Gollum

[Singe]

Here's hoping I'm not the ostricized newbie.

I spelled that wrong. Crud. Anywhoozles...

Well, I see a lot of these threads devoted to elves and hobbits, but how bout Ents, hoom? Methinks they're pretty neglected, and culture wise they're my favorite, in some aspects at least. What's not to like about benevolent anthropomorphic trees that can rip you a new one?

Then of course there's Gollum, who at times can be either the most loved or hated. Now I don't want to hear about what an ugly little grub he is! I know it's a lot to ask, but let's <i>try</i> to use our intellect. (I'm probably out of luck in the 'gush about how hot these guys are' section of the forum). I think he's the most interesting character, most tragic, so for some reason for me he's the most likeable. I love Frodo, but hey, poor Sméagol!

Well... that's aboot alls I got to say, except I cannot WAIT to see these in TTT!! Even if the movie isn't great, I got to see Gollum and Treebeard. Wee!

[Adunauriel]

I loved the Ents, there great... I thought they were so cool, although much like Pippin & Merry I was a bit afraid of them at first.... Now Gollum on the other hand, don't like him.. Can't really think of anythig good to say about him....;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

hello, welcome to wotr, Singe...

theres a member floating around here called Quickbeam who absolutely adores ents... theres a few others who like em, but he is obessesed.

mmm gollum.... i hate to intrude in your gollum love thread and bash him, so if you really want my opinion (and have the time :p) go here (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1719) and here (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1611)....

:grin:

well theres a few posters floating around on the site that respect/ admire gollum....who knows, maybe they'll show up :)

anyway.... hope i dont make you feel too ostracized... again, welcome :wave:

[Singe]

Ha! I was actually dreading your post, mme. Tar, but you were very nice and civil about it considering your... er... strong opinion concerning slinker/stinker.

As for Quickbeam... phew! I know this one well too. See? I don't dive into these places unknowingly! Quickbeam... he's hasty.

Mah well... lurve Ents anyway. It's fun to be all loserly. Power to the trees!/slinker!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ha ha roflmao i saw this your post and nearly died of laughter, um, am i really that bad? lol

hmm... i think ttt the movie will be really good :grin:... interesting thing, tho, when i saw the trailer on my comp, i thought gollum looked terrible, but, when i saw it on the big screen (a shortened version, alas, but they still showed gollum) i thought he looked pretty cool :cool:

anyway...ill just finish laughing and crawl into a corner now :grin:

lol

[Singe]

hoom... the things some people find funny, I spose?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oooh kay, sorry if i offended you.

[Lady Ashley]

I love the Ents! Hoom, for anyone who doesn't. They're the most ancient of being, older than the Elves. And myself, I'm a "tree-hugger". I'd love to meet one and bring him back so he could save all the trees aorund my town. (Gee, wouldn't that be a most wonderful thing to see? You're driving around town and see this big..tree? WALKING? and who is that sitting in it? (Or on it?) GASP! 'Tis Ashley! She's on a tree that's WALKING! Wow!)

Power to the Ents!! OH! I read in an article at TORN that they're---SPOILER ALERT! if you don't wanna know, don't read further, PLEASE!

Please scroll if you dare.

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They're going to include Treebeard's list in the film!!! As far as this ariticle is concerned at least! They're going to have Trebeard and hobbits talking about the list! YAY! YIPPEEEEE!! (tho I can clearly hear people not book-orientated going, "And they have this weird list of people and things because...?")

But YAY! But I'm getting hasty! Don't count your chickens before they hatch...

[Singe]

Tar- *laughs* No, you didn't offend me at all! I understood your jist, I was just a little confused as to what you found funny. That I already knew about your distaste for Gollum? I just saw one thread where you got rather worked up about it. But that's okay. Praps she'll change her mind with the movie coming out, praps, eh? *loves Andy Serkis*

Ashley- yes, that would RULE! Of course you can't tell anyone what you really think about trees, because then they'll get into practicality and all that what? Screw practicality! TREEEEES

Anywhoozles, yes, I'd give a limb to see an ent (or a dozen.. or a hundred) in these days. Imagine the proceedings! As they are sentient beings, they'd need citizenship and all that, probably have to pay taxes (or be Amish and not) and they would initially consider kicking everyone's butt, but then realize it would be more practical to SUE!!! Ent lawsuits- a new drama on NBC. Look at me amuse myself. And the Ents did sue to protect the trees! They bought all the land, started a big business letting people come see them, invest on Wall Street.... well, that's about all they COULD do at this point. Property rights and all that... I've taken AP Economics, can you tell? I'm acting like an economist. Hoom.

