Who should be Arwen

[Finrod Felagund]

OK, Everybody hates Liv as Arwen
Who are your choices for Arwen in PJ's role?
Also what are her key attributes

Mine: maybe Famke Janssen (Jean Grey in Xmen) or Milla Jovovich
( 5th Element)

Attributes: Beauty and Grace

[Nessa]

Hmmm...... I don't hate Liv as Arwen, although I agree there could have been a better choice, but I can't really think of any. Famke Jassen might be good, if they steer towards a more subtle beauty, you know what I mean.

[Catz]

ive said this before but i think we should have swapped Liv for Natalie Portman.....Portman is beautiful, and a more classic beauty than Tyler, shes also a deeper actress, and has the ability to portray a core of steel, that Tyler lacks....i could imagine Portman with a sword...whereas Liv......roflmao ....otherwise Jannsen would probably have worked, tho shes a little older than ideal....ill have a think;) :grin:
:catz:

[Pil]

Portman wouldn't have worked cos Arwen's head-dresses are FAR too small for her! lol Only kidding! I'm sure she would have done well...i agree with the core of steel thing... :p

I know i've already mentioned this elsewhere, but i think that Nicole Kidman has that strength in her too and would have made a really good arwen! Plus she's more local than liv! :p ;) :)

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

The only thing wrong I see with Natalie Portman playing Arwen is that the role would be, redundant for lack of a better word. With Star Wars under her belt as most recent films, this would kinda be overkill in my view. Get someone fresh and new to add to the pot.

I say, Jessica Alba... :loveyou: :cuddles:

http://image.pathfinder.com/ew/features/010320/darkangel/img/daopener.jpg

:thumbs:

[Catz]

Hmmmm didnt think of her....good thinking Oro....fan by any chance?:rolleyes: lol roflmao
:catz:

[Aragorn Isildur]

I once said Milla Jovovich to play Luthien in The Sil but i dont think she could have portrayed Arwen any better.

Aragorn:king:

[Pil]

Why not? :huh: :dragon:

[Finrod Felagund]

I think she would have been able to play Arwen better, she's more attractive (JRR compared Arwen to Luthien so the actress imho should have been DEVASTATING), better actress, more range, might have better played a more physical Arwen, and just appears more Elf like.
In fact, the more I think about it she's definitely my choice.
Oh well, they never asked me so I'll just go sit in the corner and sulk.pfbbt

[Pil]

OY! THAT'S MMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYY CORNER!!!!! *pil glances towards her corner to find a guy sitting there...and decides to sit on top of him* :battle: lol

(I see what you mean about the Luthien beauty thing...OT!) :embarras:

[TheRingBearer]

I'd agree with Longshot that Famke Janssen would look the part but you have to give credit to Liv Tyler as she did manage to speak the elvish very well. :rolleyes:

[Bawax]

after seeing the film i'd say that Liv Tyler plays the part well, i can't think of anyone who i'd rather see in the role. :)

[Pil]

Originally posted by TheRingBearer
I'd agree with Longshot that Famke Janssen would look the part but you have to give credit to Liv Tyler as she did manage to speak the elvish very well. :rolleyes:

But ANYONE would have been speaking elvish well with all the training they got. You'd have to be COMPLETELY thick not to! C'mon they had voice and language coaches for crying out loud! Liv did nothing special! :battle:

[TheRingBearer]

True, true lol

[Catz]

*catz wanders in and shoos bawax back to his "I love Arwen" thread*
tsk tsk.....this is for alternatives to ole rubber lips:naughty: ;) lol
i tend to agree with Pil there...and Viggo sounded just as good and hed had much less time to learn it...
:catz:

[Sindarin]

After watching FOTR several times, I can't imagine anyone else portraying Arwen, but Liv.

Yes, I too realize that concept's difficult to comprehend. lol

I agree that Natalie Portman would've made an excellent Arwen, yet, aside from her Star Wars fame, she seems too young looking for the role.

If P.J. ever does consider making the Silmarillion into a movie, Milla Jovovich would make a good Luthien! :thumbs:

[Catz]

thats the trouble tho....ive seen the movie many, many times, and i still think she could be improved on every time....Elrond ive gotten used to, but i just cant stop wishing for a better actress in that role.....;) :cool:
:catz:

[Sindarin]

I agree, Liv's portrayal as Arwen could've been improved upon on several levels, yet we can always hope that Tyler's performances in TTT and ROTK will be better than perviously seen in FOTR.

[Bawax]

Originally posted by Catz
*catz wanders in and shoos bawax back to his "I love Arwen" thread*
tsk tsk.....this is for alternatives to ole rubber lips:naughty: ;) lol
i tend to agree with Pil there...and Viggo sounded just as good and hed had much less time to learn it...
:catz:

i don't love her. :blush:

well maybe a bit but who doesn't? (no answer to that please :grin:)

other possible actress for the part of arwen? winona ryder, she's like a little pixie woman, she'd suit well.

[Pil]

:nono:

Can u imagine Cameron Diaz?! lol

[Catz]

no.......and i dont want to start now!!!!:rolleyes: ;) lol lol
:catz:

[Arwen Elf]

I should be Arwen. (Not really, but I thought I would put in mytwo cents.)

[Undomiel]

I cant really imagine ne1 else as Arwen now, i've seen the movie too many times. I think if ne1...I agree with the Famke Jansen suggestion.

[Elf angel]

Chalize Theron ( did i get her name right?).
She's tall & very pretty.:p
:angel:

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

Famke is absolutely mind numbingly gorgeous! but I think she's a bit to harsh looking for Arwen, not to mention a little to aged.
Milla is sexy, but nothing special and she's a terrible actress, again she's too old.
Natalie. very beautiful, very elvish but also very young. She has the right acting ability but I dunno, theres something about her that just isn't quite right for Arwen.
Winona. very piskie-ish, but not very pretty. good actress though.
I'm going to have to say that Liv is my ideal Arwen, always has been, always will be. sorry!
though Charlize would make an ok Eowyn, same as Nicole.

[TheRingBearer]

Am I the only one who thinks she didn't do a bad job :grin:

However, saying that I don't agree with her appearence at Helms Deep but nonetheless, would not mind seeing more of her ;)

[TheRingBearer]

As long as she doesn't screw up the films of course :blush:

[Little Devil]

Originally posted by Sindarin



I agree that Natalie Portman would've made an excellent Arwen, yet, aside from her Star Wars fame, she seems too young looking for the role.



Natalie Portman would have made a very good Arwen, and she's pretty too.

[Elf angel]

Originally posted by Little Devil


Natalie Portman would have made a very good Arwen, and she's pretty too.
Pretty yeah but she's not tall enough...emm maybe a hobbit! A very pretty hobbit maiden..:grin:

[Pil]

That's true...i don't see her as being....extended enough... :huh:

[Miruvor]

Who should be Arwen ?

Glorfindel! - would serve her right!
. . . but seriously:
From Tolkien's small description, I always thought of Arwen as young-Liz-Taylor-dark-haired beautiful. So today, the only ones I think of in that category are, Catherine Zeta-Jones (looks great in the "Chicago" preview) Selma Hyak (voice wrong) and Sophie Marceau (She looks kind of elvish, but also may have too much accent)
Katie Holmes is beautiful in that way, but also maybe too young.
Natalie is too young.
Milla looks good, but acting wise?
That lady who used to be in Law and Order, but now is in Revlon comercials is pretty enough, but voice may be too raspy.

