The Weapons of the Elves

[TrueSwordsman]

When I first saw Arwen’s Sword I was not sure how I felt about it. Then after hearing some commentary at a later date the weapons the Elves used made sense. The elves had much more knowledge in weapon smith had different build and fought differently then men of course their designs were going to be different than that of men. I have to admit when I read LotR at the age of 13 I had always pictured the swords in the traditional medieval style.

Tonight I saw Arwen’s Sword in person for the first time! What you see on screen does not even begin to tell the tale of the beauty and power in this blade. By the look of their weapons you would expect the Elves to fight in an Eastern style similar to that of a Samurai, but watching Legolas fight as well as Elrond (at the beginning of Fellowship) the Elves definitely use a European Medieval influence. Though the use of slashing rather than cleaving has a hint of the Japanese Katana it suits the type of weapons they are using. Similar types of weapons and fighting styles can be historically linked. Like the "Warbrand"-this sleek, two-hand, part polearm, part sword is versatile enough to be wielded while on foot or horseback, and light enough to be swung with one hand if need be. It can chop, but it has a point suitable for thrusting. It can be viewed at:

http://armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=1557&Category_Code=WSC

Note the similarities to that of the elves, and it is a real historical weapon!

I will have the opportunity to see the Daggers of Legolas (Unofficial) in about 2 weeks.
If www.armsofvalor.com Arms of Valor, Ltd. can come close to capturing the beauty of Legolas’ Daggers they will be an amazing pair of weapons to hold and wield. Not only that but they are going to be battle-ready! I plan on posting a thread on two hand-fighting styles once I have had the opportunity to hold the blades.

[Elceleb]

Have you watched the "Inside the Effects" videos on the official movie site? There are some great parts describing the weapons and the influences for the various styles of the different species.

[Ludibunda]

Elceleb, thaks for the tip - I'll run over there!

Just from watching the commentary I see there was a lot of attention to detail in the making of the film which is sadly lost in the viewing. Several members have posted photos of their purchases and finally we can see the beautiful artistry on the metal, hilt, and scabbards. I'm anxiously awaiting the Weta Museum display on the east coast of the States! I know the weapons collection is substantial!

[Alatar]

the elves have always excelled in the art of making weapons since they came into existence

[Voroturiön]

Well...although the Warbrand is somewhat similiar to the Elven Warrior Sword, the ratio of blade to pommel is completely different.

Actually, the EWS is based on the Nagamaki - a Japanese sword, a precusor to the Nagasaki polearm.

Nagamaki (http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/noldorianwarrior/Nagamaki.html)

[Finrod Felagund]

I read an interview with the stunt coordinator who was responsible for all the fight scenes. He said PJ had given him liscence to create the fighting styles for all the ME folk. He said he tried to give each race a unique fighting style, not necessarily based on any real martial art. I can't remeber where I read this maybe at TORN.
There has been some speculation about the Warbrand over on Swordforum International. The origins and historical authenticity are somewhat shakey. The inspiration for that sword came from a Midieval Bible and several of those folks who are sword afficionados believe that it is a scavenged polearm like a glaive that has been cut down to be used as a sword.

Voroturion- where did you read/hear that the Nagamaki is the basis for the EWS, I agree that it is the closest modern weapon but everything I have read is that the EWS were a unique design

[TrueSwordsman]

When I read the Lord of the Rings for the first time I did not picture any of the swords or fighting styles to be even close to anything Oriental. Until the movie I have always pictured them as standard Medieval-broadswords or daggers. The designers did put a cool twist on the blades, but even after handling Arwen’s Sword I still just can’t get used to the non-European style of the sword. I recently read that Tolkien (who loved Beowulf) wanted to create a similar history or saga that pre-dated the History of England. Beowulf is a saga from Scandinavia and Tolkien wanted a saga from his beloved England. In short, though beautiful and very interesting I believe the Elven design in swords and armor for the movie are way off the mark. The only thing that hit the mark was the Bow designs. Now I am ready to receive the bashing of those of you who loved the design, but that is what the forum is for.

[Nilion Elentano]

It is not a common reference to western cultures the heritage of their weapons, specially those forged by small unregarded bladesmiths, but the katanas are nothing else than the answer to sabres, rapiers, and scimitars, I have seen a few knives made by Italian craftsmen that you would think are Tantos, but they are actually European models that tell a hidden story of weapon smithing in Europe, contrary to what a lot of people think, the Elven infantry sword is nothing else that a cross between a Machete blade, with scimitar curve, and a long curved handle, that has absolutely nothing to link it with Eastern weapons, as for Arwen's sword, no Japanese sword has a curved handle, you can see rapiers like that, but obviously you need to make changes to adapt them to a culture like the elves, so yes they mixed a bit things there, but their main influence is still based on European weaponry.

[TrueSwordsman]

I am happy to hear that. You are one of the few people who hold the same belief that Tolkien's world would not be Inhabited by Samurai Katana swinging elves. I hope more people can read your comments and quit saying the Elves were fighting like Samurai.

[Nilion Elentano]

The thing is that we can't blame them for they have as very common reference Anime, and samurai and Kung fu movies as only alternative source to the medieval sword fighting world, which is what most book sellers and documentary and movie makers exploit, read well the Katana is an answer to Chinese swords, and to European fencing swords, before that their main weapons were always the Bow, and the Quarterstaff, th eonly factor that determines the evolution of weaponry is a challenge, if you find a faster opponent, or a larger opponent you seek to become the handicap by improving either your weapon or your technique, in Eastern countries the Japanese were the only succesful ones, and that's why most other Eastern countries developed martial arts, if you want to know, Tae Kwon do beyond the philosophical facts was invented as a way for Koreans to defend themselves from Raiding horsemen, hence the use of long kicks, and high jumps, so that they could reach the horsemen, but we do not see any elf in the movies doing karate or kung fu moves, do we? The only thing that makes an analogy betwen elves and samurai is the clothing and the similar armour (plaques and cloth for the elves. Plaques , bamboo and cloth for the samurai) that's where the similarities end, neither the style nor the weaonry have anything to do, and don't come to me and say that the elven spears are evolutions from the Naginata.
<winks at True Swordsman> Here we are defending the western weaponry heritage.

[Greenleaf]

I have a question: how did elves keep their bow and arrows on their back OVER their cloaks?

like this:

http://www.zippyimages.com/files/57384/legolas.jpg

It looks like the straps go right into the cloak. Btw, where the heck is his bow? I'm so confused. :huh:

edit: for some reason the picture's not working, I hope you guys still get the idea.

[Eomund]

in excel you see the pic...and it is weird..

and for Nilion Elentano, id say that they hold the sword or whatever it is as the samurai did... And the spear, something lke this was called Indian weaponry...

[Bane of Lunazra]

maybe, because the elves excelled in the usage of long bows (at least elves from mirkwood), they adjusted the string so that it fit along their middrif. and then over one arm. :rolleyes: idk lol just a guess