What is the difference between Orcs & Goblins?

[Chaos Mage]

According to the director's commentary, it seems like Peter Jackson is saying that Goblins are just Orcs who live in Moria. When the Fellowship first enters the mines, Legolas picks up an arrow, studies it's tip and says "Goblins" but later, in Balin's tomb, they say "Orcs." This is what Peter & Fran had to say about this issue.


Peter: "The Orcs, or the Goblins, I don't know whether they're Goblins, we call them either Goblins or Moria Orcs."

Fran: "They're the same thing."

Peter: "The same thing essentially. We wanted to create a sort of race of feral creatures that live underground. They're a little different to the Orcs that you see elsewhere in the movie. They're much more, um..."

Fran: "Subterranean."

Peter: "Yeah, they're subterranean, large round eyes which would have developed so they can see in the dark."

Fran: "Very sickly skin."

Peter: "Yeah, pale skin, yeah. So we did put a lot of thought into it, and their armor is quite sort of cockroachy, and on some of their gloves they have little hooks which is what allows them to crawl up and down the walls."


This makes me wonder about the Uruk-Hai. If the Uruk-Hai are supposed to be a cross between Orcs & Goblin men, then does that mean they are just a cross between regular Orcs and underground Orcs? Is there such a thing as a Goblin at all???

I am very confused.

[TheRingBearer]

Yeah this is a bit confusing?? Did you get that dialogue from the commentary on the dvd ;) I thought I recognised it lol

[Chaos Mage]

Yes, that dialogue is from the director's commentary on the DVD. It isn't a 100% exact quote, but it is as close as I could get it.

[Sindarin]

I noticed that the Mordor Orcs and the Moria Orcs (goblins) looked somewhat different.

The Orcs of Moria indeed looked more "sickly". Their eyes were greater in size, their ears were more pointed, as well as a noticable difference in their armor.

Whereas the Mordor Orcs had more of a healthier, above-ground look to them. That is, if you wanted to call their look "healthy".

I suppose Goblins are Orcs to an extent. I guess the only reason they're reffered to as Goblins is because they live underground.

[Bonos-Girl]

i think that is the only diffrence...but i could be wrong!

[Orkybash]

Well, here's what Tolkien has to say on the issue:

(from The Hobbit)
"Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated as goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds). Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to those creatures...."

So Tolkien used the two words interchangebly, though he used Goblin more in The Hobbit (since it was more familiar to English culture) and Orc in Lord of the Rings (since he liked the word better than Goblin as it had less connotation). As such, that's what I keep in mind when I watch the thing.

Kinda like the difference between Hobbit and Halfling, eh? :)

[Lady Melody]

Agreed.

[Keverzwijn]

I think it's great that they used different kinds of orcs in the movies and they all look different with their specific armor and stuff. For instance when they showed the black gate in TTT, I saw that the mordor orcs were totally alike the orcs from the prologue in FoTR. Richard Taylor and WETA did a great job for the orcs.

[Hedon]

This has kind of been done to death but there's still some confusion around it. Put very simply there is no difference. Goblin was a word that Tolkien prefered when he wrote The Hobbit as a childrens book. Orc was a word he prefered when writing LOTR (deriving from Yrch the Elvish for the creatures). There is no division in size (Mordor and Moria etc) when talking about normal orcs/goblins. The racial difference between Moria and Mordor orcs is purely an invention of Peter Jacksons film.

The only Orc types that are racially different are Uruk Hai and Half Orcs. Half orcs were bred by Saruman by crossing Orcs and Men. Uruk Hai were bred by Sauron many years earlier in Mordor and were big fighting orcs. The film has created a lot of confusion with these last two by changing their origins on a number of counts.

[Sauron]

Tolkien says that he used "Goblin" for The Hobbit because it's a childern's book. He later says that he used "Orc" for LOTR because it was a older-reader book. It's the same thing, Uruk-Hai were Orcs and Men, Gandalf just said the wrong word in FOTR when he said "He's crossed Orcs and Goblin-Men" He should have said: "Orcs and Men".

[Gil Galad]

i beleive that goblin is an english translation of orc , and uruk translates to hobgoblin

[Gryffonheart]

I dunno... they looked very similar, but the goblins looked "cuter"--if you can call anything from moria or mordor 'cute'--than the orcs. Their eyes were different, bigger. And I got the impression goblins were more like animals in their way of thinking and speaking. I don't know if goblins can talk at all. And the way they scurried down those poles, they looked like animals.
...I looked and I actually couldn't find anything about the goblins in the books, so not help there I guess.