Personnally, I've gotten used to Liv now, and wouldn't like to see anyone else. She looks mature, and brave and sturdy on a horse, and she has a soft voice. On the video, I love to pause the tape at the scene of her first getting off the horse with the light behind her, walking towards Frodo, just for the beauty of the still shots. (and I'm not even gay).:naughty:

Edit: One more thing. Maybe it is possible, that Liv was the best and prettiest that they could get for the part, at the rate they were paying, and who would be willing to give up her home and personal life for two years in a distant land.
:elfqueen:

[Catz]

oh come on guys....Dominic Monagahan plays a 4 ft tall hobbit and hes 5.7!! if they can manage that im sure making Natalie Portman look taller wouldnt be too much of a stretch lol sorry.....couldnt resist......
and i dont think she looks any younger than Liv....in fact i think she has a nicely ageless look
oh and i have to take exception to "sturdy on a horse" Miruvor...sorry....but you can tell straight away if its Liv or her double....and most of her riding close ups werent done on a horse anyway....cos shes scared of horses and cant ride.....
:catz:

[Pil]

HA HA! roflmao lol roflmao

Oh and :catz:.......the puns........ :nono:

[Miruvor]

Well, I know she was on a mechanical horse on the close ups - and you couldn't see her or the double anyway, from the back or far away. I just meant she looks 'husky' and not too fragile.
pfbbt

P.S. I loved Natalie in 'Beautiful Girls'.

[Finrod Felagund]

in defense of Milla...
They've had to dump some of Arwen's more physical scenes b/c Liv couldn't pull it off. Have you seen the Messenger?

[Miruvor]

Yes - Her best movie. :angel:
Doesn't she have an accent, too?

[dndwildelf]

i personally think that liv was a terrible choice for arwen. i think that there are better actresses then her out there who could have played arwen. i think the angelina jolie would have been a good choice. but that is me. i don't knock anyone who likes liv so please, no one take it that way. thanks for letting me voice my opinion. bye bye!!

Dndwildelf

:archer:

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

Angelina? very beautiful but not in an elvish way, graceful too but seems too...I dunno, like she's from the wrong side of the tracks or something to play an elf.
I live the idea of Sophie Marceau though, she's my deffinate second after Liv.
what about Kate Beckinsale or Lena Headey or Laura Fraser?
Is it true that Liv can't ride? I'm pretty sure she can.

[Akiba]

ok have to say I don't agree with the angelina jolie thing don't like how she acts in Tomb Raider liked the movie though I trhink Catherine Zeta Jones would've been good ummm yeah braindead can't think anymore rann outof people I cannot remembr any at this point

[Catz]

Liv "rode" if you can call it that...one very old and VERY quiet horse for a couple of long shots at a gentle canter(i think he was about 21 lol )...other than that shes scared of horses....all her close ups when riding were done mechanically, and all but a couple of the long shots were of her riding double...they tried to get her riding, but apparantly the shots looked awful as she looked so awkward....bit like her fighting sequences :naughty: lol
and there was that story of her stabbing herself in the leg whilst waving that sword around lol lol....it was probably only a rumour....but a believeble one nontheless lol roflmao lol
:catz:

[Akiba]

she wouldroflmao roflmao roflmao

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

what do you mean she looked akward in her fight scenes? you must be reffering to the whole none that she was in!

[Catz]

there were test scenes shot of her weilding a sword...i dont know if they were "fight" scenes as such....but it was decided not to go with them as she didnt look "right"
:catz:

[Pil]

Woohoo! Thanx liv for not being able to weild a sword! :) :) :)

[Bonos-Girl]

yes..thanks a lot...we won't see as much of you as we would otherwise!!!!

[Elf angel]

Originally posted by Catz
Liv "rode" if you can call it that...one very old and VERY quiet horse for a couple of long shots at a gentle canter(i think he was about 21 lol )...other than that shes scared of horses....all her close ups when riding were done mechanically, and all but a couple of the long shots were of her riding double...they tried to get her riding, but apparantly the shots looked awful as she looked so awkward....bit like her fighting sequences :naughty: lol
and there was that story of her stabbing herself in the leg whilst waving that sword around lol lol....it was probably only a rumour....but a believeble one nontheless lol roflmao lol
:catz:

lol lol lol lol lol roflmao roflmao roflmao

[Finrod Felagund]

Jennifer Connelly, just saw Beautiful Mind...
hottie,good actress, don't know about the physical stuff
http://members.iinet.net.au/~almeath/jc/index.html

[Pil]

Gwyneth Paltrow...she is soooooo cool! I just saw Shakespeare in Love....and not only have i FALLEN in love with a few members of the gorg cast......ben affleck.....:loveyou:....but i also have a renewed respect for her. She would be soooo great for arwen. :)

[Miruvor]

I personally think Jennifer is as plain as Liv, and I wouldn't recognise her on the street if I saw her. And Gynneth looks too much like Cate Blanchet. She could have been Galadriel tho. Did you see her cameo in Austin Powers III ! A 1000% improvement over her look at the Oscars.

(P.S. I must mention, although this is last year's cool, I did see Leo DiCaprio on the street one time when he was visiting our city with friends for location filming. He's tall!.)

[Finrod Felagund]

Goddess no, but plain???

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

I see your plain and will raise you a mind numbingly ugly!!!
MY FREAKIN' GOD!!!! I want to throw up every time I see her, I mean...god!...uuuuuhhg! UNIBROW!!!!

[Catz]

down children....i dont think Jennifer Connelly is bad looking.....the eyebrow thing is pretty minor as things go lol lol
actually theres a young NZ actress who would i think, have been marvelous.......unfortunately i dont have a web host so i cant show you a pic but her name is Miriama Smith....and shes gorgeous...and in fact resembles Liv a little...tho much less soft and fluffy looking....this is a good thing lol lol
:catz:

[TheRingBearer]

Connelly aint that bad but I don't think she'd have been an improvement from Liv Tyler.

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

Megan Gale.

[LeoWyatt]

Not too sure who myself, erm my list would be

Monica Bellucci - brunette, nice looking, not bad actor, though accent could be a problem.

Anna Paquin - was good in X-men, could play an elf, though might be a little on the short side.

Emmanuelle Beart - could possibly look the part, seemed ok in MI

more will appear with thought

[Bonos-Girl]

I'm not sure but i think cate would have been great.....not sure how she'd look with dark hair though.

[Finrod Felagund]

She's got dark hair in a movie with Ben Afflek, Bounce, I think

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

Anna Paquin?
she's a good actress, but Arwen is supposed to be beautiful remember? not only that but she's supposed to be the MOST beautiful.

[LeoWyatt]

Heh, i was just running names off the top of my head. If you want beautiful, do they have to act? :) heh, if they do, then we ain't got alot of choice, i agree that Famke is a cracking choice for Arwen.

Hmm if we branch into the music industry, either Caroline or Sharon Corr have a Gaelic beauty, which could be good, but hoom-hoom :)

[Pil]

The corrs...sharon is the prettiest...or caroline...don't know why all the men swoon over andrea... :huh:...I suppose they could have had a shot...any acting experience though? :p

[Bonos-Girl]

my dad prefers andrea....but i think he'd settle for any of them!!!
i think one of the corrs would be good...erm...except i don't think we should include jim in that!!!

[Herenyë]

i think the cast was great so yea i dont think liv was bad at all i think she did a good job......

