Did Frodo fail in his mission?

[Windwater Elf]

State your reasons for your answer.

My answer is yes. He was to throw the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom but he did not succeed in doing that. So he failed. Some may argue that he brought the Ring to the cracks of Mount Doom which is true of course but the main thing is that he failed to throw it into the fire.

[Orkybash]

(I voted yes, but after really thinking about it I've kinda changed my mind)

It's a complicated issue. Yes, Frodo was unable to throw the ring in, but it did get in. Yeah, it took a ring-crazed Gollum to destroy it, so Frodo failed to throw it in. However, that intervention was made possible directly by Frodo's earlier decisions. Guided by the wisdon of Gandalf, we went against his first instincts and spared Gollum when he was at Frodo's mercy. So if Frodo's pity had not stayed his hand, he would have failed, and most spectacularly at that! But earlier in the quest he (uncounciously) laid the groundwork for the mission's success.

I know it's an odd point of view, and not many people are likely to agree with me, and that's fine. At least we're debating something interesting! *coughwingscough*

[Sindarin]

Quite true, Windwater Elf. Although Frodo did indeed succumb to the power of the One Ring at Mount Doom, I believe he did succeed in his mission. Even though it wasn't he who destroyed the ring.

Although Frodo (under the possession of the ring) wished to keep the ring of power for himself at the worst possible moment, we must remember that he did endure, and accomplish so much during his journey to Mordor, and ultimately, to the fires of Mount Doom.

So, no, I don't believe Frodo failed his mission.

[Windwater Elf]

In my humble opinion, Frodo failed in his mission because it is by accident that Gollum and the One Ring both plunge into the fire. Frodo's mercy towards Gollum indirectly helped him at the end of the day.

[A! Elbereth]

He failed in one way, but succeeded in more than one. Although he didn't throw the ring into Mount Doom, he took it there, and that was what they were counting on most. Considering you can't destroy it if you don't get there first, Frodo succeeded in taking the ring to Mordor.

So, no, Frodo did not fail - he succeeded. But I can't imagine the guilt Frodo feels and some self-hatred for being tempted so greatly by the ring, and in his eyes, failing. Although he did not, which I believe he realizes in time.

My other reasons are stated nicely by Sindarin. :grin:

[Ithielnor]

I believe Frodo would say that he did!! but when we look at the response that Aragorn and Gandalf and the people of Gondor and the elves and.... etc. I think they were better judges than us. So I'll say that he did not fail because TOLKIEN seems to think he succeded.

[A! Elbereth]

I agree with that, Ithielnor...

poor Frodo, yay Frodo... :huh: its all so complicated, yet so simple lol

[Daisy Gamgee]

I choose yes, because he did fail in his ultimate mission which was to destroy the ring.... But.... I would also choose no because, as I think has been said, it was his earlier compassionate and courageous decisions that set the path they took. It could depend on what people regard as being the hardest part of the mission - the journey or destroying the ring.

[Lady Melody]

He may have failed in destroying the ring himself, but he succeeded in enduring the journey, with Gandalf's and Samwise's help... and I say no. He did not fail his mission after all...

[Windwater Elf]

I read in The Letters Of J.R.R. Tolkien that Frodo can be considered to fail in his mission although no one can blame him for failing as the task was beyond his ability. It is his kindness towards Gollum that saved him.

[TheRingBearer]

I voted no because, even though he did succomb to its evil, he did manage to get the ring a hell of a long way :)

[Adunauriel]

I belive Frodo succeded in his mission. He just needed a little help, but since he never asked for it. Gollum took the iniciative and bit his finger off....;)

[A! Elbereth]

Originally posted by Adunauriel
I belive Frodo succeded in his mission. He just needed a little help, but since he never asked for it. Gollum took the iniciative and bit his finger off....;)

I could quote that and hang it on my wall roflmao lol

[Eoliah]

Originally posted by A! Elbereth
I could quote that and hang it on my wall roflmao lol

I quite agree : Frodo did succeed in his mission. Because :
- at the end, it is not really Frodo who claims the ring to be his. It's the ring that express itself thru him. In fact, Frodo wants to destroy it. But he is lacking strengh to do it (remember, the ring took him his strengh).
- Gollum can be considered as a part of Frodo. As Frodo's mercy. So, he did however what Frodo would have done, throw the ring in fire. Remember Frodo reply at Smeagol, in the book when Gollum swear on the Precious ? :
"You revealed yourself to me just now, foolishly. "Give it back to Smeagol," you said. Do not say that again! You will never get it back! In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice...and such would be my command. So have a care Smeagol!

