Arwen's Placement in ROTK?

[Iarfirithwen]

Okay obviously we all know Arwen is in ROTK (and those you who have not read the books and don't want to find out stuff not that you'd probably be in this forum anyway, but well I'd suggest you stop reading now ;) )



Obviously in the books Arwen is there at the end and I guess she'll be there at the end in the film aswell. But its most likely that she'll have to be in there before that. They're surely not going to be able to justify Liv's salary if she's in a quick coronation/wedding thing towards the end. Any ideas?
Over in the TTT thread where we were discussing the apparent filming of Arwen at Helm's Deep (thread) (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&postid=69208#post69208), Miruvor raised some good points and suggested Arwen turning up with Anduril might set of Eowyn's depressive/kamakazee turn (probably a good way to do it the movies) so this would probably have to happen before The Paths of The Dead.
So what if Arwen does meet up with Aragorn before the end? What if she even goes with Aragorn on the paths of the dead? Lots of what if and conjectures on a sensitive topic but I'm curious whether everyone would be as miffed by this as with the prospect of Arwen at Helms Deep in TTT.
Anyway this was a bit of my post in the TTT thread, just thought it relevant here:
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"Oh I hope Arwen DOES show up in ROTK especially towards the end lol with the Banner, though I guess as you point out, someone is going to have to turn up with Anduril. I suppose Arwen turning up before Paths of The Dead would be one way to set up Eowyn's, as you put it, "Depressive funk"(I like that ;) ). Also makes it easier to explain why she falls for Faramir, without making it like an abrupt change in the direction of her affections (which in a short movie would look abrupt, relative to the books). Hey maybe Arwen goes with Aragorn that way, along the paths of the dead.
Alternatively Elrond could turn up with Anduril, tell Aragorn that Arwen is off losing her immortality in Lothlorien (which should have the same depressive effect on Eowyn) and Arwen could turn up in the end with the banner :grin:
OKay that loses Aragorn's whole "is she going to spend her life with me or not" thing from the books but I suspect there wont be any of that anyway if Arwen turns up before the end.
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Actually if Arwen is allowed to go on the Paths of the Dead and Eowyn isn't allowed (obviously, she's got a date with a tall, dark and evil ex-king ;)) I'll be a little miffed (not as fuming livid as I would've been if Arwen was fighting at Helms Deep) but it would make it look like Eowyn's a pail weak thing, almost childlike. Okay I know Arwen's an elf and probably stronger than Eowyn, but I feel it would undermine Eowyn's strength evident from the books.
And that should not happen ... ever " :)
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I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, and I have faith in PJ doing a brilliant job on ROTK, I'm just curious how Arwen would be included in ROTK. How else do you think they might include Arwen in ROTK before the end?? More flashbacks? ...

[Arwen Undomiel]

hi again iar!!!! *waves*

well i suggested in the aforementioned thread that a scene in the ttt preview trailer back in march of aragorn and arwen laughing and looking really happy could be a shot of their reunion or even (hope hope) their marriage in rotk???

i definitely think arwen will present aragorn with anduril, and i've read that the one of the scenes from the march '01 ttt preview trailer of narsil being re-forged will definitely be included in rotk.

also, another point to add is that arwen's GOT to make an appearance in the middle of the movie, 'cos there's no way liv tyler would be limited to only having scenes at the very end of rotk.

[Iarfirithwen]

:wave: Hi there again Arwen Undomiel, keep bumping into you tonight lol

I know the scene you're refering to and it would make a great reunion scene wouldn't it.
Oh I agree that Arwen will have to be in there before the end. As I said I doubt they could justify her salary or 'top billing' status if she's in it for a couple a brief glimpses at the end. that's why I'm curious how thet're going to include her.
It would be cool if she was in it, but didn't meet Aragorn until the end. And I kind of agree with what you said in other thread about not wanting to presume how they'll do a reunuion. Part of me doesn't want to guess either. But then there's a part of me that is curious what other ideas people might come up with. :huh:

[Arwen Undomiel]

it's not that i don't WANT to guess, just that what with all this stuff about her being at helm's deep, i'm not going to start making too many assumptions. i'll just pray that pete jackson doesn't go totally of the rails when it comes to cutting rotk!

i'm still glad u started this thread 'cos it's just nice to get ideas throwing around, and who knows? maybe someone will hit the mark with their suggestions! :)

[Iarfirithwen]

Thanks Arwen :grin: Yeh I know what you mean. Thats why I said I don't want to start up a hornets nest with this thread. The whole Helms Deep thing got a bit heated

[Arwen Undomiel]

oh yeh! lotta angry ppl there (me included)! ;)

[Iarfirithwen]

Me too :grin: . Only thing LOTR related to ever make me livid verymad

[Arwen Undomiel]

definitely. just can't believe pete even contemplated having scenes of arwen at helm's deep, let alone actually FILMING them! arrr!

but i really hope her reunion with aragorn will be joyful and romantic, and that there'll be a nice wedding scene! hmmm, this may be asking for a bit too much... lol

[TheRingBearer]

The worst thing that could happen is if she turns up in one of the battles and fights alongside Eowyn or something...
*thinks about it and cringes*

[Altáriel]

The worst thing would be Arwen killing the king of the nazgul instead of Eowyn.