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yeah but you havent read the book, have you? ;)


.... so you wouldnt have anything with which ot compare it :grin:

[Adunauriel]

You know I think Liv Tyler would have been the perfect Arwen. If they hadn't combined her part with Glorfindels. Cause then she wouldn't have spoken and only been in one or two scenes........:thumbs: lol Ok, well except for that part they added between her a Aragorn....;)

[Arwen Undomiel]

natalie portman's stature would have been too slight for viggo's. to be honest, i've racked my brains and i still think liv tyler was the perfect choice for arwen. she IS beautfiul; however, it is an altogether unusual and uncommon beauty. she's as peter jackson describes her: ethereal, and that's how she has to look - all other-worldly. and considering her height and build, i think she's the perfect arwen to viggo's aragorn.

sorry if this annoys anyone - just expressing my personal opinion! :)

[Bena]

Originally posted by Adunauriel
You know I think Liv Tyler would have been the perfect Arwen. If they hadn't combined her part with Glorfindels. Cause then she wouldn't have spoken and only been in one or two scenes........:thumbs: lol Ok, well except for that part they added between her a Aragorn....;)

I think Liv was a good choice. I've enjoyed the parts they've added between her and Aragorn, especially all the Elvish that they speak to each other, but I must agree with you, Adun, I wanted to see Glorfindel in there. It means that there could've been another elf we could go goo-goo over other than Legolas. Not that I don't like Legolas, I love him, it's just that it doesn't seem like there's enough of him to go around with almost everyone in this forum in love with him.;)

[Arwen Undomiel]

not me! i mean i like leggie, of course, but i am a true devotee of aragorn!:blush:

[Bena]

That's why I said "almost" just to cover all the Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, Frodo, etc. lovers. :) The more of those lovers the merrier-it means more Legolas for me! ;)

[Arwen Undomiel]

hee hee! i never thought of that way! what a wonderful observation!!! queluma bena!!!! :)

[aretin]

I agree Liv is really bad as Arwen. It looked like she never kissed anyone before. She sure as her father's lips and over bite. I thought she suck poor Viggo right up .

[Arwen Undomiel]

i'm sure he didn't complain too much - he sure did look as though he enjoyed it! liv said in an interview that she actually never felt his lips when she kissed him 'cos he had so much stubble.

[Bonos-Girl]

hee hee.....i think we can probably safely say that he enjoyed it...i don't think many men wouldn't!!

[aretin]

what I ment was that as an elf the acting on her part was so bad,and if you cann't get a simple kiss right then go back to school. I'm sure Vigg enjoyed if very much,what man would not!

[Arwen Undomiel]

errrm how was she supposed to have to kissed him? *scratches head in bewilderment*

[lourdelia]

whoeva said jessica alba was right on the mark, she could have played it pretty good, or perhaps winona ryder or alyssa milano.
liv still did a pretty good job

[Arwen Undomiel]

yeh jessica alba's gorgeous. andrea corr would be ideal too. not at all keen on alyssa milano or winona ryder; despite the latter having elfin features, she just isn't tall enough or have enough on-screen radiance to befit the role of arwen.

[Herenyë]

Jessice Alba? She went to a school next to my place and i think i met her wait i did but my friends knows her lol.....but she doesnt live there well she does but not all the time you know what i mean? She travels all the time lol....Arwen, your inbox is full again!!!! lol.....Alyssa Milano shouldnt be it cuz she doesnt look really like an elf also Winona Ryder.....

[Arwen Undomiel]

ooh putri i had no idea! i didn't even get a usual message to say my inbox was full. will empty it now chuck!

[Herenyë]

lol heehee cuz i wanted to reply to your pm but i coulndt cuz it said that its fulll lol remember empty out you sent folder and your inbox folder......lol

[Arwen Undomiel]

i've done so now! i sent you a pm just before i emptied my folder! :)

[Herenyë]

heehee................;)

*im hyper*

[Nyphistra Silvertree]

I think Liv did an okay job - at least no one springs to mind who I think would be enormously better. (I have to say - her riding double, while not nearly 'pretty' enough to be Arwen, looks very elf-like and cool in the pictures I've seen...but I digress)

However, when I watch the cast interviews & such that are on the extended DVD, all I can say is Liv's lucky she's so pretty, because she sure wasn't at the front of the line when they were passing out the smarts.....:elfeek:

[Arwen Undomiel]

ouch!!!! miaowwwwww! :catz:

[Herenyë]

lol hahaha.......well i think Julia Roberts could be her, after i saw that wallpaper thingy that Arwen sent me.....Julia isnt that bad to be Arwen.....but then i dont know Julia doesnt seem mysterious enough *shrugs* confused lol ;)

[Arwen Undomiel]

that wallpaper sure made julia look like a suitable arwen! she looked gorgeous in that image. however, i think liv has a more 'elf-like' quality to her, and julia doesn't always look that good!

[Herenyë]

Thats what i mean.....she isnt mysterious enough to be Arwen.....Liv looks mysterious and plus she has a nice voice that sounds so elf like......but i heard she makes it like that......;)

[Arwen Undomiel]

yeh, her real voice is much higher and... well normal! you can hear her speaking on the extended fotr documentaries. it's a bit too breathy for me in the lotr films, but otherwise, i think liv does an ace job. although i still don't think that justifies her having top billing ABOVE viggo!!!

[Shieldmaide of Rohan]

Yeah, I think thats my main problem with Livs portrayal of Arwen- its been shoved down our bloody throats!
I mean shes in the movie for what 10minutes and shes billed 3rd? Also check out the inlay cards of the soundtrack, theres 3 pictures of her and only one of Aragorn- whats up with that?

But I think she was an 'adequate ' Arwen (just try not to think of her horrible, horrible overacting in Armageddon), wouldnt have been my choice, but if she gets the mainstream fans introduced to the wonderful world of Tolkein, how can that be a bad thing?

[Arwen Undomiel]

it's solely 'cos of her hollywood status that she's featured in so much of the promotional media and that she gets top billing. but, of course, if her name and face gets ppl noticing and seeing the film, then it's worth it.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Shieldmaide of Rohan
Yeah, I think thats my main problem with Livs portrayal of Arwen- its been shoved down our bloody throats!
I mean shes in the movie for what 10minutes and shes billed 3rd? Also check out the inlay cards of the soundtrack, theres 3 pictures of her and only one of Aragorn- whats up with that? ooooooh i know, that makes me furious verymad

[Shieldmaide of Rohan]

Hell- why not just change the name of the trilogy to 'Arwen'!

[Herenyë]

So far from where i am in the book....Arwen isnt really a big character as other people think if you know what i mean.....like Aragorn is actually the main character but like well okay its hard to explain so never mind :blush:

[Arwen Undomiel]

she barely registers as a character at all in the book! her only significance is in rotk and the appendices, but pj has obviously used what little material there is available to beef up her role, attach liv tyler's name to her and bob's your uncle!

[Lasgalen]

Originally posted by aretin
I agree Liv is really bad as Arwen. It looked like she never kissed anyone before. She sure as her father's lips and over bite. I thought she suck poor Viggo right up . roflmao . I thought she was supposed to kiss him, not extend her proboscis.

A better Arwen. Some choices: Claudia Schiffer or Hunter Tylo. Maybe Jennifer Love Hewitt.

-Lasgalen

[Arwen Undomiel]

claudia schiffer?!! now you ARE taking the ****!!! :elfeek: lol lol

[Lasgalen]

??? I don't understand your post, Arwen. What is "taking the ****"

Claudia is WAY prettier than Liv and they can change her hair color like they did Orlando's.