- And, don't forget that the ring was still on Frodo's finger. So, we can say "YES ! Frodo SUCCEEDED in his mission".

[Adunauriel]

Originally posted by A! Elbereth
I could quote that and hang it on my wall roflmao lol It's good to know that something I've said has an impact on people here....;) lol lol

[Stickman]

I voted yes. I feel like i should say no, but coming to think about it, it's just because i like Frodo. If you really think about it, I think that Frodo failed, because in that last moment he decided (more like was forced by the Ring itself) to keep the Ring, to not destroy it. He took it for himself, and if Gollum hadn't been there, he would've walk out of there and just left. Frodo's pity for Gollum wasn't only from him, but more from what Gandalf told him about Gollum, and from the connection that bonded them, both being Ring-bearers. Of course, after such a long journey, anybody would've give up to the power of the Ring, sooner of later, but the point is he gave up, so he failed.

[Mirkgirl]

Well you can make a thread about room decorations (lol) elsewhere ;)

About Frodo... I'd say no. He did the best he could. He was supposed to carry the ring to Mordor... together with the others, if possible... (Tolkien hinted - "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way." – stress is put on the way he has to walk with the ring, not a word about the act of destroy) and to destroy it somehow. That somehow was Gollum.

Frodo and the rest made the right decisions, regarding Gollum and the way to Mordor... they did what they could... it was time for fate (call it Eru if you want) to interfere and make the happy ending... that was what the characters could do… and when you do everything you can, the fate gives the last push (or at least that’s the way things should happen lol)

[Windwater Elf]

I still say that Frodo failed in his mission when referring to his mission per se but he was successful in getting the Ring into the fire because of the pity and mercy shown towards Gollum. A detailed explanation of this complicated matter is in Letter No. 181 to Michael Straight and Letter No. 246 to Mrs. Eileen Elgar in The Letters Of J.R.R. Tolkien - an excellent and an extremely valuable book as it contains the thoughts of Tolkien himself. I think this book is a must-have for every fan of Tolkien/Lord Of The Rings. :thumbs:

[A! Elbereth]

Originally posted by Mirkgirl
Well you can make a thread about room decorations (lol) elsewhere ;)

About Frodo... I'd say no. He did the best he could. He was supposed to carry the ring to Mordor... together with the others, if possible... (Tolkien hinted - "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way." – stress is put on the way he has to walk with the ring, not a word about the act of destroy) and to destroy it somehow. That somehow was Gollum.

Frodo and the rest made the right decisions, regarding Gollum and the way to Mordor... they did what they could... it was time for fate (call it Eru if you want) to interfere and make the happy ending... that was what the characters could do… and when you do everything you can, the fate gives the last push (or at least that’s the way things should happen lol)

I love this explaination

[Polly Sandybanks]

I agree with Mirky. I think Frodo did what he could, and the ring was destroyed in the end. He might have got a little help from fate, but maybe it was supposed to be like that. He says "I will take the ring to Mordor".. does he say he would destroy it? It's been too long since I read the books now.. I have to reread them over Christmas, if I can.

[Adunauriel]

Actually Frodo never says, he'd destroy the ring.. All he ever say's is that he'd take the ring to Mordor... So I believe your correct, and fate stepped in. Fate in the form of Gollum....;)

[Miruvor]

Frodo failed in his mission. He knew from the beginning at the council that destruction of the ring was the goal, whether he said it or not, he knew it. If you think not, then you are assuming Frodo was deceitful from the beginning for skirting the issue. And maybe that is true, since I felt he volunteered to take it solely because it already had a hold on him and he did not want to let it go, therefore, he was even deceiving himself a bit, to think that he could agree to throw it into the fire. Samwise is the one who got the job done. Frodo was the vehicle only - and a hard one to steer, at that.
Even with his heroic aim to go alone from Tol Brandir, if he had, the job would never have gotten done. Here again, Sam's Love saved the day (quest). If that Love hadn't been there, the quest would have failed.
Gollum was a lucky benefit, and because of Frodo's empathy towards another ring-bearer, Gollum got the chance to be in the right place at the right time to provide a way to get the ring off Frodo. If not Gollum, Sam would have had to force the ring from Frodo and possibly one or both of them may have gone over the edge. Sam, would have ended up a tragic unsung hero. But Frodo? Perhaps the depression he went thru for the two years after the deed, and choice to leave Middle-earth before his time, is a natural result of both having had to give up something he really didn't want to, and the knowing that he really could not have succeeded. One gets over addictions more quickly than one gets over regret.

