people start ranting about how much they hate Arwen, how useless she was, how ugly they think she is and her role sucks.
Crazymonkey, I think they're just showing favoritism. Like Denethor: loving one and hating the other. I love 'em all! Let's be positive, people!

[Arwen Evenstar]

O-K. I can't love everyone (especially not Denethor), but I'll try! BTW, what do you mean they're showing favouritism, to who???

[Eowyn]

You can be a fan and hate one of the characters. You do not have to like every character in a film or book to be called a fan. I can name a number of things I dislike about LotR or other things I considered myself a fan of.

And I disliked the changes with Arwen but that was partly because I had heard she would be at Helm's Deep and I hated that idea. Even when i read the books I wasn't that fussed about Arwen, so I resented her character having a larger part and shortening others.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I think she and Eowyn had an extended part.

[angelica83]

It's a pity you dislike Arwen, Eowyn. And it's true, Eowyn had a cameo appearance in the two towers book and yet she had a substantial role in the two towers movie. I think it's terribly unfair to rag on Arwen all the time unless you're one of those people who would have wanted Aragorn with Eowyn anyway.

[angelica83]

Forgive me if I misunderstood you Eowyn, I gather you're ok with movie-Arwen now?:grin:

[Stormcrow]

I agree with Stormcrow, how can they call themselves fans when they hate one of the characters? This may be strange, but it upsets me quite a bit when people start ranting about how much they hate Arwen, how useless she was, how ugly they think she is and her role sucks.
Crazymonkey, I think they're just showing favoritism. Like Denethor: loving one and hating the other. I love 'em all! Let's be positive, people!

Well said, Renaissance Girl! :thumbs:

I could not put it better myself.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Most people who like Eowyn hate Arwen. For one, they might want Aragorn and Eowyn together, and blame Arwen for 'stealing' him, or they were angry that Arwen got a small action part in the movies, which maybe they thought Arwen was trying to steal Eowyn's glory.

[Stormcrow]

I find that really quite ridiculous. They are just a bunch of haters, I am not gonna be concerned over such people.

[Eowyn]

*holds hand up* I didn't like Arwen in the films!

Not because she 'stole' Aragorn, because Eowyn and Faramir belong together, I never thought Eowyn and Aragorn would work.

I wasn't angry at the flight to the fords change as I've explained in that thread it was necessary.

And there's no way Arwen cold ever steal Eowyn's glory.

I just didn't like the fact they built up a love story as the main one when they had two perfectly good ones mentioned loads in the books that they could have used (Eowyn and Faramir, Sam and Rosie) So please don't refer to us as a 'bunch of haters' we have our reasons. Mine is that I wanted more of the Eowyn and Faramir love story and the majority of it was cut to make room for the Arwen and Aragorn love story :huh: my friends saw the theatrical versions and never knew that Eowyn and Faramir fell in love and it drove me nuts that I had to explain my favourite bits of the books.

But I have ranted about this before so I shall stop I just wanted to point out that the people who disliked Arwen have valid reasons. Thanks :p

[Stormcrow]

So please don't refer to us as a 'bunch of haters' we have our reasons.

I wasn't referring to you as a hater, I wasn't referring to anyone who has a reasonable opinion backed by a reason such as yours as haters either. I was referring to people who HATE Arwen and dis her to extreme levels over foolish reasons, please don't think I was referring to you when I said that, I wasn't. :) You have a reasonable explanation as to why you don't like her in the films, that is understandable. :)

[Eowyn]

Don't worry I didn't take it personally lol I never do but I haven't heard anyone use any foolish reasons? What reasons have you heard people give that were unreasonable?

[Stormcrow]

"I hate Arwen because she stole all of Eowyns screentime!"
"Arwen is a b****, she stole Aragorn from Eowyn."
"Arwen ruined the movie by taking Glorfindels place."

Stuff like that, including verbal abuse...not very pleasant.

[Eowyn]

Not on this site I hope. We try to stop that sort of thing. But I suppose there's always a few that spoil things :huh: anyway back to Arwen ;) I like her dresses :p

[Stormcrow]

Yes, she does dress beautifully! She always looks gorgeous.

[The Renaissance Girl]

Thank you for being so gracious in what you said, Eowyn!

Arwen Evenstar, what I meant was that they favor Eowyn and hate Arwen. Some people sit there and say "Yay! Eowyn rocks!" and then turn around and say "Arwen sucks!" (which some people don't like). And they both had parts added and taken out. I think Eowyn had ALMOST as much altering as Arwen.

I think people sort of overreact and take it all too seriously.

[angelica83]

Eowyn, as to what you said, I just don't understand why Arwen gets the blame. She didn't write the script, PJ and the scriptwriters did. I just feel sorry for those who fixate on disliking a character so much that it detracts from their enjoyment of the films. Do you skip Arwen's parts in the films too? She has some really beautiful scenes and it's a pity you'll miss it.