-Lasgalen

[Arwen Undomiel]

taking the p i s s, lasgalen!!! i've never thought claudia shiffer was pretty, and certainly not befitting the role of arwen - anyway, she'd look awful with dark hair! lol lol ;)

[Lasgalen]

Claudia is sooo much prettier than Liv. I would pay to kiss Claudia but you would have to pay me (and lots) to kiss Liv.

-Lasgalen

[Arwen Undomiel]

well, each to their own, of course!!!

[Gatsby]

i think it might have been cute to have audrey toutou (butchered the last name) from amelie to play arwen... that would've been great
out
gatz

[Arwen Undomiel]

yeah, she's very sweet and pretty.

[Gatsby]

and not spiteful like liv tyler lol
out
gatz

[Arwen Undomiel]

spiteful? how so?

[Gatsby]

cuz she took the part just to spite me... she may not know it, but deep in her heart she knows its true lol

out
gatz

[Lasgalen]

lol Gatz. I think you may be right. lol

-Lasgalen

[Arwen Undomiel]

aww, poor gatz! i'm sure she didn't mean it... lol lol

[Gatsby]

oh she meant it... i'm carefully planning my revenge...
out
gatz

[Araréiel]

I think Liv was the right choice myself. Portman is beautiful, but it's hard to see her as anyone other than Amidala. Plus her features are alittle stronger than Liv's softer ones.

[Arwen Undomiel]

yes, she looks less 'ethereal' and elven than liv, but she's stunning all the same.

[Lasgalen]

Liv looks ok except when she is trying to kiss Aragorn. I have to look away at that part.

[Arwen Undomiel]

awwww, are you sure you're not just jealous??? lol lol ;)

[Catz]

for me tho......thats why Liv doesnt work...........her features arent strong enough........Elves are meant to be beautiful and powerful..........no one ever said anything about them, the most powerful beings in ME, looking "fluffy"..........i think of them as tigers.........beautiful, but with the potential for danger............Liv looks like a persian.......she just doesnt have that sense of restrained power
:catz:

[Númenórean]

Since Arwen should look as the most prettiest girl in the world (except for Lúthien) it's kinda impossible to find someone to play here. Liv was okay as Arwen, since it's the character is very hard to reprisent, she did it quite well. She just critisized that much becouse of what happened to her role and some fans blamed her for that. But I think Liv did a good job.

[Lasgalen]

Originally posted by Arwen Undomiel
awwww, are you sure you're not just jealous??? lol lol ;) Jealous of what? An upper lip that looks like a turtle beak? No I am not jealous. Besides, I have no interest in Aragorn.

[Kenzie]

her voice creeps me out lol ... (luckily she didn't use her regular voice in the movie) i'm sure there is a better person to portray arwen out there... but i can't think of the right one so despite some of her scnens (the one where she finds frodo after the fight with the nazguls on whethertop and is glowing and stuff lol) i though she did pretty good

[Amithrellas]

Originally posted by Catz
for me tho......thats why Liv doesnt work........Elves are meant to be beautiful and powerful......i think of them as tigers.........beautiful, but with the potential for danger............Liv looks like a persian.......she just doesnt have that sense of restrained power
:catz:

Maybe that's why PJ had her running about w/ sword. I agree, that didn't work. It'd be like dressing my tubby tabby in armor lol

But, but, but I really do think Liv has that kind of ethereal beauty (and sadness?) that's essential to Arwen. I can't think of another actress with that

[Arwen Undomiel]

me neither. as much as i've tried to come up with some other 'suitable' actresses, i just can't! i think peter made an excellent choice with liv and, as he has previously said, he'd had her in mind for the part ever since the beginning. ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ok I didn't like liv but I am supremely thankful they never went with the 'warrior princess' thing they'd started out with. THAT would have been _terrible_.

And, I mean, ok, so they had to cast liv, but did they have to make her part so large? I think she wouldv'e done just fine sticking to book Arwen- still showing off her etheral beauty that I agree she does have.

that said, it *was* a little odd in the books when out of nowhere at the end aragorn was like 'oh I think I'll marry that chick no one remembers from the first book' lol

[Arwen Undomiel]

good point, tar - many ppl probably forgot who she was by the third book cos she barely gets a mention in the first and second!!! lol lol

[Mánaskin]

i think Liv is fine Arwen but i think Milla Jovovich would be ok too

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Finrond Falagund why you hate Liv Tyler?! verymad She's a very good actress and she plays :boohoo: Arwen very well. I can't imagine other actress acting Arwen. She's the best! She's my favourite! :elfqueen:

[Lasgalen]

Maybe Rene Zellweger could play the part. Her lips are too full but there is an Elfy look to her eyes.

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Renee Zelweger? Noway!

[Finrod Felagund]

Why do I hate Liv as Arwen, I am suspicious about her influence on the development of the character. Was Arwen built up and then Lev chosen or was Liv chosen and she pouted until she ousted Glorfindel and usurped Frodo's Stand at The Ford? and I just don't think she is pretty enough. She's attractive but not the image of Luthien reborn(the most beautiful of Eru's Children)
I imagined Arwen to be devestating, not just pretty but get-down-on-your-knees-and-worship beautiful.

[Lasgalen]

I agree with you, Finrod, however, PJ only had human actresses to choose from. The only human I have seen that is get-down-on-your-knees-and-worship beautiful is Jacklyn Smith. And she is too old now to play the part.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well you have a great point, las, but still... he defo could've looked harder than he did if he settled for liv...

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Finrod You shouldn't blame Liv Tyler because of her character. The scenario was written not by her. I think she's pretty but tastes differ. :p

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well that's what he was saying... do we blame liv for the character because the part was written for liv? or should we not blame her because liv was gotten for the part? I'm more inclined to the first choice.

stupid liv pfbbt

[Lasgalen]

Originally posted by Luthien Anwamanë
The scenario was written not by her. She may not have written the scenario, but she could demand a rewrite. If she threw a big enough fit for more lines, then she influenced the script even though she didn't write anything.

[Amithrellas]

Originally posted by Mánaskin
i think Liv is fine Arwen but i think Milla Jovovich would be ok too
Excellent alternative! :thumbs: tho' I don't know if Milla would work well as a brunette.
Ummmm...just a thought...how about Claudia Black (Aeryn Sun on SciFi's defunct Farscape)? I think she fills Catz's bill for a stronger elf-maiden. Or is she too strong? Tilda Swinton?

[Luthien Anwamanë]

I don't agree with you. Liv is perfect as Arwen and it doesn't metter what her role was!!!!!

[Finrod Felagund]

I will commence to pot stirring:

Milla! Milla! Milla!

She would have pulled the physical stuff like horseback riding and sword play better (see: The Messenger) and then we would argue about her being at Helm's Deep b/c she wouldn't have floundered like Liv was reported to have causing that part to be cut...
Milla as a brunett... I have seen Cate Blanchett as a brunett and she seemed prettier, same with Gwyneth Paltrow...
i think I've said some of this before...

[Abendstern]

Milla Jovovich maybe has the looks, but she was sooooo bad in Resident Evil, I just couldn't look at the screen. Even the Zombies acted better than her.
I still think, liv tyler is the best choice for arwen!:thumbs:
Who mentioned Claudia Schiffer?!?:o She's dull! And have you ever hear her talk? Argh!!!

[Ereinion]

I think Natalie Portman would have been a great Arwen....And,unlike Liv Tyler,she can act.....