Where'd you find out about the list? Are you sure it's in the theatrical version, or perhaps the extended DVD? If it is... oh, hoooom!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

i just found it really funny to see my posts from another viewpoint... i usually dont think about what i post in that way lol

[Lady Ashley]

where did I find out about the list? lemme go find it...*runs off in another window to look* *knows it's somewhere*

aha!

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=4550&cid=8&cname=News

at this very website!

[Lissuin]

Welcome Singe! I am one of the lesser mod's, my greetings come from the utmost joy that you have joined us! :) Please stick around!

Oh, and concerning the Ents- I love them, except wouldn't you think Treebeard would walk slow all the time cuz he was quite hasty to get to the Entmoot......just a thought

Gollum looks really awesome! He's going to be greaat in the movies.:thumbs:

:eflqueen:

[Adunauriel]

Yes that was very unlike him (Treebeard) to be in a hast to get to the Entmoot... I thought it was funny also...;)

[Bawax]

Originally posted by Tar-Ancalimë
ha ha roflmao i saw this your post and nearly died of laughter, um, am i really that bad? lol


errr........... no comment *runs and hides* :p lol

i was a fan of gollum but not so much a fan of the ents, i think without the darker and more evil characters (Gollum, Saruman, Wormtongue, etc) it would be a much duller book, they make it worth reading i think. :grin:

[Catz]

actually.......i hate to admit this.......but hes right:rolleyes: lol.......without Gollum in particular a great deal of the unique quality of the book would be gone......
:catz:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

*chases both of them*

ha ha you guys are great friends http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/images/smilies/linkrolleyesMIR.gif

jk.... um i never said i think he shouldnt have been in the books. did i? did i?? no i dont think so. lol. just that i hate him. there are those that hate legolas. and he still should be in the books. except the hate is mostly because of the movie so never mind. grin. lol.

wow this post sounds dumb. its cause im so tired i guess. lol

[Singe]

I dunno... Gollum and the Ents are a lot more crucial to the story than Legolas... (not trying to start fight btw)

Gollum: destroyed ring (inadvertently saved the world)

Ents: Destroyed Isengard & commanded Huorns to destroy pesky orcs at Helm's Deep (saved world of Men!)

I think the world would have been okay with or without Legolas' help. Not to say he isn't a good character... but he's a lot less crucial than some of these others.

As for Gollum, I hate to think that as much as someone may resent him, they wouldn't say he wasn't fascinating!

And by the by, he was Tolkien's favorite character in Lord of the Rings. MUA HA HA HA HA!!! triumph.

Hoom.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

hmm im not going to answer that here. ive done it enough times in other places.

*runs off to go drag her irky into this thread (muah ha ha ha yourself ;))*

[Mirkgirl]

1st - She never dragged me in.... (good for my pm box hehe)
2nd - why should I be the bad one always... the meanie hehe

Well, I've heard he's one of his favourite characters but this means nothing. You can hate the author's favourite character and love his work.

And I love the way Gollum is represented... he;s a very interesting character... a real spice to the book.... But still he's neither a victim, nor a hero as I've stated my opinion many times.

[Ithielnor]

Gollum is an intriguing character, he really is a great study in human (or rather Hobbit) nature. His fondness for Frodo showed the battle going on inside him, he wanted the ring and yet he was bound by his own hasty oath, he new also that the ring could destroy him yet he was crazy to get it again. He gives us a idea of what Frodo or Bilbo might have turned out as had they been of lesser strangth. He is a pitiable creature, as Gandalf said, but a dangerous. I personaly enjoyed the chapters in which he is involved, and I look forward to seeing him in TTT.

p.s. I am also a Ent fan

[Adunauriel]

Originally posted by Singe
I think the world would have been okay with or without Legolas' help. Not to say he isn't a good character... but he's a lot less crucial than some of these others. I feel Legolas was totally crucil to the story.... He adds that Totally Hot Elf Factor (ok, maybe that was Orlando), but the book wouldn't have been the same without him......;) IMHO all the characters are there for very important reasons.....;)

