About Sam and Frodo inside Mordor (pos. spoilers)

[Agrippa]

I wonder what Pj make out of Frodos "death". Maybe he let Sam weep and then take the ring, and all the audience, including me, weeps until the the popcorn on the cinema floor starts to float. I know PJ is good at these moments. But!: I really hope me makes good things about this particular scene. Maybe he change scenes after Sam takes the ring to switch back to the other heroes, so WE really believe Frodo is dead. Make him dead a long time, kinda... I dont know really.

I really dont hope Sam hears the orcs to quick, like when Aragorn dies in TTT. When he died, it was no tense. I didnt like that...

Also I am kinda smart today! I think maybe that PJ let Galadriel say in both FOTR and TTT that the quest will claim his (frodos) life just to make sure that the audience will believe that Frodo dies. I read here that no one ever thinked about that before, i guess, but imagine if PJ cut Galadriels voice in exactly when hes being "killed" by shelob. "The task will claim his life". Then everybody will believe he really dies... I REALLY WANT HER VOICE CUT IN THERE!

Hold on...! I got more stuff, its 4.30 in the night here but now its the time!!!: OK here it comes. I have thinked and speculated on my own here, and after these 2 movies i have found out how PJ thinks.

I dont even think that Sam will hear the orcs talk about Frodo, instead i guess PJ will make Sam walking around to destroy the ring, when finally he hears rumbles and he goes to see what it is. THEN HE DISCOVERS FRODO! That is what I think. That would be more PJ:ish to do it. And i support that change.

Oh wee. Now I want to see your replies!

[Stickman]

Welcome to the forums!

I fully support all your ideas! I'm sure they'll make Frodo's "death" a lot real, and it'll be great!!! And i can see that too, as Sam approaches the laying body of Frodo... "The quest will clame his life"... It would be really awesome. Also, maybe Gandalf could have some sort of "intuition", something like a bad feeling or something.

I would like to see how he handles Sam discovering that Frodo lives. He should go into "Samwise the Brave" mode or something like that, killing orcs with Sting and saving him! That would be great.

Do you think they will dress as orcs too? Will Sam fight that "orc" that appears in the calendar? Will Sam kill Shelob or just wound her? All this questions will be answered within the next year...

[Agrippa]

Some things I hope PJ will include:

When The Mouth of Sauron shows Gandalf Frodos clothing, I hope he hasnt revealed for the audience that Frodo is alive. That would be mighty!

Also I guess Sam kills Shelob.

And let him slay the orcs when rescuing Frodo, it seems to difficult for PJ to show how the rumours spreads that an elven warrior is inside, and then believing so when Sam arrives. I guess he kills the remaining orcs instead and then dress him and Frodo like orcs.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

to tell the truth im sick of Pj's 'deaths'... ill be a little annoyed after frodo's death to the cave troll... aragorn's fall off the cliff...

i know its written in the book but pj has shown he doesnt mind changing the book to make what he thinks is a good story...

obviously too he thinks 'deaths' make a good story but by now hes overused it!

[Agrippa]

I guess you have seen the ROTK calendar, so we know Frodos death is in it...

[Tar-Ancalimë]

uhm yeah i looked at those pics, but not closely enough i guess lol

[Little Devil]

I really didn't like Frodo's 'death' with the cave troll, him looking as if he was dead, then Aragon turns him over and whohoo he's alive and NOT hurt, then why did he make such a big del out of it??? PJ's very good with the suspense thing, the one death I thought was really good, was Boromirs. ;)
P.S I think the calenders are brillinat, I sooo want one. :p

[Huan the Hound]

As for Frodo's 'death' in Moria, I wish that PJ had done it like Tolkien decribes it. Even though everyone thought that Frodo was dead in the book too, it wasn't over dramatised. :rolleyes:
Will that make the death by Shelob less convincing? I don't know but I hope it is milked for all it's worth! :grin: mecry

I really liked Boromir's death too, probably because he really did die :p ;) mecry

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yeah and if you dont consider that tolkien wrote gandalf's death and that he truly did die, PJ has overdone the 'death' thing... i'm really tired of it, myself... i mean, suspense is good, but honestly, the entire Fellowship buried in the snow??

ah well... still great movies :)

[Little Devil]

That was funny, it made me laugh lol though I see what you mean Tar. ;)

[Kalimac]

All of the near deaths are in the books . . except for the Aragorn and Brego sequence. In Fellowship, Frodo in the book is stabbed by the WK and almost dies, Frodo is also injured when he is skewered by a troll in Moria . . and, by the way, Sam is also hurt in Moria, and Gandalf the Grey does fall to his 'death'. Merry is overcome by the black breath, Pippin is swallowed by Old Man Willow, all four hobbits are dragged into the barrows . . and appear dead .. . it is only Frodo resisting long enough to summons TB that saves them all . .the hobbits do almost freeze to death in the snow . . so, if anything the movie has less death and injury scenes in it than the book . . and, I havn't even gotten to The Two Towers yet.

