Haldir contraversie totally confirmed **Spoilers**

[Luthien]

I'm sure everyone has read it by now, but just in case someone missed it, Craig Parker himself has confirmed that Haldir doesn't make it through TTT mecry I'll give you the quote here:

he stepped on stage with a dramatic opening gambit: "Hello. I'm Craig Parker. I play Haldir and I..." (makes exaggerated cutting motion to throat with hand) "...in the next movie".

He had small feet - 'Are they like a hobbit's?' someone asked. Off came his shoes and socks while he checked. Discussing his death scene (which he recreated in a mock comedic fashion) he was philosophical: "It's one of those things that you don't want to happen. But for an actor death scenes are good".

If you go to TOR.N there's a link there under the second day of RingCon

[Lady Ashley]

Good riddance. He would live if they didn't send the elves to Helm's Deep!!!

[Luthien]

Although it is sad, I think it will make for a very dramatic scene. IF elves had been at Helms Deep in the book originally it would have been pretty cool I think. hehe *I'm probably going to get loads of hate mail by saying that*

[Bess the Bard]

I checked out the report on TORn. Craig Parker is a lot cuter without the blond tresses. I think I'm going to be sorry to see Haldir croak after all.... :naughty:

That said, although I think the elves at Helms Deep are POINTLESS, I will probably get caught up in the moment by the master storyteller, PJ, and cry when Haldir dies his (no doubt) heroic death.

[Hans_Schuder]

If by pointless you mean cinematically more dramatic, I agree. First things first! Make a great film. ;)

Luthien, you're definitely not the only one that thinks so. I wonder how he will die though? Chop! Chop!

[Bonos-Girl]

awww.mecry...i don't want haldir to die.....its so sad...mecry

[Adunauriel]

You know I'm not a big fan of Haldir. But to see him Die at Helms Deep, will just be sad......:(

[Tar-Ancalimë]

i think the elves shoulda stayed out of helms deep, and no amount of seeing haldir stop plaguing the movie will reconcile me to this scene....

[Adunauriel]

That's how I felt, when I saw the preview... I didin't like the fact that I was seeing Elves at Helms Deep... They just shouldn't be there....:(

[Darth Saruman]

i've always said if you change one thing, you might as well change a bunch of things to make the movie better....so its almost to the point where you have to look at the movies seperately from the books.

although for me, the movies do help when reading the books.

[Adunauriel]

True sometimes movies do help when reading books. I'm just not sure wether this will be a help, or a hinderence. If I hadn't read any of the books, and I was seeing the movie without the book knowledge. Then it would make no difference, but if I were reading the books after seeing the movie. Or in the middle of reading them. It might create confusion in my mind.... I hope this made sence to everyone... ;)

[Singe]

Well, think of the big stink everyone made with Arwen, and most people were okay with that. Some weren't, don't kill me! But anywhoozles, there's reasons for these changes. No, I don't see why, but I'm sure we'll see why once we see the film. There's got to be a legitamate reason for PJ doing this, or he wouldn't have done it! People seem to lose sight of the fact that the people that made these movies are fans too! They're not evil big business executives that you see in disney movies!

[Little Devil]

Don't like Haldir that much, but I don't want any elf to die. :(

[Adunauriel]

True, I don't want to see him Die either... Especially at a place where the only Elf there, was Legolas.... It just doesn't seem right... I hope the movie is good inspite of this crazyness, and I think it will be.....;)

[Pastor of Muppets]

...if you really think about it, Haldir 'biting the big one' at HD, can serve another purpose (other than being a very dramatic scene).

First off, just to make it clear, it isn't going to be just Haldir - there will be a contingent of Elves from Lothlorien at HD, sent because Arwen fears for Aragorns life.

Second, after the Orcs break through the wall at HD, the Lothlorien Elves than sacrifice themselves, so that the people of Rohan can escape into the Glittering Caves. Very dramatic, and also, symbolic of Tolkiens theme: the Elves are giving way to the race of Men - leaving the shores of Middle-Earth forever. So, the Elves being at HD does, in fact, serve a purpose, in conveying the themes of Tolkien. Good stuff.

[Bess the Bard]

Pastor of Muppets, welcome to WOTR. I wonder if you are the same (could there be another name like yours? LOL) person whose posts I have enjoyed at TORC?

I suppose I can appreciate the use of Elves at Helms Deep as a plot device to illustrate the theme of Elves leaving ME. But the original lines between Legolas and Gimli about the Elves and Dwarves being attacked and unable to aide the Men would have made it clear that the Elves were not abandoning humans. Then you would have the dramatic tension of the Rohirrim knowing they really are alone against the overwhelming forces of Saruman. Makes the victory even greater.

Also, if you send the Elves to Helms Deep, how are you going to explain them not being at Minas Tirith or the Battle at the Black Gate. If they are at those battles, then their great significance in being at Helms Deep is somewhat diminished, I think.

These are just my thoughts. Looking forward to more thoughtful posts from you, Pastor.

[Adunauriel]

Originally posted by Bess the Bard
I suppose I can appreciate the use of Elves at Helms Deep as a plot device to illustrate the theme of Elves leaving ME. But the original lines between Legolas and Gimli about the Elves and Dwarves being attacked and unable to aide the Men would have made it clear that the Elves were not abandoning humans. Then you would have the dramatic tension of the Rohirrim knowing they really are alone against the overwhelming forces of Saruman. Makes the victory even greater.

Also, if you send the Elves to Helms Deep, how are you going to explain them not being at Minas Tirith or the Battle at the Black Gate. If they are at those battles, then their great significance in being at Helms Deep is somewhat diminished, I think.

These are just my thoughts. Looking forward to more thoughtful posts from you, Pastor. These are my thoughts as well. To me it just doesn't seem right, but I'm sure I'll like the movie inspite of this episode.....;)

[Faramir]

Look at this picture of supposed Battle before the Black Gates: http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots/pelennor_fields.jpg

I see men of Rohan and Gondor there but no elves. Doesn't proove there are no elves there, but sheds some light.

[Pastor of Muppets]

As a matter of fact, I am the same member, from TORc. Glad you enjoy my posting.

As for this discussion - I think that, when Return of the King is done, the Elven culture, will have very little to do with the film.

Fellowship of the Ring dealt quite a bit, with the Elven culture. Rivendell, and Lothlorien, and, to some extent, the Prolouge (Last Alliance, specifically).

Look at it this way - Haldir and Co. die at HD, correct? They sacrifice themself, so that the people of Rohan may survive. Quite noble of them, if I may say so. But, aside from being very emotional, it does, also, serve the aforementioned purpose. I think that, when RotK comes around, there will be no Elves to help them. They will be fighting their own wars, and it will really seem, than, that the Elves are ready to depart ME. So, it would go from Elves having a prominent role (FotR) to Elves sacrificing themselves, and leaving their own homes (TTT: Rivendell) to, the Elves departing Middle-Earth (RotK). It works for me, if I must say.
Explaining the lack of Elves in MT is simple - they are fighting their own battles, and none can be spared. Simple.