[Friend of Maglor]

I'm limited in my knowledge of actors, but all i knew was that when Arwen was entering, I was like "ooh bright light. it.... its... its... oh, it just Liv Tyler"

[Lasgalen]

I have seen a Photo Edit were Natalie is dressed up as Arwen. She looked pretty good.

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

Ok, I think Liv is perfect for the role, shes beautiful, young I cant exactly say talented, but she did her best in Lotr, and wasnt too bad at it. But I think if they didnt have Liv to play it, I think Elizabeth Hurley would be a good one, (with all all her blue makeup and everything.) She just sorta looks like the Arwen you see in all of the old Arwen paintings you see.

[Ereinion]

Carrie Ann Moss from the Matrix would have done a great job too....

[Finrod Felagund]

With all the Slash fanfic going on you would think more people would want Glorfindel to not only take his rightful place as Frodo's savior but also Arwen's part as the love interest
:o :o :o

[Ereinion]

Whos love interest, I wonder....Only Aragorn's or are Legolas and Gimli also in the picture? roflmao
Anyway, I think Robin Wright Penn would have also made a great Arwen....She has this Elfish air around her.....

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

I think Liv Tyler is a horrid actress, if you can even call her an actress? I think they definately could have found someone beautiful and talented to play Arwen, all Liv has is her looks, have you ever seen any of her other movies she acts like she's retarded in all of them, she can not act at all. you can tell she really really tried to do a good job in LOTR but she couldn't pull it off, I think the only reason she wasn't fired is because she had such little screen time that it doesn't matter that much. It's amazing when you see the scenes with Miranda Otto and Cate Blanchette and they both give amazingly beauiful performances then you see Livs performance and it's just so pathetic. When I think of Arwen I think of someone who is strong and independant, someone who is a lot like her grandmother Galadriel, a very wise and strong person and Livs Arwen is like a 13 year old crying to her daddy because he won't let her see her boyfriend or something. The only thing Liv can do is either cry a lot or sit there with her mouth hanging open, thats why Livs career is so pathetic, she was very lucky to be cast in LOTR I'm sure its the highlight of her career.

[Abendstern]

@ ArwenEvenstar5540
Ok, now I'm really confused. A couple of weeks ago, you said Liv's "perfect for the role" and "not too bad" and now she's horrid? what happened? :huh:

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

Originally posted by Abendstern
@ ArwenEvenstar5540
Ok, now I'm really confused. A couple of weeks ago, you said Liv's "perfect for the role" and "not too bad" and now she's horrid? what happened? :huh:


well I didn't really notice at first how bad she was, then I saw her in other movies Inventing the Abbots and some others, and I couldn't believe how terrible her acting was in those films, I mean she acting like she was stoned or retarded. And then I read about Tolkien's Arwen and Liv couldn't even come close to it. Its not about how the beefed her role up its about the way she is and her personality, she seemed very old and wise and livs Arwen seemed like she had been hit in the head a few times, and absolutely no wisdom to her whatsoever. She is suppose to be related to Luthien, the grand daughter of Galadriel? Liv tried her best but she cannot act, I don't know who told her she could but they lied to her. If you want to see how bad of an actor she is see Inventing the Abbots or anyother Liv tyler movie. Thank God we have Miranda Otto and Cate Blanchette in the movies to give a moving performance (two actresses who can act)
Indeed they could have found a gorgeous young British unknown actress to play Arwen and it would have been beautiful.

[Ereinion]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar5540
Indeed they could have found a gorgeous young British unknown actress to play Arwen and it would have been beautiful.

Or they could have used Natalie Portman or Carrie Ann Moss :thumbs:

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

Carrie Anne Moss isn't pretty enough for Arwen, Natalie Portman would have been a great choice! maybe a little too young, I've never seen any of her movies but I heard the acting in Star Wars 2 was terrible, I don't know if that pertains to her performance or not. Keira Knightley would have been great, the problem is she was 16 when they started filming, but she's much more beautiful then Liv and she's very talented:ring:

[Ereinion]

Keira is talented,yes,but there is no way she could be passed as an Elf maiden.....Liv Tyler looks exactly as Luthien's descendant should look (until she opens her mouth and tries to act)....Keira looks like a girl-next-door, and not even a pretty one.....

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

Originally posted by Ereinion
Keira looks like a girl-next-door, and not even a pretty one.....


Have you ever seen Keira? She is gorgeous! Eveb more beautiful then Liv. Liv does look the part but she definately can't act the part, but Keira is definately beautiful and talented enough. Just too young:ring:

[Lasgalen]

Keira is very pretty, but she doesn't look very Elfy. I still think Renee Zellweger has an Elfy quality in spite of whoever it was before that made fun of her. Just deflate her lips a little and she would be the perfect Arwen.

[Ereinion]

Originally posted by ArwenEvenstar5540
Have you ever seen Keira? She is gorgeous! Eveb more beautiful then Liv. Liv does look the part but she definately can't act the part, but Keira is definately beautiful and talented enough. Just too young:ring:

I have seen Keira, in both POTC and Bend It Like Beckham, and I don't think she could pass for an Elf, even in a very very dark room....With no offence to Miss Knightly, ofcourse....She's a good actor, but she's no Luthien's descendant....

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Nobody but Liv Tyler *furious*

[Abendstern]

You're absolutely right, Luthien!:thumbs:

keira knightley as arwen? she's beautiful and all that (i really like her in bend it like beckham and pirates of the caribbean), but i think she was fifteen or sixteen when filming for lotr started and that's waaaay too young.

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Go Liv go!!!!

[Lady Luthien]

Originally posted by Lasgalen
Keira is very pretty, but she doesn't look very Elfy. I still think Renee Zellweger has an Elfy quality in spite of whoever it was before that made fun of her. Just deflate her lips a little and she would be the perfect Arwen.

haha,I agree, Las! Renee has a very soft, elvish and graceful look! But I still think Liv was phenomenal and perfect as Arwen.

and about Kiera, she is gorgeous...but her face doesnt seem elvish to me...her eyes are too dark...and she doesnt have that natural glow about her like Liv does...and her voice is too harsh and squeaky or something!

[Abendstern]

renee zellwegger has really something elfy and she's a gorgeous and brave (bridget jones!) actress, but there's something that irritates me...on public events such as the oscars she always looks like she has already eaten something EXTREMELY sour...strange...;)

[Lady Luthien]

I know what u mean, Abendstern...her eyes are always squinted and her lips perced!! But sometimes she looks pretty...

[Abendstern]

yeah she does. Especially when she's a little bit rounded as in Bridget Jones. That was the first movie with her i've seen so far and she was pretty and then i saw her in real real life... was a little bit weird.

[Alatariel]

Jennifer Connelly had the sadness and beauty I had pictured in the Arwen character. Pity Liv got the part.