In the book, TTT Boromir is killed, Merry is knocked unconscious, Pippin spends much of his time passing out on the backs of the Uruk-hai, Frodo is temporarily blinded, Pippin is brought back to the light by Gandalf after looking into the palantir, Gimli is thought dead at Helm's Deep, and I think Eomer at one point is thought lost too . . we all know what happens to Frodo.

And, Return of the King . . oh brother . . lets see . . the following either die or are thought dead at some time . . Theoden, Merry, Eowyn, Faramir, Denethor, Frodo, Sam, Gollum, Saruman, Wormtongue, and Pippin. I won't even mention the bad guys. Tolkien had plenty of angst too it seems.
:naughty:

[Cuthalion]

Way to go Kalimac! No further questions the defense rest his case.....By the way let's hope that when the Mouth of Sauron shows the stuff to Gandalf, Frodo still be "dead".

[Stickman]

Yup, it better be that way, otherwise it loses quite a lot of it's punch

[ImDaMom]

Kalimac- for several days now I've been pondering how exactly to say the exact thing you have so eloquently stated. But for Aragaorn's "death", all have been written by JRR himself, and many have been left out of the movies. Yes, it is repetetive, but this is how the books were written. "Purists" especially should not cry about all the deaths and rebirths. It is truly JRR's Catholic background coming to the fore.

[Thorondor of Manwe]

The wound that Frodo received by the Cave Troll differed from the book. In the book, Frodo received the blow from an Orc chieftain. PJ adapted the scene from the book and had the Cave Troll deliver the blow instead. Did PJ overplay the "death" scene? No, not really. In the book, it is very clear that Aragorn and Gandalf thought Frodo was dead.

'I am all right,' gasped Frodo. 'I can walk. Put me down!'

Aragorn nearly dropped him in his amazement. 'I thought you were dead!' he cried.

'Not yet!' said Gandalf. 'But there is no time for wonder...'

The main link in PJ's adaption is Frodo was protected by the mail of Mithril given to him by Bilbo. The others weren't aware that he was wearing such a wonderous coat of mail. The other link is that the others thought Frodo dead because of his wound.

So, PJ wasn't really out of line here. If anything, he made a nice, smooth adaption, albeit with a few slight changes.

[bab5nutz]

They actually stuck reasonably close to Frodo being 'dead' and then the others finding out that he was alive in the film. The one thing they changed, was that in the book no-one knew they Frodo wearing the mithril shirt until they were actually out of Moria. Still that was a change that made sense, and a pretty minor one compared with some of the others that were made.

But I suspect that the moment when Sam thinks Frodo is dead and he decides to go on alone is going to be played for all it's worth. It'll be a real blubfest.

My mother saw the ROTK calendar picture the other day - the one where Sam is holding Frodo in his arms - and she nearly started blubbing right there and then.

I also expect that ROTK will be one of those films where you leave the theatre totally wrung out emotionally. The last film that did that to me, apart from FOTR [TTT was great, but didn't have quite the same emotional punch] wasTitanic .

[Little Devil]

Titanic was brilliant, I'm sure that Rotk will be quite emotional at some places, I thought that Fotr was better in emotion and getting the audience really moved than TTT. ;)

[A! Elbereth]

Oh definitely, RotK will be *extremely* emotional. Do you know how many people get severly injured, die, almost die or are corrupted in ROTK? Not to mention beyond-reckoning sad end? (and that a one character almost dies 3 times in RotK.. ;))

Now I have the urge to count how many there are... lol

[Periantari Andruil]

Originally posted by Agrippa
I wonder what Pj make out of Frodos "death". Maybe he let Sam weep and then take the ring, and all the audience, including me, weeps until the the popcorn on the cinema floor starts to float. I know PJ is good at these moments. But!: I really hope me makes good things about this particular scene. Maybe he change scenes after Sam takes the ring to switch back to the other heroes, so WE really believe Frodo is dead. Make him dead a long time, kinda... I dont know really.

I really dont hope Sam hears the orcs to quick, like when Aragorn dies in TTT. When he died, it was no tense. I didnt like that...

Also I am kinda smart today! I think maybe that PJ let Galadriel say in both FOTR and TTT that the quest will claim his (frodos) life just to make sure that the audience will believe that Frodo dies. I read here that no one ever thinked about that before, i guess, but imagine if PJ cut Galadriels voice in exactly when hes being "killed" by shelob. "The task will claim his life". Then everybody will believe he really dies... I REALLY WANT HER VOICE CUT IN THERE!

Hold on...! I got more stuff, its 4.30 in the night here but now its the time!!!: OK here it comes. I have thinked and speculated on my own here, and after these 2 movies i have found out how PJ thinks.