[Iarfirithwen]

:elfeek:Totally true and then she casts the ring into Mt Doom. *gasp* You never, never know :elfeek:
Nah PJ just wouldn't do it . Gee, I don't know about PJ being killed but he'd be castrated by the fans first ;) Anyway, Miranda has dropped enough hints to know she does. But then you never know what they'll do during the additional shoots in May (or whenever) , anything is still possible and that is scary. Hey. I'm all for keeping Arwen in Rivendell or Lothlorien until the end with the banner :grin:
Rule # 1. There is No usurping of Eowyn's thunder :nono:
Rule #2: There is no rule 2.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

*tar shakes her head*

i know pj cant please everyone. but a point was mentioned about 'justifying her salary' ... it seems to me he tries to please the majority, right? and it seems to me the majority is livid about prospects of her fighting....or even appearing in the second movie (though i dont think its made anyone livid, it certainly wasnt my preference.....)

so why in hades did he pay her such a large salary?? i know, her name and all :rolleyes: ... but why is Liv even playing the part, she doesnt even look elven :(

aarg... my idea of the ideal arwen would be.... the love scene in rivendell (that was great... better than the books imho, cause in the books it comes a rather a shock when aragorn brings arwen to gondor)......and the marriage in rotk.

since i know this hasnt happened, im just grateful that she hasnt had fighting roles. the 'come and claim him' bit was enough for me :grin:

so, back on topic, her role in rotk ought to be confined to the wedding and possibly bringing the banner. another flashback scene wouldnt be bad... meeting aragorn again in person before the ring is destroyed would make me mad.... no justification for such a thing, and it would be completely out of character for arwen (not that liv hasnt accomplished that already :rolleyes: )

[Sharky]

I think Arwen will present the reforged Narsil to Aragorn early in the movie, which leaves two options, 1) she rides with the Rohirim to Minas Tirith, or 2) She travels via the paths of the dead.

Either way thats far too much screen time as far as I'm concerned, so if she makes it to Minas Tirith she should be confined to the kitchen to do the cooking and washing up.

[Miruvor]

Why can't she come, then go back to wait it out in Lorien? That's not too far away.
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Well, if PJ hadn't screwed up the plot line already by having
A & A split up, then Arwen could stay out of it until the end, but as it stands, they MUST reconcile somehow before the wedding can take place. I also suspect it will be early in the movie so that Eowyn can stomp off heartbroken and go kill that nazgul!

But another option I just thought of after watching FOTR again is that, the breakup is only shown in retrospect as happening BEFORE he left Rivendell. But later, when Aragorn is talking to Galadriel in the EE, they talk as if it's not really absolutely decided yet.
Then in TTT when he is telling Eowyn about it, he states Arwen is going to the Havens like he is pretty sure she is.
So it is POSSIBLE that another flashback will show up that indicates they came to some agreement to 'think about it and decide later' and that would ease my mind about Arwen showing up as a respected partner instead of a jilted girl begging Aragorn to take her back.

Since we can't wish Arwen out of the story at this point in the game, all I can do is stay worried about how this plot can possibly be straightened out.

[Rumil]

I reckon it would be typical of how PJ has been working these movies/the fans to show Arwen getting on the ship to Valinor (everyone thinks gasp how's he gonna get out of this) and then have her turn up at the mouths of Anduin and give aragorn the sword before the pelennor? As i say just conjecture. My 'most likely' guess is that she'll show up where Halbarad and the grey company show up in the book ie as Theoden leaves isengard.

[Arwen Undomiel]

i've seen a pic which is supposed to be of arwen in her wedding dress and she looks resplendent and very queenly. i can't wait for her marriage to aragorn! and especially to what he will wear!!!! CORRRRR!

[Altáriel]

Untill now, Arwen had has more action scenes than Eowyn, and PJ has to put things right in ROTK and that means Arwen shouldn't have more fighting scenes and Eowyn should do something else than kick the witchking butt (maybe she will safe Faramir from the orcs or from the witchking instead of Theoden, that would be quite a nice beginning for their love story, maybe she'll kill wormtongue...).:whoohoo:

[bab5nutz]

From what I understand, Faramir's near roasting from his not-so-father has been filmed, and will be in ROTK. I think that pretty much rules out Eowyn saving his life.

Unless of course, she saves him from Denethor after she's dispatched the Witchking ...

Eowyn could be a busy girl!

[Veefy]

i guess Arwen near start of movie - reforge the sword - revealed that she doesn't go to the Undying lands.

then 1/4 to 1/3rd through. Arwen gives the sword to Aragorn - Aragorn goes on paths of dead.

Then the tricky part - when does Arwen turn up at Minas Tirith?

My idea for a bit of a PJ twist - she arrives after Aragorn set off for final battle at black gates.

[Celebriel]

Well, I think she can be in the beginning somewhere to present Anduril, and of course at the end for the wedding. There will probably be flashbacks and retellings of the Arwen/Aragorn story, maybe even with material from the books but not seen before.

IFor example, it needs to be revealed that she didn't leave Middle Earth, despite the scene in which she seems to leave her father and take ship. In TTT her father Elrond presents her with the dismal picture that even if Aragorn regains his kingdom, eventually he will die, and if Arwen chooses mortality, so will she. He's also trying to do what' he thinks is best for her, to spare her pain and death.

Also, more background needs to be presented on her longstanding relationship with Aragorn. Their engagement scene (from the FOTR book) hasn't been shown. I don't think she's been jilted by him at all in TTT--he is saying the right things because he wants what's best for her and is very conflicted about her giving up her immortality to marry him. He's certainly not "available." He tells Eowyn that the woman who gave him the pendant has left Middle Earth because that's what he feels is the best thing for her (Arwen)

Celebriel