Ring Cycles---incorrect!

[Floaty]

There are many erroneous statements in this article that compares Wagner's Ring of the Nibelungs to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.
The author of the article says "The Ring of Power itself is Wagner's invention". He obviously hasn't read Norse and Old English Mythology.

" The Elves need Sauron to forge their Rings of Power" is not exactly accurate.

"Tolkien's immortal Elves must leave Middle-earth because of the fatal assistance they took from Sauron." Apparently, the author hasn't read the Silmarillion either.

"What Tolkien has in mind is nothing more than the familiar observation that the high culture of the West arose and fell with the aristocracy... when this disappears, the great beauties of Western civilization and much of its best thought disappear with it." This is a large conjecture on the part of the author.

"The world that remains after the Elves board their gray ships and sail into the West is devoid of beauty and wonder. The kingdom of Men that emerges from The Lord of the Rings is a humdrum affair, in which the best men can do is to get on with their lives." I don't seem so to rmember all the beauty of the world going with the elves.

"Even the anti-heroes of this anti-epic, the Hobbits who bear the evil Ring to its ultimate destruction, cannot remain in Middle-earth; they sail off along with the Elves. " And of course we know that only one hobbit sailed with the Elves.

I think this Author should have studied his material a bit more closely before writing the article.
Floaty

[Snapdragon]

Hmmm...two hobbits, I think. ^_^ With another possibly following thereafter.

[Thorondor of Manwe]

I agree - Wagner's Ring Cycle was not an influence on LOTR. However, both Wagner's Ring and LOTR used the same source material - Norse mythology.

[Samwise2]

i thought it was three Bilbo, frodo,and sam

[Alatar]

Yeah it is im sure of it Bilbo and Frodo go with Gladriel and and them and i think it is years later that Sam accepts fate and sails there.

[Samwise2]

yeah he does after rose passes away , he give all the book that he and frodo wrote to his children and whent to grayhaven

[Alatar]

we're so smart:thumbs:lolroflmao

[Snapdragon]

Yes, but it's not clear whether Sam made it all the way to Valinor, or not. ;)

[Samwise2]

Hi snapdragon
to answer your quesrion its in the appendix at the back of the rotk book it says
1482
Death of Mistress Rosie , wife of Master Samwise on mid-year's day.
OnSeptember22 Master Samwise rides out from bagend. He came to the tower hills, and is last seen by Elanor, to whom he gives the red book afterwards kept by Fairbairns.
Among them the tradition is handed down from Elandor that Samwise passed the towers, and went to GreyHavens, and passed over the sea, last of the ring-bearers. If you have the books read the back and most of the answers are there

[Mirkgirl]

Well Tolkien is a hit now and many people who have skipped through the book write such articles... the same thing happens with everything, people rarely pay attention to those articles anyway...

About Sam - well it's just Elanor and a few vague phrases that prove that Sam really did sail. Anyway it's 90% sure, just Tolkien didn't say it straight forward. I believe Sam did tho.

And one more thing - I have edited Snapdragon's last post because of the dark blue - please don't use colours which make it hard to read, thank you.

[Snapdragon]

No problem re: the blue posts. ^_^ Darn, though.

Oh, I've read the appendixes a few times, and I believe Sam made it, too. (Although I admit the last time was a couple years ago...) But my point is that it never was positively settled either way. That's why I said "another possibly following thereafter".

[Snapdragon]

...Anyway, I have to laugh, because none of this is particularly relevant to the topic, but I just noticed Floaty miscounted his hobbits (and also I spelled 'appendices' wrong). *l* I know Tolkien mentioned in The History of Lord of the Rings that the intention was that Sam and Frodo both end up in Valinor to recover.
lol

But it'd be an interesting book-related discussion as to why he didn't explicitly say either way. Hmmm...

[Lasgalen]

Back to Wagner's Ring opera. I have heard of comparisons between Siegfried and Turin. Both befriended a Dwarf who betrays them and is killed for it (Mime by Siegfried, Mim by Hurin). Both have a reforged sword. etc. Also, both stories involve a brother/sister relationship. All in all, I think these are common occurences in mythology and doesn't mean one is a copy of the other.

-Lasgalen