North Korea

[Eorl the Young]

I hate to bring this topic up in these dark days, but this subject has been bothering me since my geography teacher brought it up a few days ago: North Korea is more of a threat to the world then Iraq (I don't know if there are any North Koreans on this board. If so, could you shed some light on this matter) since they are quite fanatic. And that's what might start WW3. Since they are starting up there nucliar program and all. They might want to try to conquer South Korea, if they are growing powerful again and that would be a tragic: not only to the south koreans, but also to the rest of the world since the South korean economy is quite important and of course to the US, who has a treaty with south korea, that they will protect it, when south korea is attacked. And then North korea might dicide to use nukes. And how will China respond to that. Iraq is a terrible tragedy but the crisis in the east and North Korea might be even worse mecry ! Well... I am glad I finely wrote down my troubles here. I would like to know how you think about this matter.

[Elleth]

It's good that you got out your troubles, Eorl the Young. Hopefully it made you feel a bit better. I'm not especially worried about North Korea right now. I doubt that it will effect me too much because even WW2 wasn't fought on American soil (which is where I live), except for the attack on Pearl Habor. Don't worry about what you teacher said Eorl, teachers tend to blow things out of proportion, or at least mine do. If you ever need to talk about your concerns you can talk to me because I tend to get scared about these matters too.

[Little Devil]

If Korea does start a nuclear war, my guess is china isn't really just going to let it go, (if it does involve them in some way, as china is at the moment remaining quite neutral) I think they probably will retaliate, and maybe they rest of the world too, if they do get involved....

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

I heard from the local news that there is a possibility that USA might decide to launch an attack on N.Korea because they are harboring Weapons of Mass Destruction. That would be quite terrible. Gosh, the world these days is becoming more chaotic...

[Bonos-Girl]

becuase korea mis harbouring WoMD or cos USA is harbouring WoMD? it was quite ambiguous...

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

cuz north korea is harboring WoMD

[Gwaihir]

Oh boy, I knew this thread was eventually going to be made, but now that it's here, it scares me. I live pretty close to that country, and Japan will be one of the first places to be attacked if N. Korea starts a sudden war. :(

Yeah, N. Korea may be a big threat, what with the nuclear weapons and all, but let me tell you one thing: that country is not at all wealthy. Iraq at least has oil as an export, but those N. Koreans, they live in a communist country, and communism corrupts a country until finally it can't go on anymore. See what's happened to USSR.

I certainly hope U.S. will deal wisely with that weird nation. China will most likely back up the N. Koreans. They've already warned the U.S. that they'd better not rouse N. Korea. If they start attacking the S. Koreans, it would be terrible! mecry There are many Christians there.

[Undomiel]

hmmm i have to say North Korea are the biggest worry to me all my life. The thing is that their leader Kim Jong-il (though it may be his father still) doesnt seem to have a grip on what nuclear warfare could do. I read an article this week about how he kidnapped a South Korean film director and his actress wife. They were forced to live in prison camps for 4 years and then after that he brought them out claiming it had been a mix up and told them that they had to direct and star in these movies he wanted to create. Often pro-communist. He strikes me as not quite sane, and you dont want someone who's not quite sane with nuclear weapons. They've already landed a missile just off the Californian coast actually, though people dont seem to know much about that. I've been studying nuclear physics recently as well, including discussions on the atom and hydrogen bombs, and from what i can tell, N Korea have definite Nuclear capability. Everyone knows this anyway, they announced to the world that they were restarting their nuclear program. I think the main threat in the next ten years will be from them, because although they arent the only country to have nuclear weapons, i believe their leader is more likely to use them. He describes all capitalist countries as the enemy. I think N. Korea is a far more worrying prospect than Iraq.

Don't fret though Éorl. This post may sound doom ridden, but it's still all only worries. It wont necessarily happen, and lets face it. If we become convinced there's going to be WW3 it would just make life depressing. Just hope for the best, that's all we mere normal people can do :thumbs:

[Bonos-Girl]

I think the main problem with commus=nsim, and the break down of communist countries, is not really a fault of the communist system, but of the people who decide to run a country based on communist values. for some strange reason these leaders are usually violent or insane.

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

That's true. Good example is Stalin and his insane 5-year-plans and secret police and all... *brrr* Erm... I wouldn't say much abt Chairman Mao though, I know some China nationals still hold him in high regard.

[Bonos-Girl]

is china still communist? i'm dumb i know....

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

No, it's not. Neither is Russia.

[Undomiel]

well it seems to me that the concept of communism is a good one, but in practice it just doesnt work.