[ImDaMom]

I fear Jennifer Connelly is too 'earthy' for the role. She doesn't have quite the ethereal beauty Liv has. No, I'm not a big Liv Tyler fan, but I thought she did a wonderful job with a very tough role. Arwen is a character unlike anyone else- how do you play an immortal woman who is several thousand years old, yet young? I don't think it's a "pity" that Liv got the role. What I do think is a shame is that after 3 amazing films, tons of accolades, and gazillions of dollars, people are STILL second guessing PJ's choice of Liv. (sorry. I'll get down from my soapbox now :blush: )

[Abendstern]

sorry. I'll get down from my soapbox now :blush:
lol stay there, IDM! couldn't have said it better :thumbs:

[Melian]

Great minds think alike, huh IDM. lol I agree, I think that her character has grown a lot in the second and third movie. By RotK, I thought she did a wonderful job of bringing Arwen to life. As much as I love Tolkien, the character of Arwen is one that he should have expanded on. The scene with Elrond where she tells him that ".....there is no ship that can carry me hence." is one of my favorites.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I'm a little late on this, but I was reading a few pages of this topic and I was like *explosion*, so I just have to be interfering and irritating, I really can't help it.
OK. Bob Anderson (THE sword guy. I mean, the TOTAL butt-kicking guy)said that Liv did some the best fight scenes he'd ever seen. HE sure seemed to think she was good, and I think he knows a little more about it than the rest of us. Ahem. :grin:
Let's see...Renee Zellweger as Arwen? She's not dark enough (physically) for one...although I can see her as an elf, yes. ;)
Keira? Pretty enough, but she's certainly not ethereal. Even if she was older, I don't think I'd take her for an elf. ;) :grin:

[Abendstern]

I'm a little late on this, but I was reading a few pages of this topic and I was like *explosion*, so I just have to be interfering and irritating, I really can't help it.
lol I know what you mean... a while ago, when I first had read the posts I felt the same... I sat there and didn't even know what to write first... and some of the suggestions were strange... Claudia Schiffer! wtf? :o lol

[Lady Galadriel]

lol And I think it is important to have a look of "innocence" too or "purity," if you will.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Exactly! She needs more than just beauty...(sorry. I'll get down from my soapbox now )
*picks up IDM and puts her back on her soapbox* You stay there, you! lol ;) :thumbs:
I know what you mean... a while ago, when I first had read the posts I felt the same... I sat there and didn't even know what to write first... and some of the suggestions were strange... Claudia Schiffer! wtf?
I know...I had such a hard time thinking of what to write I would have given up if I didn't have smoke coming out of my ears...verymad It's the comments that don't have justified reasoning that get me...and the little nitpicky rude ones..."she has an overbite!".

[Abendstern]

and the little nitpicky rude ones..."she has an overbite!".
*shudders* yeah, that's so unnecessary... *thinks of own overbite*
I can fully understand when people say, that Liv Tyler isn't their "type" - that's a matter of taste... but when they rant about her being "ugly" and more it's beyond my understanding... it really needs a lot for me to call someone "ugly", cause I think everyone has a certain beauty if you look closely... and "ugly" is a much too hard word...

[Lady Galadriel]

I can fully understand when people say, that Liv Tyler isn't their "type" - that's a matter of taste... but when they rant about her being "ugly" and more it's beyond my understanding... it really needs a lot for me to call someone "ugly", cause I think everyone has a certain beauty if you look closely... and "ugly" is a much too hard word...

True. Beauty is subjective. You know, one of the temps that use to work here always use to say that Liv is a miracle considering the way her father looks. He was so enthralled by her beauty that he actually went to watch ROTK with me and the first thing he complained about was her limited scenes. :grin:

Also, it is so unkind to call people ugly. There is a saying that no one made himself or herself so people should not label anyone as ugly.

[ImDaMom]

I often wonder about the human gene pool when someone as, shall we say, unique looking as Steven Tyler can produce someone who is as pretty as Liv. Obviously she takes after her mom! (my daughter is a HUGE Aerosmith fan, and thinks ST is a really good looking guy. I wonder at my daughter's taste in men lol )

[Lady Galadriel]

lol I wonder too. But she probably just thinks he is cool.

[Catz]

OK. Bob Anderson (THE sword guy. I mean, the TOTAL butt-kicking guy)said that Liv did some the best fight scenes he'd ever seen. HE sure seemed to think she was good, and I think he knows a little more about it than the rest of us. Ahem.
Let's see...Renee Zellweger as Arwen? She's not dark enough (physically) for one...although I can see her as an elf, yes.
Keira? Pretty enough, but she's certainly not ethereal. Even if she was older, I don't think I'd take her for an elf.

well to me LIV doesnt look like an elf........................i stand by what ive always said..............the elves were supposed to be beautiful but also dangerous...............and she just looks too darn fluffy............thats my opinion........i would have preferred someone with a stronger look and a little more to offer than a pretty face and lips ;)
frankly i dont think that Liv is that good an actress...that IS ofc just my opinion, but id have preferred someone like Hilary Swank...............shes one HELL of an actress and i think would have pulled it off wonderfully
that said, Liv was cast.............i dont have any major objections to her performance.............its just a pity that thats ALL i can say about her
and i dont believe i ever read that comment from Bob Anderson, tho im not saying he didnt say it.....i AM saying that i wouldnt want to be the stuntie that had to work oppsite her with a sword....sorry but i wouldnt ;) lol
and jennifer connelly is a good actress and i think shed have pulled it off fine, but ofc well never know
:catz:

[Lady Galadriel]

I guess that just goes to show that tastes differ because I really dont find Hilary Swank that attractive....but Jennifer Connelly looks very attractive. :grin:

With regards to the sword fight bit, I am so glad that they did not have the character fighting. It is revolting, in a way, to think about that. In the Laws and Customs of the Eldar it is said that elf women only fight when there is a need and in that they are just as capable as the elf men as long as they had not borne any children as yet.

Another thing, I dont know about the rest of you, but I surely missed the "pretty part" of the character. I was more drawn to the story of the serious implication of the union of elf & man. Especially since it is said that it only should be done for a "higher purpose," which it was. That said, I was more taken by the feelings of the character rather that the physical attributes and she sure convinced me of the profound sadness involved in the choice. But then, what works for me might not work for another. :grin:

[ImDaMom]

And, when all is said and done, this thread is the perfect example of "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I find Steven Tyler repulsive, yet others find him appealing. Some like Liv's looks, others find her nothing special. Who's to say what is beauty? Acting ability is a little more objective, but Arwen had very little to do in the films (I would guess that added together all Arwen scenes total less than 30 minutes) and I thought Liv aquitted herself adequately. Remember, she had to act with such powerhouses as Viggo and Hugo Weaving, so you can't really compare her skill with theirs. I'm not sure about elves looking dangerous- look at Galadriel- the most beautiful, yet most powerful elf in ME. She's never described as dangerous, just lovely.
But if you want to stay within the theme of this thread, who should be Arwen, well, Arwen should be Liv Tyler. BREAKING NEWS ALERT*****The movies are done, they have triumphed, and it's really a moot point to keep harping on whether Liv should have been cast. (sorry- I just find that Monday morning quarterbacking is an exercise in futility)

[Abendstern]

Another thing, I dont know about the rest of you, but I surely missed the "pretty part" of the character. I was more drawn to the story of the serious implication of the union of elf & man. Especially since it is said that it only should be done for a "higher purpose," which it was. That said, I was more taken by the feelings of the character rather that the physical attributes and she sure convinced me of the profound sadness involved in the choice. But then, what works for me might not work for another. :grin:
:thumbs: couldn't agree more! *thinks about putting an "I agree with Lady Galadriel" in her sig* lol

and what IDM said... as always... :grin:
I think how the elves should look like is another matter of opinion... Legolas doesn't really look dangerous either... or Haldir... the only dangerous looking elf there is Elrond, but that has other reasons... lol

[Lady Galadriel]

I agree with ImDaMom. I never got the impression that elves look dangerous. In all my readings I get the impression that elves are fated to be good and only a handful were bad, namely Feanor and Eol and that might be blamed on Melkor during his marring of Arda. But that is another long topic.