[Rumil]

Originally posted by Eoliah
Do not say that again! You will never get it back! In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice...and such would be my command. So have a care Smeagol!



If u think about it Frodo warns Gollum three times. First when he promises
"It will hold you....Beware"
the second time is above and the last is just before it happens
"trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom"

Combined with Gandalf's foreboding that Gollum has a part to play it would seem that both Frodo and Gollum are fulfilling a destiny that is foretold.

[Gorsnak]

The good Professor actually commented several times on this subject in letters to various readers. He repeatedly describes Frodo as "failing" (almost always in quotation marks), and points out that the Ring at that instant would have been impossible for anyone to resist, and so we ought not take Frodo's failure as a moral failure in any sense. Indeed, he fully deserves the honours given to him as Ringbearer, for no one else could have borne the ring so far, and his pity towards Gollum was what ultimately saved the day. At some points, it seems (to me, at least) that Tolkien is suggesting that Eru Himself stepped in and tipped the balance in Frodo's favour, by having Gollum lose his, as it were.

[Gwaihir]

I voted yes because I thought that the whole point was destroying the Ring, and though he didn't do it by himself, it was somehow accomplished. :)

[Adunauriel]

YEp, atleast the ring was distroyed....:thumbs:

[Miruvor]

So the ends justify the means?

The question here was did FRODO succeed? Not, did the task get completed. It's obvious it would NOT have been completed, if left up to Frodo.

[Adunauriel]

True it wouldn't have been disroyed... All Frodo said he'd do, is take the ring to Mordor, and he did that... So in a small way he did succed in his quest....:thumbs:

[Miruvor]

Unless he totally had his ears plugged at the Council of Elrond, he understood what the 'quest' was. His intention had to be to cast it into the fire, even though he could not forsee at the time that he would change his mind. If his intention was only to 'take it there', then he was agreeing to the quest with his fingers crossed behind his back.

(Although I can see where a crafty lawyer might use that reasoning to get a client off the hook on a technicality.)

Saying 'I will take the ring to Mordor' could also be considered treasonous if the correct intent is not understood.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and give it to Sauron.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and drop it in the first pit I see.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and ask some Orc to carry it up the mountain for me.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and keep it and oust Sauron.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and then bring it back again.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and sell it to Sauron for a million bucks.
etc.

[Elanor]

Maybe I'm just too much of a Sam fan, but I think Sam ultimately was the real hero of the LOTR. I think he was the one who succeeded in his mission--he stayed with it to the end, no matter what. He was the bravest, most selfless, purest of heart of any of the characters. And in the end, he was the one who was rewarded the most in his life. He deserved it!

[Miruvor]

That's a very lovely thought. Sam's Love and Loyalty is what saved the day, and he himself was thankfully saved from the traumas and deterioration that the ring would have caused and in fact did cause to Frodo. But then we must go back around again to the fact that Frodo was sacrificed, martyred, you might say. The ending is sad and happy, all mixed into one. And they were both heros afterall. Maybe it goes back to the 'No man is an island' theme, and that we all depend on each other.

[Mirkgirl]

Originally posted by Miruvor
Unless he totally had his ears plugged at the Council of Elrond, he understood what the 'quest' was. His intention had to be to cast it into the fire, even though he could not forsee at the time that he would change his mind. If his intention was only to 'take it there', then he was agreeing to the quest with his fingers crossed behind his back.

(Although I can see where a crafty lawyer might use that reasoning to get a client off the hook on a technicality.)