[Bonos-Girl]

so....doesn't china still have the communist flag....and it still has the hu-uge picture of mao above the maybe forbidden city (i dunno if it is the forbidden city...its in beijing and its huge and its where the emporer used to live....)

ps...i knew russia wasn't!

and i agree that in theory communism is a lovely idea. if i was runnning the world it would probably be a communist society. uinfortunately it doesn't work in practice and also it has gotten a bad name because of leaders like stalin.

[Undomiel]

China is still communist, but there have been reforms over the last several years that have improved conditions.

[Bonos-Girl]

ok...thats kinda what i thought so i was surprised when someone said it wasn't...thanks Undomiel!

when i was over there the person taking the tours spent ages telling us about how china is in theory communist but it behaves more like a capitalist society really....

[Gwaihir]

Yeah China is much better... compared to N. Korea. N. Korea is not very well off. I don't think the people are allowed to go in and out of the country like we are. Many work on collective farms, and don't have modern things like computers (so there's about no hope of a N. Korean in the forum). Anyway they don't know much of what's going on, and they're not allowed to tell anything. I feel sorry for those people... it's only a very small group of high people who enjoy rich life.

[Bonos-Girl]

yep...they're very self-contained and everything is very secretive. thats why its such a worry.

[Eorl the Young]

Yes, they are very secretive and who knows what kinda plans their military command is plannig right now. Did anyone know that during the soccerchampionships in S. Korea the S. Korean army placed anti-air batteries near the stadiums last year, becouse they feared that the North Korea might bomb them? They considered it a serious threat. Isn't that enough reason for concern. But I do not worry too much about it. And my life isn't depressing or something and I'm really glad it isn't! :) The Romans were right when they said: Enjoy it while you can, for tomorrow it might all be over

[Undomiel]

only too true. From what i understand, North Koreans dont know much at all about the outside world. They tend to believe what they are told, which unfortunately is not likely to be the truth. Of course i'm sure that there are those who oppose Kim Jong-il and his regime but he will deal with them as a dictator will in an attempot to silence others. It's the same in any regime of this sort.

[Bonos-Girl]

just to point out that many people in the UK probably don't know whats happening in Iraq at this moment. how can we be sure what they are telling us is true? as far as i'm concerned it isn't, its a bit of a cincidence about that news reporter 'falling' off his hotel roof....

[Undomiel]

well i believe the live coverage and it was great to see the statue of Saddam being pulled down in Baghdad-i watched it live. However, i agree about media manipulatin BG. There is more than one way to get the media to say what you want them to. It doesnt necessarily have to be force. Presenting surmises as facts, without actually giving proof but still making them sound factual is one way. Personally i'm angry at the number of casualties of Iraqi civilians, but if they get rid of Saddm that's good though i am against war but there's not much to stop it now, and the people are happy to be rid of Saddam. I just think that the US and UK are getting into even more dangerous ground now. Running a country that suddenly free of a regime wont be easy. The people will expect changes straight away. My worst fear is that in effect the lives of the people wont change. They are poor and now they expect a better life. I only hope that they will actually get that now and that they will be allowed to elect their own leader. Otherwise the war will have been for nothing, because they will still be suppressed and to make it worse people have died and been seriously hurt. I saw a picture in the paper today of a little boy who had lost both his arms. I just hope that they wont be disappointed in what is to follow.
As for N. Korea i think there propaganda machine is alot worse than here. Pretty much because the government controls it. Thst obviously isnt true in our case as otherwise stories against the government would never get published, but they do.

[Finrod Felagund]

You want to hear the most insane thing I've heard all week?
The Chinese said at the UN "Security Council" meeting that N. Korea was an AMERICAN problem and that the UN should stay out of it, and the french agree with the US about N. Korea. I wish they would both go fly a kite or jump in a lake or something else that polite conversation keeps me from saying. And if the french agree with us, something is frenchy... oops I mean fishy

(l////> them

[Undomiel]

Hey i dont know why everyone is so against the french. My french speaking tutor par exemple est tres gentille. She's really friendly and she's a lovely person. There's gonna be people from every culture that you dont like, but less of the stereotypes. I think they've got more reasons to agree about this than with Iraq, because N. Korea is more dangerous. Dont forget that the french sided with the Americans in the war for Independence and gave them the Statue of Liberty all those years ago. I dont agree that N. Korea is just an American problem, but it is their problem as well. And personally i think its a BIG problem.

[Gwaihir]

They don't like French because they didn't want the war on Iraq. That's just absurd. People have their differences, and they must be accepted.

Yes Undomiel, I agree that it's not a problem for just America. How can it be, when N. Korea has nuclear weapons and missiles such as Tepodong 2 which travels 3,500km? It sure doesn't sound pleasant to us in Japan.

[Undomiel]

No I know. It's definitely a problem for the world. I dont think people can afford to sit back too much with this one. Vigilance at least is definitely needed.