[Mirkgirl]

exuse me, but what fondness? He gave oath to the ring-bearer, i.e. to the ring.. he didn't care for Frodo or anyone, all he cared about was the Ring

[Singe]

Wow, no offense, but how not perceptive! Of course Smeagol loved Frodo! And I don't use that word without caution, yes, Smeagol genuinely did have a love for Frodo. Do you not remember the debate between Smeagol and Gollum? I would go get it, but my copy of TTT is two flights of stairs away and it's almost 1:00 AM. Frodo was the first person in Eru knows how long that didn't beat the **** out of Gollum, and Smeagol recognises this. Smeagol does want to be loved by Frodo and visibly cares for him (see debate in chapter "Passage of the Marshes" I believe), but the ring has too powerful a grasp on him, so in the end he justifies it in his mind how it is right that he should give Frodo and Sam up to Shelob. But the ring isn't the only thing he cares about by any stretch.

Previous paragraph was not meant to be homoerotic in any way.

Hot elf factor *snic*:rolleyes: 'A course he adds to the story. But the world would have survived had he not been there.

[Akiba]

I don't really like nor hate Gollum I just pity him for some reason and I know there is someone out there who agrees with me cause I remember and yeah Gollum is a big part of the plot I guess but (and I'm referring to the movie) having Legolas there gave it a little more spice while Gollum gave me the err well he was errrr yeah but I don't hate the errr thing

[Little Devil]

I like Ents, they're brilliant :thumbs:

[Adunauriel]

Me too, Love the Ents..... There the best.......;)

[Ithielnor]

just a little to add to what singe said
The Two Towers, part II, chap. VIII, The stairs of Cirith Ungol
And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path our of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping sideways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo's head, drowned deep in sleep; upon his white foregead lay one of Sam's brown hands, and the other lay softly upon gis master's breast. Peace was in both their faces.
Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and the went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, as he turned away, peering back towards the pass, shacking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. The he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee - but almost te touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond his friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
just shows a brief glimpse at the gollum that might have been had he never met the ring, and also a touch of feeling deep within him.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

im not talking about smeagol. im not talking about what gollum could have been or should have been or might have been or started out to be. im not talking about a glimpse we have of him fighting (and loosing to) the power of the ring. im not talking about the "fondness" smeagol had for frodo.

and neither was mirky... she meant, fondness "gollum" had for frodo. anyway she is the most perceptive person i know... (you better see this post, irky, lol)

btw does your nick mean monkey or is my french really lousy? the latter for sure is true, but perhaps the former as well ;)

[Ithielnor]

*sighs* Tar, I don't think I'll ever convince you so I won't even try. You're a Gollum hater all through. I won't mention fighting the ring anymore cause you're right, he lost the battle. But that's not to say that he wasn't "fond" of Frodo in his own weak way.

btw, I refer to Gollum and Smeagol as him at DIFFERENT time periods (i.e. he was Smeagol before he got the ring, and Gollum after he got it).

p.s. hope the last comment wasn't directed at me cuz my french isn't any better than yours:grin:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

heehee. youve been trying pretty hard so far ;)

so do i! i hate gollum, dont really have an opinion of smeagol... he was just a sly little character who had a big opinion of himself... ee let me retract that, i do have an opinion of him, i just stated it lol

um no. to singe. i would look it up in a french dic but im too lazy. lol

[Singe]

*sigh* mmyep. Ithielnor and I can present evidence until we're blue in the face, but it does no good to the Gollum/Smeagol detractors. If you want to get technical, Gollum didn't care for anyone/thing but the ring, but Smeagol did. Strange that people don't have appreciation for such a complex character.. guess it's beyond them.

And yes, Tar, my name is a worn down thing I've had forever, and it does mean monkey. Sort of started with a Phantom of the Opera fixation (and that included the french language) so I called myself Singe Aliéné, or lunatic monkey. I'm rather attached to the name, so I use it all the time, or other forms. (SingeSmeagol on Tor.n, SingeStoor on rotten tomatoes, et cetera)

Back on the ent subject, has anyone heard the Treebeard sounds posted on TOR.n? Four are cool and endearing, but one... oh fo shizzle... it's scary. I'm not gonna say what it sounds like...