Saying 'I will take the ring to Mordor' could also be considered treasonous if the correct intent is not understood.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and give it to Sauron.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and drop it in the first pit I see.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and ask some Orc to carry it up the mountain for me.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and keep it and oust Sauron.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and then bring it back again.
I will take the ring to Mordor - and sell it to Sauron for a million bucks.
etc. Heh I didnt say that.
What I mean is that no living creature has the strength to cast the Ring in the fire... so he did what he had to do... take the Ring to the Cracks of Doom... from there Eru/fate/whatever you call it had to step in... there was no other way... I cant blame Frodo that he couldnt do something which cannot be done.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Gorsnak
He repeatedly describes Frodo as "failing" (almost always in quotation marks), and points out that the Ring at that instant would have been impossible for anyone to resist, and so we ought not take Frodo's failure as a moral failure in any sense. Indeed, he fully deserves the honours given to him as Ringbearer, for no one else could have borne the ring so far, and his pity towards Gollum was what ultimately saved the day. At some points, it seems (to me, at least) that Tolkien is suggesting that Eru Himself stepped in and tipped the balance in Frodo's favour, by having Gollum lose his, as it were. I didn't know Tolkien said that... I always kind of assumed that Tolkien wouldn't be on the side of the people who say no one could destory the ring...w/out devine intervention and such. I guess now that I think about it, he certainly did write TLotR with that attitude...
and, of course, it's not a moral failure... simply a failure of will....


About Frodo's pity saving the day... I suppose that's a nice enough thought, but I always thought it was Gollum's own betrayal and corrupted nature that 'saved the day.' I personally am on the side of 'devine influence' but the case here, to me, is rather more that Gollum's nature required him to swear on the Ring, then break that promise... and the Ring did hold him to his word, with a vengence... however Frodo's pity could also come into this... do a good deed by the gods, get duly rewarded...


I voted yes. He failed. As MIruvor says, he knew he was supposed to destroy it. He even knew the Ring was corrupting him. He probably knew he wouldn't be able to destroy it the very instant he set foot into Mordor....


Frodo himself states "I have come. But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" Originally posted by Mirkster
I cant blame Frodo that he couldnt do something which cannot be done.He admits his own failure. It isn't that he can't do it but that he won't do it....





sheesh... if this post makes no sense its cause ive been up for almost 20 hours :rolleyes:

[Mirkgirl]

Originally posted by Tarster
Frodo himself states "I have come. But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" He admits his own failure. It isn't that he can't do it but that he won't do it....

sheesh... if this post makes no sense its cause ive been up for almost 20 hours :rolleyes: Well but is the Frodo who gave the promise in Rivendell the same as the Frodo at Mount Doom? Is he not changed from the Ring enough to say that its not the same hobbit? I think yes... And its normal to say "I choose" as he wants to convince himself that it was him who took the decision, but it wasnt.

Aw you never make sense honster... but then again neither do I :p

[Adunauriel]

It's so true, you two never make sence... But, I think you've hit upon a point... I believe Mirly is right.. The Frodo who made the promise at Rivendell isn't the same Frodo, who finally makes it to Mount Doom.. The Ring has made a profound change in him, one that would probably take many years to overcome... A change that I think he was still fighting even when he sailed to Valinor.. ;)

[Glarawen]

well he did manage to get it in the fire *somehow* soo in all reasonable terms yeah he completed his mission

[Filthylittlethief]

Hello
I think 'yes' as a proper answer. HE decided to let Gollum live!
But let's not forget: Sam also had an enormous part to play here! I mean , he CARRIED Frodo up the mountain, isn't that a wonderful metaphor? And Sam also decideed at the end to let Gollum live, when he had the chance to kill him. So all three characters are very much connected to each other and without any of them the quest would have been a failure.

[Glarawen]

It depends on the way you look at it really. Tolkien didnt put it blunt and the ending would have really stunked if it ended blunt. The story is really tightly woven all the way through therefore so is the ending

[Ludibunda]

Frodo, only with the help of Sam, the Fellowship, Gandalf, and Gollum (and fate) completed the mission. No one creature in isolation could or did fail/succeed. It was unmistakably a group effort!

[Periannath]

I haven't read all through so this maybe said already, but remember after the ring was destroyed, Frodo didn't wan't to talk about what happened in there with the others. Maybe that was a sign of that he himself thought he had failed. I voted No, since I think that in this matter, it was the final result that matters. Though I agree with the above, that sam rather was the real hero from She lob's lair and after...

