congratulate me and answer me this

[Grima Wormtongue]

ok 1st off congratulate me i have just finished the silmarillion, which means i can finally now start reading and posting in this forum, ive been avoiding it for a while as to not spoil anythgin. so yay me.

anyways, few questions

1)where did hobbits come from? it explained the boirth of elves and men and dwarves and briefly touched on wizards. but no mention of hobbits. basically the elves abnd wizards have a concil and mention hobbits, but no where does it say where or when they came from. (im sure it says somewhere in appendixes but ya figure since a hobbit plays such a big part in WOTR theyd mention their birth in the sil.)

2)ok, and explain this to me, correct me if i misunderstood it, but in the last chapter it says mithrandir(gandalf, right?) and the rest of the couincil has no clue where the ring was then they all learn it was found by smeagol then lost and then found by bilbo and taken to the shire. then it says mithrandir learns of the ring. now to me it sounds like all this happened without gandalfs knowledge, like he never went on the expedition with bilbo and the dwarves. or does it mean that he jus never realized it was the ring till later. although i got the idea that he knew(or atleast thought) it was the one rign as early as the hobbit. so did i misunderstand sil or hobbit or lotr or is something messed up?

3) now that i have read silmarillion, hobbit and LOTR whats next? i was considering getting the 4 part history of lord of the rings set(The Return of the Shadow (Part 1), The Treason of Isengard (Part 2), The War of the Ring (Part 3), The End of the Third Age (Part 4)) but im not sure if there is any other info in there that wasnt in the other books. i also have the complete illustrated tolkien encyclopedia which has lots of info, but of course is not detailed. so, yeah, what should i read next? HOTLOTR? History of Middle Earth? lost tales? unfinished tales? or should i reread LOTR(itll be my 2nd time). and also if anyone can give me a short summery of the books(more than "short tales is tales that are related to the sil and LOTR" as most websites say) id much appreciate it.

[Lady Ashley]

Congrats, Grima! It's a good book.

1) we don't know where Hobbits really came from or who created them and stuff. In the Prologue "Concerning Hobbits" of Fellowship, it says, "The beginning of Hobbits likes far back in the Eldar Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time, and their traditions are concerned almost entirely with their own historym in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all"

So really, we don't know. Maybe it's somewhere in other long-lost books the Prof wrote, but we simply don't know. They'd been in Middle-Earth for a while, it said, but not known by other races for a long time. The hobbits actually came from Wilderland and crossed the Misty Mountains for some reaosn.

2) Gandalf learned the Ring was the One when he put the Ring in Frodo's fireplace. But he suspected, but was not sure. (someone corect me if I'm wrong, please!)

3) As for after The Sil, The Hobbir and LOTR, I don't know. I myself neve read the HOME series or Lost Tales 1 and 2, simply because they confuse me, presenting different variations and stuff, whereas I like things to be set out in an orderly form like the main 5 were.

[Finrod Felagund]

1) In my readings of other books, I've never seen a good explanation of the origin of Hobbits, I think it is one of the mysteries Tolkien liked to throw in there, like what happened to the other two Istari, what happened to Men that drove them into Beleriand, etc.
2) Gandalf (=Mithrandir) knew it was a magical ring and had his concerns but Lady Ashley is right about him not knowing it until it was put in the fire.
3) Read Unfinished Tales. good stuff on Turin and Galadriel/Celeborn and others. It is considered mostly canon and is more story telling, not as much a compilation of different versions of the same story. HoME books are more a history of the making of the story of ME, Lots of versions of the same story with Lots of editorial comments by Christopher Tolkien. IMHO HoME are good for reference but don't get them expecting a good story

[Grima Wormtongue]

thankas for all the input. but none of you have read "the histosr of LOTR" series? its diff from HOME series. and whats the diff between lost tales and unfinished tales?

[Mirkgirl]

1) It's not said anywhere... if you want maybe the most widely accepted opinion (which I share) try this link - The Periannath (http://warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2386)

2) Gandalf found a document that tells about the fire letters in the library of Minas Tirith and after the test he was sure. Before that he knew that Bilbo had ring of power, but the sweet lies of Saruman that the one ring has been lost forever in the sea blindfold him for long time.

3. the histosy of LOTR is actually part of HoME... check this thread (http://warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2241) for more information.
IMO you should first read Unfinished Tales, they're good, real story, real answers.