[angelica83]

Also, in the 3rd film, when E/F have their story, Arwen was hardly in it! What part of Arwen's needed to be cut to make room for E/F? If you ask me, there were far too many battle scenes and not enough character development. Also, did they need the Eowyn's dream scene there? It showed more of A/E, making Eowyn look so in love that her love for Faramir becomes unrealistic. If you ask me, that should have been cut for more E/F if that was what you wanted.

[angelica83]

I was referring to the theatrical release for the excessive battle scenes and to the extended edition release for the Eowyn's dream scene, just to clarify.:grin: *sorry for the triple posting*

[Arwen Evenstar]

I agree with you angelica83! The Eowyn love story is mainly about her love for Aragorn, and not for Faramir. In the theatrical version, the only E/F scene we saw was them together at the coronation of Aragorn, and that was just a smile and a bow.

[angelica83]

Good to see people coming to Arwen's defense!;)

[Arwen Evenstar]

That's cuz I like Arwen!

[Stormcrow]

I think we all adore her! She is a wonderful character and she had many brilliant scenes and in all of them, she fit in beautifully! :grin:

[Arwen Evenstar]

I do think we like her in a kind of way at least.

[Stormcrow]

Yes, for sure! Arwen fit in perfectly in PJ's adaption of LOTR. She brought so much more to the story and I am so glad she was involved that way.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I especially liked her encouraging Aragorn to accept his role.

[Stormcrow]

Yes, the way PJ put that in the movie was amazing. I liked it too! ;)

[Eowyn]

angelica ~ apology accepted for the triple posting but please refrain from doing so in future. Thanks.

I don't skip her scenes in the films. They're growing on me but I remember being very bored the first time I watched them. For some reason the Arwen/ Aragorn story just doesn't interest me. :huh:

[Stormcrow]

It sure does interest me! I think it brings such beauty to the movies, it is amazing! Their story is so elegant and touching, it definitely deserves a place in the trilogy.

[Arwen Evenstar]

It interests me greatly because in the whole of LOTR, their love story is my favourite (though I like E/F and R/S too). As you say Stormcrow, it is amazing, elegant and touching. I love the way it was expressed in the films and books. Some people say it is unworthy of the LOTR saga, but I really think it is because an elf/human story is so rare, and their story has got to be treasured.

[The Renaissance Girl]

Eowyn,
You probably just don't like romance scenes much, do ya? I'm not at all interested in romance stuff, even I get borded with the smoochy scenes. But I think it does fit in. It plays a great part in Aragorn's coming to the throne. Tolkien may have had daydreams of Arwen and Aragorn's love, but just didn't put it in his books.
Just a side note, I think they should of done less of A/E, more of A/A and F/E. The love scenes between Eowyn and Faramir should have been more and stronger than those between Aragorn and Eowyn, so as to show how the love of Faramir overcame the imagined romance with Aragorn.

[Stormcrow]

I agree with you. I don't much like romance much at all to be honest, but the Arwen and Aragorn story is much different from an ordinary love story, and that is why I like it so much. And as you said, Renaissance Girl, it plays a big part with Aragorn and the Return of the King.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I totally agree.

The Renaissance Girl, I don't think Eowyn hates romance, she just loves E/F and isn't bothered about A/A, I think she mentioned that E/F was one of her favourite parts of the book.

I don't like romance, but the A/A story is so inspiring and wonderful. As you said Stormcrow, it is so much different from other ones. This one is about being true, loyal, sacrifice and the deepness of love.

The films are mainly about Eowyn's love for Aragorn, not Faramir, and I think it gave me the impression in the movies that Aragorn was attracted to Eowyn: when he looked back at her in the warg attack and kind of 'flirting' with her. I think they should have had more E/F scenes, but I love the A/A scenes to bits.

[Eowyn]

Me? Not like romance scenes? lol I adore them, if done properly. Arwen Evenstar here is right the E/F bits of the books are my favourite but that's not the only reason I'm not bothered about the scenes. I was watching them thinking 'There are better bits of the story you could be telling' I just felt the whole A/A thing was not so much building up their characters as sticking in a love story in because it would appeal to a wider audience, which frankly is daft.

Arwen I will disagree with you on one thing, the films are not mainly about any characters. The films are about the ring and it's power and eventual destruction.

btw can anyone explain the whole Arwen dying because of the ring, thing? Why did she suddenly become weak and wimpy because she gave up her immortality? That annoyed me. They made her out to be strong and then suddenly she's dying? :huh: I really did not get that.

[Stormcrow]

Neither did I. I never understood that at all. All I can think of it that it must have something to do with the Evenstar, and perhaps it could also be becauseshe had chosen to stay in Middle Earth when the rest of her kin (not including Elrond) had already left Middle Earth. I am not sure, however.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I did think that was a big odd, but I suppose it gave us the impression that Aragorn had to fight if Arwen was to survive, which encouraged him in some way.

[Stormcrow]

Hmm, perhaps. This is all so confusing. I dislike changes like this. Especially when they haven't even been clarified. :-/

[Arwen Evenstar]

Especially if you don't expect it.