[gwaihir the windlord]

Technically yes, Frodo succeeded in destroying the Ring for it fell in the abyss of Mt.Doom. We can say no he did not succeed for the Ring had overthrown his will to destroy it and if not because of Gollum, Sauron would have ruled Middle Earth and a great ruin will bend to his will. But let’s take the whole scene at a piecemeal way of analysis. Frodo’s character was built by Tolkien to represent courage in the race of the Hobbits. Indeed, in the Fellowship of the Ring, it was made clear that Frodo has an unadulterated intention for the Ring. During the Council of Elrond, he witnessed the argument and much contention among different people (Men, Elves, and Dwarves). He put forth his reserved strength and audacity to protect the Ring from imminent greedy seizers (for instance, Boromir who showed much liking for the Ring to be used in Gondor and against the Enemy himself). Then and there, Frodo brandished goodness or presumed settlement for Middle Earth. Then and there he succeeded in his resilience towards the Ring. His mission appointed upon his own will brought him much fear and also brought him more courage. It may sound ironic but we ought not to take for granted the background life of Hobbits that will probably answer all these queries. Hobbits and The Shire, much all we know are good, simple and peaceful people that there fondness lies on merry-making, eating, gardening and all the shiny, bright and jolly things on Middle Earth. They are isolated people, not even known to most of creatures so the Ring (brought by Bilbo) is indeed not only a huge gravitation from the knowing of hobbits but also an impending destruction to their lives. Hobbits don’t want much money or power. They just want to live in these holes with enough food to last them more than a lifetime. So the coming of the Ring to Frodo and learning its danger to the Shire, we now see the unfolding goodness in him. So from the Council of Elrond onwards we see the progress of Frodo. Despite the continuing struggle and his weariness, the time that had lapsed seeing him still forcefully wielding the Ring figuratively makes his mission a successful one. And the task does not merely consider the Ring literally being thrown into the mountain of Fire, but it also takes into account other factors. It was not all about the completion/accomplishment of the task makes one Ring bearer a successful one but it was all the various criteria that makes him victorious. His knowledge, instinct, wisdom and prevailing strength in the events where he thrusts his spear into the troll’s foot, leaving the Fellowship, sparing Gollum and more instances. Frodo’s relenting to the Ring in the end is practically normal for Gandalf and the rest did not say that they would expect him to absolutely resist the Ring for it is inherently treacherous. Middle Earth as a matter of fact has been fortunate for Frodo had made it that far. Frodo and Sam’s dynamic resemblance withheld Sauron’s unrelenting malignance, and had paved way for Aragorn and the rest to muster remaining might to rekindle the alliances and shatter treachery. If Frodo did not take the responsibility for the Ring, no one will. And the main theme of the whole epic is hope. Tolkien did not say that there is certainty in the story, that the Ring will be destroyed. As Gandalf said in the film (Two Towers), “All our hope lies in two hobbits, somewhere in the wilderness”.

[Periannath]

Basicaly I agree. It is a good analysys but a text that long should have a summary so we can determine your final opinion.

[gwaihir the windlord]

i respect that the text's length was grueling but this is the shortest i can have... sorry :(

[Ludibunda]

Prophecy indeed - Three warnings of Frodo to Gollum as three denials of Peter before the sacrifice of Christ. This part belongs in another thread. But the mission was never Frodo's alone. SInce the ring was destroyed, then everyone involved succeeded.

[Periantari Andruil]

very good points gwaihir the windlord
:thumbs:
Middle Earth was indeed very lucky that Frodo made it that far...i really do not blame him for succumbing to the evil forces at the end... that line he had in the chapter Mount Doom is so great: "I have come, but I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!" such a classic great line.... you kind of expected that to happen because even though we know probably even though against so much odds, the good guys are going to win and defeat Sauron.. that line is so cool...by Frodo claming the Ring as his own, he captured the attention of Sauron and all his evil forces turned towards Mount Doom instead.... he detracted attention from the war, and therefore all the evil that was concentrated on the armies were then placed on Mount Doom....

so i think Frodo really succceeded in his mission...he needed some help, and that help came from Gollum, somebody who has beared the Ring before and will somehow reconnect to it in his doom...

the fact that he went to Valinor at the end is sad, but he is wounded... he was wounded "with knife, sting, tooth, and a long burden"... his peace will come by his leaving Middle Earth... very sad mecry
but i guess it's for the best.....

to come to think of it, LOTR shows a story that has a bittersweet ending; on the one hand evil is defeated, but on the other end, nothing is the same anymore... the elves left Middle Earth, Frodo left... the dwarves reside in the North... and Men really dominate the land now...
but that's a topic for another thread (so i'll stop rambling =)

[Periantari Andruil]

besides.. who can really take the Ring for so long and not feel the ill effects from it? Frodo is indeed the one to do it since he's such a simple, yet wise, innocent hobbit! =)
and he made it...and with a little help from Gollum, he completed the Quest :thumbs:

[Beleriel]

Well, I say that Frodo succeeded in his mission by managing to actually reach his destination.