I don’t think that Cate Blanchett came off as dangerous. I more saw her as an incredibly beautiful ancient being who has seen and knows a lot. She hardly smiles but so do Elrond and Celeborn. They perfectly portrayed my vision of the Eldar…touched by the sadness and memories of Ages past.

Now the character Arwen, imo, was believable. Her gravity fits well with the story and Liv portrayed it well imo. Last night I was reading the Debate of Finrod and Andreth (a wise mortal woman whose soul mate was Finrod’s brother, an elf) and was instantly reminded of PJ’s spin on Arwen and Aragorn. He was, imo, trying to bring out that story, which by the way, is an extremely moving one. If you guys get the chance, read it. It really shows why there have only been two unions between elf and man in Middle-earth and the differences between the thoughts of elves and the thoughts of men. Then, maybe, you can understand why Arwen and the older elves were portrayed the way they were, with such gravity and sadness. IMO, PJ did a wonderful job with all those characters, including Arwen.

[ImDaMom]

I only disagree with you Lady G on one point...there were 3 unions between elf and men, Luthien and Beren, Arwen and Aragorn and (I'm not really good at names or spelling, and I'm at work without my beloved books,so bear with me, and don't trout me too much if I get the names wrong) Idril and Tuor. But they were all full of sadness and it was never an easy thing to combine the 2 races.
But I do agree that I thought also that Liv did a fine job, and the way PJ, Phillipa and Fran wrote their interpretation of the A&A tale was beautiful!

[Lady Galadriel]

True ImDaMom. How could I forget that beautiful blond man...( a fav of mine). I understand that he became immortal and was able to live until the end of the world with Idril.

[ImDaMom]

And, he's the only one to have been able to have that choice, which is quite interesting. Luthien and Arwen both gave up immortality, yet it was given to Tuor. Why was he so much more worthy than Beren or Aragorn? Did the Valar change their standards?
(and the one thing I missed in FOTR movie was the line in your sig, Lady G- Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it. - Aragorn
I LOVE that line, and always have.)

[Lady Galadriel]

Yes...I love it too...so eloquent.

About the Valar thing, I always wondered about that too. Maybe as Earendil's father the Valar asked Illuvatar to withdraw the doom of man from him.

I assume with Aragorn his destiny was more tied to Middle-earth. He was the only one who could unite the peoples of Middle-earth to defeat Sauron and he was the chosen one to reign in the fourth Age. So, Arwen's fate was tied to M/E to further the descendents of the king. Supposedly Eldarion's descendents reigned for 100 generations of men and their kingdoms were blessed.

I guess Beren and Luthien began it all. Call it foresight or fate...whatever :grin: . Their union was for a higher purpose in the sense of their descendents. What did Legolas say, "The line of Luthien never fails." Earendil procured the pardon of the Valar for the exiles and men. Then came the fathers of Numenor and much later on, Aragorn Elessar. In a way, in the Third Age, the enemies of Sauron were the Numenoreans, and in the First Age, the enemies of Melkor/Morgoth were the men of old and the Eldar. And only in the descendents of Elrond and Elros are the valor of heroic cheiftains of old retained.

[ImDaMom]

I tend to agree with your thoughts on Aragorn...he was meant to be the King in ME, and as such, needed to remain mortal. But I would think that the sacrifices made by both Beren and Luthien during their struggles against Morgoth might earn them peace and honor in Valinor. But then, I'm also a hopeless romantic, and like everyone to be happy. And I didn't get that in the tale of B&L that they lived "happily" ever after. Their story was so filled with sadness and despair, that they seemed to be truly tragic.

[Catz]

actually i never said LOOKING dangerous..........i said WERE dangerous..........and they were......the only think Liv looks like she could do thats dangerous is inhale someone.................JOKE!!!!!!!....and if were sticking with the topic of this thread it should be closed.........since it isnt i assume were still free to discuss the issue ;)
Galadriel frightened Frodo in the book , and Elrond was described as grave and by implication, somewhat foreboding........Liv NEVER gave me that sense of power, or inner fire......and saying that she was acting against greats isnt really an excuse is it?
it just shows up that she really wasnt up to it...........still i DO think she was adequate..........id just have liked to have been able to say better
:catz:

[Abendstern]

the only think Liv looks like
:rolleyes: ah, but you're now again with the looks, catz... :p well, I thought she had a quite convincing dangerous look when she chanted the spell at the Ford... and there's no other moment where she should be dangerous... not in the book nor in the movie...

[Lady Galadriel]

Galadriel frightened Frodo in the book , and Elrond was described as grave and by implication, somewhat foreboding........

Like others have said, Galadriel, Elrond, and Celeborn are very old elves. They have seen and been through a lot from since the First Age. Arwen's gravity should be as nothing compared to theirs. Also, even if Frodo feared Galadriel, that does not mean that everyone fears her. I never got the impression Aragorn feared her.

And, why shouldnt Elrond be grave and foreboding? His beloved daughter made a choice that he had foreseen many years before and the choice was very hard for him to bear. Also, who knows what he thought about losing his brother to mortality as well. It seems to me that Elrond has absolutely nothing to be happy about.

Another thing, it seems to me that the way they wrote the plot for Arwen's story does not include anythingelse but to show her choice of Immortality. In that case, what power or fire do you suppose she should have exuded?

Anyway, I seem to remember that it was alluded to the Arwen had the gift of foresight. In TTT, Aragorn mentioned that she told him before that he would have to go with Frodo on his quest. In ROTK, she saw her son and husband in the future. And she was certainly Aragorn's hope along his journey whether he realized it or not. :grin:

But I would think that the sacrifices made by both Beren and Luthien during their struggles against Morgoth might earn them peace and honor in Valinor. But then, I'm also a hopeless romantic, and like everyone to be happy. And I didn't get that in the tale of B&L that they lived "happily" ever after. Their story was so filled with sadness and despair, that they seemed to be truly tragic.

Really? I always thought that in the beginning things were difficult for them but in the end it was happy. In particular, I thought they ended happy since they faded away together....***sighs*** Another thing, Luthien did not seem too sad to give up her parents or her people at all. Its almost like nooneelse existed for her, but him. Wow! That is devotion. ***sighs again*** Some people say that she was very selfish because she only thought of herself. lol I guess they felt sorry for Melian seeing that she took it hard. But people try to analyze these things very deeply.

[ImDaMom]

We've all analyzed these stories to death, and that's what keeps threads like this one alive! lol As far as Luthien's sadness, I guess that's just the overall memory of the tale I carry with me. (It's almost like Sam and Frodo- you know Sam had a wonderful, fulfilling life with Rosie, being Mayor, and generally being amazingly successful. But I always thought that deep in his heart, he had a 'hole' where Frodo should have been. All his life I'm sure Sam missed Frodo, and that's the main reason he ended up taking the ship west after Rosie's death. And that always left me thinking about the sadness of Frodo and Sam) And it's the same with the elves and their 'foreboding'-ness. We get the impression that JRR wanted us not to fear the elves, but give them the respect due an immortal. I think he wanted us to look beyond 'fairies' and pixie dust, and our preconceived notions of what 'elves' should be like, and give them a little more texture or weight. If he made Frodo 'afraid' of Galadriel, it was in an attempt to make us believe that elves are not the fairy type thing that we've come to know in Grimm's or Mother Goose, but strong, brave and important beings.