I dont even think that Sam will hear the orcs talk about Frodo, instead i guess PJ will make Sam walking around to destroy the ring, when finally he hears rumbles and he goes to see what it is. THEN HE DISCOVERS FRODO! That is what I think. That would be more PJ:ish to do it. And i support that change.

Oh wee. Now I want to see your replies!

oh no...does Frodo die in ROTK??? :(
that'll be soo sad :(

i remember Galadriel's "The Quest will Claim his life..."

I've been scared ever since i replayed that scene and heard my friend tell me about that...

but...the main character can't die, can he????mecry

[Tári Celebrindal]

so...i'm guessing you haven't read the book yet? lol

i read somewhere that PJ had three different lengths of the film and the cast and crew watched them to see which would be the best one to be shown in theaters, and it was written in the article that everyone was crying or near tears only 20 minutes into the 3-hour version.

so I guess the best thing we could do is to arm ourselves with boxes of Kleenex...i'm thinking it's gonna be a real cry-fest. lol

[ImDaMom]

Well, if he begins (as hoped) with Shelob, then you know the first 20 minutes are REALLY sad...just think of that pic from the ROTK calendar with Sam holding Frodo. :mecry:

[Miruvor]

oh no...does Frodo die in ROTK???

Certainly. ;) Why do you think it was so common sometimes back to see
"Frodo Lives"
bumper stickers.

[ImDaMom]

It was on my bumper in college, (too many years ago) and is now my screen saver at work. Either Frodo does indeed live, or I'm in a real rut. :lol:

[Periantari Andruil]

no, i know that Frodo lives in the book, but does he in the movie?

[ImDaMom]

That, my dear Andruil, we will have to wait and see. However, one must Peter Jackson, and the fact that so far, he has yet to kill anyone (permanently, that is) that is not killed off in the book.

[Periantari Andruil]

i don't know..but that quote from Galadriel (from TTT movie) scares me...:mmmm:

[Miruvor]

She might have been referring to the fact that he leaves for the Havens at a youngish age, because of his depression and ruination of his happiness by the ring.

[Periantari Andruil]

perhaps... that is a good point...
i hope so..i hope that is what she is referring to...:mmmm:

thanks =)

::can't wait till ROTK:: :)

[ImDaMom]

I think it is metaphoric..it will claim the life he knew.

[Ireth]

Originally posted by imdamom55
I think it is metaphoric..it will claim the life he knew.

I totally agree....I think that when gollum fall sinto the fire in mount doom and everything starts to shake...that it will go back to the black gate and gandalf will say " The realm of Sauron is ended! The Ringbearer has fulfilled his quest!"
And then Gandalf will get on the eagle Gwaidir and fly off

then it will go back to frodo and sam and that conversation that they had mecry and then gwaidir swoops down and lifted them up and bourne them away.

But that is just what i think..and that is also pretty much straight from the book... but i hope it goes that way:blush:

[ImDaMom]

Is it December yet??? :lol:

[Nessa]

I know I'm pages too late, but going back to PJ's constant uses of 'Oh no, they're dead, wait no they're not,' I agree with Tar. I don't think its all that far from the book, and I don't think its just "purists" who think its a bit much. He's used that ploy so many times that I think it will lose its power by Rotk. Thats not to say I don't want Frodo's 'death' to be shown, because thats very important to what Sam does, and thats not to say I won't enjoy it, I just think it won't come off as well. Just my opinon, of course. :grin:

[Rock26]

I had no problems with the deaths in the books,so why should I have a problem with them in the movies. Also, it is not the certainty of death which grips you in the story, it's the possibility that it could happen. I remeber reading the books and thinking there was no way Frodo was dead after Shelob's sting. But there was that tiny bit of doubt which made it nerve-racking.

[ImDaMom]

AND it made you keep reading. Isnt that what storytelling is all about?

Welcome, Rock, from another Ohio LOTR fan

[Ireth]

Yes that is exactly what it's about! I don't think pj is overdoing the deaths in the movie. I t really gets you into it. I remember when Aragorn fell of that cliff I was like nnooooo!! Even though I read the book and knew that he didn't die I still was affected by it.

[Periantari Andruil]

PJ just dramatizes too much...:-p
i was rewatching fotr last night and thought the whole bit with Frodo "dying" for like 5 minutes in Moria when the cave troll stabbed him with a spear was way too much...
i mean he can make it look real, but not overdo it by overdramatizing because it just makes it look inappropriately bad...

[Ireth]

You do have a point Andruil....hey ......i watched the fellowship last night too! Thats cool...

[ImDaMom]

But the whole "death" was slow motion, giving the other Fellowship members a chance to react. I thought it really was well done.

[Periantari Andruil]

hehe..imdamaom, that is a good point...but i still thought that it was too much:-p IMO

:thumbs: to Ireth for watching fotr last night as well =)
(i have to finish the last quarter tonight...from lothlorien on) :)

[Ireth]

yeah a little too much but the way that he doest distracts from how many times he has done it