[Megara]

I think that E/F romance in the book was waaaay romantic than the movies.. I mean, what kinda person conveys their love in broad daylight?lol
Arwen.. okay.. the breathy talking gets quite irritating, and the whole Arwen's-fate-is-tied-to-the-ring is ridiculous.. but all in all.. I respect the love between Aragorn and Arwen.. Honestly saying, she is sacrificing her immortality for Aragorn, that is true love. Liv IS Arwen.. I can't find another person fit to be her... She has the likenesses of Luthien the Fair, that's something to say... Okay, I admit that Arwen has got nothing to do with the Ford (Like Elrond will let her do that)... lol lol

[angelica83]

I think movie-Arwen is extremely underrated! Her voice was just fine for an elf (Galadriel had that really slow voice)!

[Lady Galadriel]

Okay, I admit that Arwen has got nothing to do with the Ford (Like Elrond will let her do that)... lol lol

Why is there a prevalent feeling that Arwen is subject to Elrond? Is this derived from Elrond's exhortation on the single most important decision of his beloved daughter's life? Why is it that one single theme of Arwen's life is used to characterized the "whole" of her life?

[Megara]

Elrond loves his daughter alot.. and in dark and dangerous times, one would not let his only daughter challenge against the Nazgul.. I am not trying to imply that the incident at the Fords is utterly wrong, just trying to get to the more common sensical side.. I dont really mind Arwen and the Fords that much..

[Lady Galadriel]

Elrond loves his daughter alot.. and in dark and dangerous times, one would not let his only daughter challenge against the Nazgul..

My point is that Arwen is an adult. Where does everyone get this thing about Elrond letting Arwen do this or that? Just like I'm an adult and my mother would not want me to do things that she believes would hurt me but I nevertheless maintain the choice of doing whatever I please. That's my point.

While Arwen love and respects her father, the choice is still hers to make.

[Megara]

Yeah.. but Arwen.. THE Evenstar of her people.. People look up to her.. I look up to her.. Why would she do that?

[Eowyn]

Maybe people would look up to her for standing up for what she believes in. They certainly do not strike me as the type to refuse her happiness when she has the chance for it.

And LG perhaps people think of Arwen as 'subject' to Elrond purely because he is her dad :p

[Lady Galadriel]

Yeah.. but Arwen.. THE Evenstar of her people.. People look up to her.. I look up to her.. Why would she do that?

Because, in the movie, she is taking a chance on a small hobbit who is in danger of becoming a ringwraith or whatever it is.

Also, did you know that Galadriel, who is of the line of three elven kings, fought in the battle at Alqualonde? Isn't she a princess? What I'm trying to say, is that we know so little about Arwen that one is never sure what she could have or could not have done.

Hey, Eowyn! :) Well, erm, so was Luthien subjected to Thingol, but she did otherwise. But perhaps there is this prevalent feeling since movie Elrond was lowering himself to stratagems. That is so unlike Tolkien's Elrond. I feel that perversity very acutely.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Arwen was a princess, so I really don't think they would have let her fight the Nazgul, though she basically just cast a spell. But I still think it was rather cool.

[Eowyn]

awww poor LG :cuddles: ignore the changes just pretend he's the lovely book Elrond.

Arwen Evenstar being a princess doesn't mean she shouldn't fight (remember Eowyn is royalty too ;))

[angelica83]

Umm, Arwen was more than a princess. She was the manager of elrond's household with her mother gone. I really hate it when people demean her.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Oh yes, I agree now, Eowyn, when I remember Eowyn. I just thought that she was valauble, that's why Eowyn was always left behind.

angelica83, Arwen was more than a princess. She was the official Lady of Imladris.

[Eowyn]

Eowyn was technically valuable but if all of your family and loved ones were off to fight you would want to protect them. and hey they knew they'd be out numbered so surely the more people to fight to begin with the better ;) as for movie Arwen well she'd lived there probaly all of her very long life. She loved Aragorn and well I could hardly see her sat waiting when she knew she could help :)

angelica you're right about arwen she would have taken over in her mother's absence. I hadn't thought of that.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Eowyn, do you mean that you thought Arwen should have helped Aragorn as Luthien helped Beren?

[Eowyn]

Yes. If she loved him that much. Enough to give up her immortality why did she just let him wander off to fight. It makes even less sense in the movie because they make out she can fight and will go searching for them to make sure they're safe and then leaves?!

[Arwen Evenstar]

At that time in movies, Eowyn, Aragorn has basically 'ditched' her because he didn't want her to die. She mjust have had mixed feelings, because she didn't know if he wanted her or not.

[Lady Galadriel]

Yes. If she loved him that much. Enough to give up her immortality why did she just let him wander off to fight. It makes even less sense in the movie because they make out she can fight and will go searching for them to make sure they're safe and then leaves?!

**pokes Eowyn** I think in Beren and Luthien's case it was different. That was a "personal" quest. It did not involve armies and such and Beren was alone. In addition, Luthien had enchanting powers or something of that sort.

It seemed more appropriate for Arwen to steer clear of the quest for the ring because not even the other elven realms were part of it. In that age, elves were estranged from men.

Now, in the Flight to the Ford, that's a different case since it is near Imladris and the hobbits and Aragorn were heading towards Imladris.