[Lady Galadriel]

Yes ***sniffles*** My heart broke for Sam when Frodo left. Yeah, I know I am being morbid but suppose when Sam got to Valinor Frodo had already died. I think Frodo is a lot older than Sam. :(

I am very contrary to everyone. I think that the elves I have read about are incredibly sad. As Finrod says, mortals should not envy them because since they are the guests, at least they get to go beyond the world, whereas they are tied to it. Not to mention the incredible burden of the years and memories. Through his eyes I saw just why elves are so grave. They do not age physically, but their spirits and memories soon consume them and that is how they age. :( I think mortality and immortality have their huge drawbacks and it all culminates in the belief of the Afterlife.

[ImDaMom]

What is to me the sadness of elves, is simply their years (as you said, Lady G, "the incredible burden of the years and memories") and as Galadriel herself said, "Fighting the long defeat". Eru called mortality the "gift" of men, and like anyone given a great gift without understanding, men came to resent the gift. Leading to the downfall of Numenor, and the countless tragedies of men.
But I also like to think that Frodo did live until Sam's arrival. It's too sad to think that Sam left his home and children to be with Frodo, and then wasn't able to. (Somehow, I don't think JRR would have wanted it that way either)
(My this is far from the topic, but so much more interesting :) )

[Lady Galadriel]

ImDaMom, I can tell you love happy endings. lol So do I.

I almost wished that Frodo and Sam could have lived until the end of the world. Oh well. We cant have it all.

Oh, about the gift, that is a beautiful analysis. I think that through the years the elves disliked immortality just as men disliked mortality. Personally, it would drive me nuts to be confined to the same days over and over and over and over........ You get my gist. lol

[ImDaMom]

And could you imagine living with the same bull***t, year after year, seeing people act the same foolish way, fighting the same silly arguments year after year after year? I think mortality truly IS a gift!

[Lady Galadriel]

lol Oh...not even death is an escape since they are forced to atone and be reborn to the same crap all over again. lol

Now I can understand why they do not lust and are not governed by needs of the flesh. :grin:

[Daughter of Kings]

Hmmm...... I don't hate Liv as Arwen, although I agree there could have been a better choice, but I can't really think of any. Famke Jassen might be good, if they steer towards a more subtle beauty, you know what I mean.

If Liv didn't have the history that she has,(being a nude modle or what ever,) Then she would be PERFECT. She's beautifull, gracefull and not to bad of an actress. If only she wasnt so popular in America.
-Daughter of Kings

[Abendstern]

If Liv didn't have the history that she has,(being a nude modle or what ever,)

erm... she showed one breast in a movie she made in 1996... that's it... she never posed nude for a magazine or ever did it in another movie again... and just as a reminder: Miranda Otto had nude scenes as well in one of her movies (in 1996 as well) and no one seems to complain about that... (don't get me wrong, I like Miranda Otto, but it makes me sick like everything that Liv does or has done is criticized and Miranda's just perfect...)
and honestly, Liv's not nude in LOTR... so what's the problem with what she's done before?

[Lady Galadriel]

Wow! I have never heard before that she was nude in anything.

I have never heard anything negative about Liv (excluding LOTR fans). I think most people thinks she is a "sweet" girl. I dont find that she is that popular in America. Besides, popularity comes and goes. It depends on whether the actor is in a movie to be released soon or something like that.

[ImDaMom]

And WHO CARES???? One nude scene, partially or full frontal, what exactly is the problem? She was not nude in LOTR. She wasn't even partially exposed (I don't want to hear about the sheer dress....there was underlay, and you could see absolutly NOTHING). Judge only on these films. As for her being a big US star, I must be missing something coz I only knew her from Armaggedon. And, as far as her using her "clout" to get this role, when did PJ EVER bow to Hollywood pressure? If he did, we'd have had one film, not 3, and they probably would have had Michael J Fox as Frodo, Mel Gibson as Gandalf, and God knows who else! lol

[Lady Galadriel]

lol I must confess that I did not know her before LOTR. After that, I saw some of her other movies quite by accident on either Oxygen or Women's Entertainment. When I saw her in Stealing Beauty my first thought was that she looked so innocent. :grin:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

If Liv didn't have the history that she has,(being a nude modle or what ever,) Then she would be PERFECT. She's beautifull, gracefull and not to bad of an actress. If only she wasnt so popular in America.
Can you please elaborate on why it's bad that she had popularity? How does that affect your opinion of Arwen?
And really, I'd never heard of Liv before LotR. I'd seen Armegeddon, but I never realized that it was the same girl. She really wasn't all that big, if you ask me. And if she can act the part convincingly, so what? I mean, Cate Blanchett is, I'm fairly certain, "bigger" than Liv, and was before LotR, too. And nobody says anything about that! They accept her Galadriel, but not Liv's Arwen. *sigh*
If he did, we'd have had one film, not 3, and they probably would have had Michael J Fox as Frodo, Mel Gibson as Gandalf, and God knows who else!
:elfeek: The very thought! lol

[ImDaMom]

And certainly Sean Astin and Elijah Wood had done more than Liv, and had more popularity. And let's talk nudity. There's several films out there with bare buttocks, flashing chests, and full frontal with :drool: Viggo- and I've seen NOTHING indicating he should not have been cast. Why are we holding Liv to a different standard?
(and can we PLEASE learn spelling- model, not modle, and beautiful and graceful only have 1 L**sorry, the teacher in me coming out lol )
****mmmmm....full frontal Viggo...mmmmmmmm**wanders off drooling****

[Abendstern]

...and not to mention Sean Bean in Lady Chatterly :drool: ahem ... mmmh...any LOTR actor who wasn't nude? lol

(and can we PLEASE learn spelling- model, not modle, and beautiful and graceful only have 1 L**sorry, the teacher in me coming out lol )
lol lol lol lol :grin:

[ImDaMom]

...and not to mention Sean Bean in Lady Chatterly :drool: ahem ... mmmh...any LOTR actor who wasn't nude?

Well, I don't know about you, but I WILL try to avoid John Rhys Davies nude roflmao Sorry, JRD, you just aren't my type! lol

[Abendstern]

lol lol lol alright, I have to agree there with you... I like JRD, but not ... that... way... lol :grin:
hehe, a friend send me pics of Sean Bean in Lady Chatterly as a birthday present... niiiiiiiice... behind :grin:
that's getting a little bit off topic now, doesn't it? lol

[Lalaith of Rohan]

And certainly Sean Astin and Elijah Wood had done more than Liv, and had more popularity. And let's talk nudity. There's several films out there with bare buttocks, flashing chests, and full frontal with Viggo- and I've seen NOTHING indicating he should not have been cast. Why are we holding Liv to a different standard?
Exactly! Even Orlando had his bum-flashing bit ( :drool: ).
(and can we PLEASE learn spelling- model, not modle, and beautiful and graceful only have 1 L**sorry, the teacher in me coming out )
I was SO tempted to point that out, but I think it sounds better coming from you than me. :blush: No offense there, DoK. ;) :rose:

Let's see...if I combine my mental images of Orlando in Midsummer (was is really spelled that way or did they put in that funky "somer" thing? :huh: ) Murders (bum and thighs) with Paris in "Troy" (dangerously low shots of torso :naughty: ) I almost have a full bare Orlando! Not bad, really. It's unfortunate that none of his upcoming movies sound like we'll have chances for a "full frontal".lol

[ImDaMom]

Of course no offense on the spelling meant- it's just that bad spelling is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. Just sort of gets to me.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

That and apostrophes. *shudders* ;) *fingernails on chalkboard noise* AAH! :blush: lol ;)