I think it was definately evident from quite early on in the book that Frodo would not be able to give the Ring up when he got there.

The reader is always wondering how he is going to manage it and I dont know about you, but I thought Sam would help in some way.

Theres no two ways about it. Sam and Frodo are a team that were absolutely essential in the completion of the quest.

Of course, the twist in the tale is that Gollum saves the day. Which takes the team effort into a further debate, in which I am fully engaged elsewhere (is Gollum a Hobbit?? :rolleyes: )

In short my answer is. No... Frodo didnt fail, he succeeded with the help of Sam and Gollum. :)

[Lasgalen]

This has been mentioned already about Tolkien talking of Frodo and failure. Here are the quotes: (both are from a letter to Mrs Eileen Elgar )
"Frodo indeed ‘failed’ as a hero, as conceived by simple minds: he did not endure to the end; he gave in, ratted."
"I do not think that Frodo’s was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted. Frodo had done what he could and spent himself completely (as an instrument of Providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could be achieved. His humility (with which he began) and his sufferings were justly rewarded by the highest honour; and his exercise of patience and mercy towards Gollum gained him Mercy: his failure was redressed. "

[Periantari Andruil]

very good points Lasgalen, but even though Frodo may not be a hero in the real sense, and even though he may have failed as a hero, i felt that he is still not a failure in terms of completing the mission... he was told to seek out the Cracks of Doom, and who would have thought that he would have gone so far? He made it, and even though Gollum ultimately had to bite off his finger, by his even reaching Mount Doom and saving ME by those means is considered a success...
Even though he may have failed as a hero (as according to Tolkien, he did) , his deed was heroic in nature ...and i felt that he was successful in saving Middle-Earth. :)

[Luthien Tinuviel]

I have to go with no, he didn't fail his task, though he didn't acheive it in the way he meant to. Even when you read FOTR you can see doubt, and fear, in people. Boromir, for one, thinks that Frodo will betray them, or that he will surely be caught, and tries to take the Ring for himself. Then, in TTT, it's even more evident, with the appearance of Gollum, and it's made clear that the Ring is getting ahold of Frodo. The other members of the Fellowship think that surely Sam and Frodo were dead, even in TTT, and they became more sure in ROTK. Not many people really expect Frodo to get to Mordor, let alone through it, him being a Hobbit when there is no hope that an even an Elf could accomplish the task. So when they do finaly get to Mount Doom that is a huge thing in itself, Sam sees that, but Frodo is too weak to notice much of anything. After possessing the Ring for about 18 years it was bound to have a hold on him, right? So having the courage and strength to get where he got to was huge. It could hardly be expected of him to give it up, even as close as he was and as dire as he knew the concequences would be. Put yourself in his shoes, what would you have done (anyone who says anything very different is trying to be noble, but is lying)? Because he had strong, wise companions at first he was able to make it to Emyn Muil, because he showed kindness to Gollum, he was able to get through Emyn Muil and the Dead Marshes into Mordor, and because he gained Sam's love he was able to make it through Mordor. He was such a perfect person all through the books, he just had to have some faults, and the Ring was it. But, because he showed that kindness to Gollum and Sam he was able to finish his Quest. If he'd been mean to Gollum he'd've stolen the Ring, or not been around to bite his finger off (meaning he'd be dead or dying), and if he'd been mean to Sam (and it would've had to be awful for Sam to dislike him) he never would've gotten nearly as far as he did. Sam gave up his food and most of his water, then carried him on his back most of the way up Orodruin. Just because he didn't get the Ring into Orodruin of his own strength and will doesn't mean he failed, it just means he only had so much strength and will, as all do.