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oh thank you... i thought my french was terrible but maybe its not that bad lol

all right, all right, so far you've said nothing to convince me to like him... appreciation for the complexity of his character is an entirely different thing! :grin: i of course appreciate the complexity of his character, appreciate the way Tolkien created him, appreciate the role he plays (though mostly through evil) in the story... i just hate the guy, in a presonal sort of way. I'm far more inclined to side with Sam than with Frodo on the issue of dealing with him :)

[Sindarin]

Before I begin, don't assume I really like Smeagol, and aside from his grotesque second personality, Gollum, I can honestly say (after having already viewed TTT a few times) I feel genuine sorrow for Smeagol. Simply because of what the One Ring did to him, both mentally and physically. A wretched and insane creature who was once a Hobbit.

Now, despite his turbulent past, and even though Smeagol's initial, and final motive for leading Frodo and Sam to Mordor was to reclaim the ring of power for himself, I felt so sad while watching him onscreen. Especially when Frodo addressed Gollum by his proper name. Smeagol's expression was absolutely heartbreaking in that one moment. He appeared on the verge of tears because someone was showing kindness toward him.

Don't get me wrong, Smeagol (or his alter ego rather) was indeed a mere trickster, a miscievous maker who hated the two Hobbits and would sooner see them dead than help them, yet there was almost hope for Smeagol. After confronting and winning over his other, more evil personality, it looked as if a great burden had been lifted from his tormented soul. Smeagol seemed happier, more alive. Yet when he was captured by Faramir's men, and thinking he had been betrayed, his trust for Frodo diminished, and was taken back into darkness by Gollum, not to mention, defeated in a second struggle for power with his other personality in the end.

Although some might argue the only reason Smeagol was being nicer to Frodo was because he thought by earning his trust would get him closer to the ring, which could be true (and was true in the beginning) yet there did seem to be genuine emotion in his middle actions. Either Smeagol was indeed sincere, or he was playing the part of the deciever quite well. Which was truly the most unfortunate case in the end.

None the less, I do feel sorrow for Smeagol. He never possessed the ring, the ring possessed him, and Smeagol's mindless devotion for wanting the ring, for pursuing it as he did,
being the rueful creature that he was - the creature he had systematically become during the years of having the One Ring - that is what makes me express this limited amount of sadness for Smeagol. I say "limited", because I do remember, he's still a villian.

I could be wrong about Smeagol, yet I still stand by this. What can I say, I feel sorry for him. Most likely because of seeing what he had become. Of what the power of the ring created from him.

Any thoughts and opinions of any kind are welcome. :)

FRODO: It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
GANDALF: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand.

[Aranel]

I agree - you can't help but feel sorry for Smeagol. Gollum is an example of how much someone can be changed and corrupted - you pity him for the loss of his former self. I think the film did a very good job of showing this, and showing who Gollum really is.

[Nessa]

Sindarin, you're a sweetie. :)

I've felt sorry for poor Smeagol since reading The Two Towers for the first time. He tried so hard to do right sometimes, but in the end the Ring's malice got the better of him. Getting betrayed by Frodo (unintentionally, l might add) was the turning point.

Serkis was amazing. Not only did us Tolkien fans feel for him, but everyone did. It was a fantastic portrayal of such a complicated charactor.

[Lintefaniel]

The character of Smeagol is a briliiant combination of the struggle for self preservation. I love the way Serkis and PJ have chosen to portray him. He made me smile and he made me cry. I agree with you all, he's wonderful but still nonetheless creepy and cruel...;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I hope you don't mind that I merged your thread with the other gollum-loving one in here. If you want my opinion you can read the rest of this thread :)

[Sindarin]

I don't mind in the slightest, Tar-Ancalime. :) I didn't notice this thread before. Thanks.

[HeIsRisenIndeed]

Lol the ents rule!! (Second to Legolas, OF COURSE!)

I loooved it when they had their 'gathering' in TTT, and they took the whole long time to FINALLY DECIDE, 'you are not Orcs' LOL that was perfect!! And i thought it was soooo sad when the Ent caught on fire but then I was happier when the water came and put it out, hehe

[Varda]

I love Gollum!