[Illuvatar]

I agree with Mirky....

Unfinished Tales is a great book, the only thing is that the title of the book is accurate! You get sucked into a great story and just when your really really into it, POOF, your off into another story!

But the endings are actually contained in other books, and the details that are included as part of UT make it well worth the read.

[Grima Wormtongue]

ok, unfinsihed tales it is

and another question, not sure if this shoudl go in sil or in LOTr, but whatver. in FOTR it says saruman had a ring(as gandalf was first going to orthanc) now, to my understanding from the sil saruman didnt have a ring but one elf offered him the ring of fire and he denied it(im assuming cuz he didnt want to be controlled by sauron if he came back, right?) and then gandalf took it. now, maybe i missed soemthing(i read all 5 books at work between phoen calls so some stuff is unclear) but i dont remember saruman having a ring.

and another thign i remember a few times in the sil they mention a ring of doom, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before sauron makes the ring or even before hes in power really. so what is this they speak of?

and about gandalf not knowing that it was the one ring, thats what i thought, but the way it said it in the book(remmeber i was at work reading liek 2 sentecnes then a phone call, 2 sentences then a phoen call...) it sounded liek the whole hobbit adventure had happened and gandalf hadnt gone. it jus seemed they were doin other stuff then had a council and were "oh yeah, soem hobbit found a ring" anyways, after hearing yer answers i re read it(that chapter) and it makes more sense now.

[Mirkgirl]

The ring Saruman wore wasn't a ring of power, it was just a symbol of what he claimed to be.
He was never offered a ring the ring was meant for Gandalf and Cirdan gave it to Gandalf. Saruman did came first and Gandalf last, but neither Saruman nor any of the other istari even knew that Cirdan kept the ring of fire to give it to one of them.
I believe it was said that when Cirdan saw Gandalf, he understood that the ring was for him.
Ring of Doom is the other name of Máhanaxar where the the Valar sat in council. It's near the gate of Valinor.

Hope that explains it :grin: If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask!

[Grima Wormtongue]

yeah, i figured it wasnt a ring of power but my dumb gf (who never read the sil and read LOTR 4 years ago) insisted it was and that i ask about it.

about the ring of fire, as i stated before i read at work (sentence, phoen call, sentence phoen call) so i misunderstood that gandalf was offered lead of council but refused and gave to saruman. i thoguht they were talkign abotu a ring. stupid me.

thats what i figured bout the ring of doom, but correct me if im wrong, in the second to last chapter (akallabeth) it mentioned a ring of power that sauron had. again i coudl be totally wrong, but i thoguht i read it.

anyways, thanks so much for the help, you all are great

[Gwaihir]

Congratulatoins, Grima! :thumbs: Glad you made it!

I think I'll start reading the History of Middle Earth soon. I'm starving for Tolkien books these days.. :)

[Bonos-Girl]

I realy need to buy myself UT part one...i have 2nd part..and have read it about 3 times (although only ever read about half of christopher tolkiens addition bits explaining stuff cos i get bored....)

[ImDaMom]

UT is really the best way to continue your journey in ME, Grima. As has been said, it really delves deeper into stories (Hurin, for example, and Galadriel) that make you want to go back and read Sil again, which makes you want to read LOTR again, which makes..........(sort of like "if you give a mouse a cookie")
(a children's book I'm particularly fond of) That being said, another book you may want to have around is the Tolkien Beastiary. It gets into the creatures, animals, birds, etc that inhabit ME. Either that, or the Tolkien Companion. It's sort of a dictionary of ME, and invaluable when reading Sil.

[Gil Galad]

1. it is said somewhere that the hobbits are related to men, so therefore i would assume that they were men who diminished in size(or maybe all men where small and they just didnt grow) and evolved into a peple apart
2.as far as i know, you have it rite , he suspected the ring was the one ring but didnt know for sure
3.Unfinished Tlaes is very good

[Algamesh]

I would just like to promote the "Atlas of Middle-earth" to your list of reading. Although not a "Tolkien" book, I have always found it very resourceful and it helps to visualize the geography of Arda. The Atlas takes you from the beginning through the 4th Age. The author is Karen Fonstad I believe (I'm at work ... don't have the resource with me).