[Periantari Andruil]

Very well said, Luthien :thumbs: i really agree with most of your points in saying that Frodo had to gain the foresight of sparing Gollum and having him lead them to Mount Doom, and because of Sam's loyalty and love, he was also able to make the last stage of the journey because of that...
i also agree that the Ring does take hold of him but by him going that far into Mordor and to Mount Doom, in it by itself is quite a feat and of course he had the help of the Fellowship, Sam, and Gollum...
I do not reject the idea that he failed in the way of claiming the Ring by itself, but having the Ring for such a long time, he was the best candidate for carrying the Ring into the Fires of Mount Doom and for his foresight and kindness towards Gollum and Sam, he was able to accomplish the feat even though he claimed the Ring as his own....
so great points Luthien Tinuviel :thumbs:
:)

[Luthien Tinuviel]

One thing I forgot to say, okay so I didn't forget I just thought of it today... Anyway, his original mission was only to get the Ring to Bree, and he did that, then when he got to Rivendell he thought he was done, so going all the way to Mount Doom was something much more than he had expected to have to face. And yet he did it.

[Periantari Andruil]

To Rivendell is the movie version.. in the book version, Frodo did have an idea of where the ultimate destination should be... but it is true that he has hobbit-like courage and resolve bring the Ring to the very Cracks of Doom...and for that he is definitely successful =)
yay Frodo! hehe ;)

[Frodo's Love]

;) You're right!
Frodo did something that even Galadriel or Gandalf feared. I think it's already been said, but it has also been a group effort, at first the help of the fellowship, and later Sam's company. Frodo knew that he was the only one who could and had to fulfill this task, and he accepted it. And he was even aware that the Ring claimed him, but he didn't give in: he didn't turn away from it, but he also didn't give in to the lure of the Ring until the very end.

So he definitely didn't fail in his mission. That he pitied Gollum could have been wisdom or foresight, but Frodo knew deep in his heart that Gollum had to fulfill something in this quest.

I think Frodo didn't fail because of Sam, because of Gollum (!) and because of his own willpower on his way to Mordor. He went on even if he thought he had to die, and so did Sam. It's true, Frodo wouldn't have made it all alone, but without Frodo the Ring would never have reached the Cracks of Doom.

[Luthien Anwamanë]

He didn't destroy the Ring but he brought it to the mount Doom.

[Arninquelote]

Frodo didn't fail, but fulfilled his destiny in bringing the ring to the Crack of Doom to be destroyed. At no point is it stated that it is his preordained fate to destroy it, and Tolkien does imply that the Ring chooses its bearer and therefore each of the ringbearers has little influence over what happens to it. The ring 'chose' Gollum at the end, and it is Sam, who bore the ring for only a short time and therefore is less susceptible to its influence, that has the pivotal part to play in sending Gollum over the edge and the ring to its destruction.

[Aravail]

im not sure how to answer this question :huh: i think he failed... but then again he didnt. he came all that way bearing the ring and he never let it completely take over him... so in a way he succeeded. but it was his "duty" to drop it into the fire and that filthy stinker gollum did it for him... :grin: if gollum hadnt done it, who nos what would have happened to the hobbitsmecry :o :hmppf:

[Gilraen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orkybash
[that intervention was made possible directly by Frodo's earlier decisions. Guided by the wisdon of Gandalf, we went against his first instincts and spared Gollum when he was at Frodo's mercy. So if Frodo's pity had not stayed his hand, he would have failed, and most spectacularly at that! But earlier in the quest he (uncounciously) laid the groundwork for the mission's success.

I agree. Frodo's choice to spare Gollum's life made him succeed. Another choice he made earlier that also "laid the groundwork for the mission's success" and that was the decision to let Sam come with him. Frodo wouldn't have gotten very far without Sam.

[Luthien Tinuviel]

As he says just at the end of TTT "Frodo wouldn't have gotten far without his Sam" I love that line! Why is it that TTT is so full of wonderful lines like that.

Oh yeah, and something I noticed last time I watched FOTR, Sam has really great lines about 3 minutes before the end of each movie after Frodo says "I'm going to Mordor alone!" Sam says "Of course you are and I'm coming with you!" and after that it's "I made a promise Mr. Frodo, a promise, 'Don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee' and I don't mean to, I don't mean to" Then In TTT he's got his Speech and him talking about "Frodo and the Ring of power" what do you think he'll have at the end of ROTK, and will it be one line, or 2 as in the other 2 movies. Of course there's always "I'm back" but will there be anything else?

[Gilraen]

Originally posted by Luthien Tinuviel
what do you think he'll have at the end of ROTK, and will it be one line, or 2 as in the other 2 movies. Of course there's always "I'm back" but will there be anything else? [/B]

Sam does have some great lines in these movies, I really love him. But even if there isn't anything else, I'll be happy with "I'm back" because to me that ending to the trilogy (the books, I don't know about the movies yet) was perfect.

[Periantari Andruil]

Sam definitely is one of my favorite characters...
According to Tolkien, he would be the real hero in the story... he is the epitome of one of the best humble, loyal, sweet, courageous, and determined characters in the book... He stayed with Frodo till the end and i'm glad that he had that hope speech at the end of of TTT... Also, starting from Book 4, you can see that the point of view is usually told according to Sam because Frodo is so burdened by the Ring...

To get back on topic, i would say that Frodo did succeed because of his earlier choices that he makes, but obviously everyone in the Fellowship is integral to his success....

[Luthien Tinuviel]

Originally posted by Gilraen
Sam does have some great lines in these movies, I really love him. But even if there isn't anything else, I'll be happy with "I'm back" because to me that ending to the trilogy (the books, I don't know about the movies yet) was perfect.

I completely agree. :) Just "I'm back" brings me to tears, I don't even know why. I think I'll be taking more than one box of tissues to ROTK with me. lol It'll just be so sad.

[ImDaMom]

And we know Frodo must have succeeded on some level, or ME would have ended, with no chance for Aragorn to be King. Sam truly had the major role in making sure the quest succeeded. I love Sam. The unsung hero of LOTR (Is there a thread here???? Possibly. I may have to start one ;) )

[Mirkgirl]

Thread about Sam? Sure. here (http://warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4122)

[Aranel of Mirkwood]

The fact remains that though Frodo took the Ring to th Cracks of Doom. He could not throw it in. Therefore I think he failed. However he did suceed as the ring ended up in the cracks of Doom. But only because of Gollum

[Periantari Andruil]

That may be true, and Tolkien may agree with you that Frodo was not totally successful in the way that a hero may be interpreted as...but to have gone as far as he has, bearing that great a burden when Sauron was accumulating more of his power day by day, you must take off your hats for Frodo for his effort....and for me, i think his effort counts just as much, so that's why i think he succeeeded even though he couldn't actually throw the Ring in..... he came pretty close....

:frodo:

[Frodo's Love]

Somewhere in Toliken's Letters is written that an important part in fulfilling the mission was Frodo pitying Gollum and giving the poor creature a chance after all. I have to search for the particular letter, but after all, destroying the Ring has been a team effort. Nobody could have done it all alone. Not Gandalf, not Sam, not Frodo, nobody.

[Gollum the Great]

ok I think that he did accomplish his quest because his quest was to take the Ring to Mordor and destroy it, he got the Ring into Mordor and to the Cracks of Doom,even though Gollum destroyed the Ring the quest was done and as long as Frodo didn't let it go into the hands of the Dark Lord then there was always a better chance of getting it back form a lesser being rather then the Dark Lord. So Frodo you did us proud!! And Gollum you ROCK still!!! My hats off to the both of them

[Gollum the Great]

ok now that i have been thinking about it he did and didnt fail
He failed because he came to the temptation of the ring
But he didnt fail because of his pitty of Gollum,cause w/out that pitty then Gollum wouldnt have been spaired and w/out that he wouldnt have bitten off Frodo's finger so really Gollum is the hero!!! Go Gollum
My perciousssss

[Periantari Andruil]

NObody could've destroyed the Ring. Nobody. As Frodo's Love has said,
Somewhere in Toliken's Letters is written that an important part in fulfilling the mission was Frodo pitying Gollum and giving the poor creature a chance after all. I have to search for the particular letter, but after all, destroying the Ring has been a team effort.
Frodo was redeemed for pitying Gollum....
but seriously, this Quest in throwing the Enemy's Ring down into Mt. Doom is a fool's hope and was really against all odds of it ever being achieved.
But in terms of Frodo failing in throwing it in...yes he did fail.
However... no one could do it out of his free will so therefore one cannot blame poor Frodo for not being able to. I had to tell so many non-bookies about the fact how Frodo succeeded (by sparing Gollum)l... and that no one should be angry at his claiming of the Ring. You kind of expect it afterall with all of Tolkien's clever foreshadowing,,, =)