[Gil Galad]

i wudnt worry about N.Korea starting a war, id be more worried about the U.S.A starting WW3.

and N.korea doesnt have nuclear weapons, the nuclear program that they started was to produce energy for there industry

there is nothing wrong with the Comunist system its as good as the Capitalist one, but they r both open to allot of cooruption

and as for the N.Koreans only knowing what they r told and it not being the truth, the Americans are the same, they all too often just take wot they r told and dont search for the truth(which they r v.seldom told)

i think wot the Chinese absador ment wos that the problem was created by the Americans, like the orignal problem in Afghanistan nad the current one there, where the rate of attoricities has increased from wot they were like under the taliban. and cud go on for hours on Iran, Vietnam and Cambodia (where the U.S supported the Kamir Rouge)

[Undomiel]

I agree with you on the propaganda. I watched a BBC2 Correspondant programme yesterday about Warspin and the amount of manipulation that goes on in American and also to a lesser extent British press is appalling. However having said that i still dont believe that it's as bad as N. Korea.
As to the problems being created by America-their government were the ones who got Saddam Hussein into power and their government also supported the Taliban and gave them weapons. It's all a big circle and a case of brushing the past under the rug.

[Gil Galad]

i really think that they shudnt attempt to us force to solve problems, when they just dont even know wot the problems r. sometimes the best actions (especially in the long run) are to leave things allone

[Bonos-Girl]

i agree that America is more worrying than N korea about WW3. but the fact that they started their nuclear program for power doesn't mean that it is all going towards that if you see what i mean.

i agree with you about the communist system, if i ruled the world then we would probably haev something similar to that. it just ahppens that many of the communist leaders where of questionable sanity, not that the system itself was to blame for any problems.

[Hobbit]

I agree with you about America worrying more than N Korea about WW3 BG

The Communistic system was quite nice in theory, but becouse of corruption and the greed of the communists leaders it's kinda ruiened. And becouse it is not motivating at all certainly not when you're living in a horrible regimes like the Soviet Union (with Stalin as the worst)

[Bonos-Girl]

but not all communist societies have to be like that. there isn't a rule that says that all communist countries have to have leaders like stalin in charge.

[Hobbit]

No, but the problem with most communist countries we've seen so far is that there was (or is) a dictator in charge like Stalin, Castro etc. Sure their were quite nice leaders like Gorbachov, but most communists regimes we've seen weren't that good and they ruiened the system. But you're absolutely right when you say that not all communist societies are bad BG it's just that bad leaders gave the communism a bad name over the years.

[Undomiel]

unfortunately the whole point of communism is that there wouldnt be any leaders eventually, but the leaders that were only meant to be "temporary" obviously became far too fond of power. I also agree that in theory communism sounds great. It just hasnt proved to work in practice due to the fact that once the communist revolutionaries get into power they arent in any hurry to give "power to the people" (to use a rather cliché phrase)

[Bonos-Girl]

its all very animal farm-ish unfortunately....and yes..i do know that that was the entire point of the story!

[Gil Galad]

you mention Castro, hobbit. but he has brought Cuba from the point of collapse to a very self suffiecient country, despite the Americans attempting reinstate the vicous regime that wos there b4 him, as well as the fact that the u.s.a tried to starve teh country in2 subbmission, but they 4got that the Cubans wernt stupid, and they wudnt turn on there leader becos some some foriegners wanting him out.

and Stalin too wos not a bad leader (for the majority of his people) he did save the country from collapse at the hands of the Tzars. sure he wos a little bit pysco.

and Mongolia is Comunist isnt it and it is doing quite well, as with Vietnam (despite the americas best efforts)

[Gwaihir]

The North Koreans are very much against the Japanese, I think. They were doing a movie about the cruelty of Japanese soldiers recently. Ugh! They're going too far! :(

[Gil Galad]

well you cannot balem them for having dislike for the Japanese, its something years of imperilism breeds in a country. i really believe that the only way that the problems that the imperialists caused, is for them to reimburse everything they took from the countries they plundered and raped, down to the least and last thing

[Bonos-Girl]

i agree that most communist leaders are actually very good leaders...but it doesn't stop the fact that they always want more power one they;'ve had a taste.

[Hobbit]

Well... I don't see Stalin as a good leader not becouse he didn't make Russia stronger and greater after the fall of the tzars, but the way he did is just bad:
-His collective farm system was bad and caused enormous foodshortage in certain parts of Russia. Everyone who objected against his plans we're murdered though
-He purged his army and gouvernment shortly before the outbreak of WW2 and he ordered the death of many gouvernment officials that didn't support him and of militairy commanders aswell.
-He committed and ordered the commitment of many crimes of War in WW2 (much forgotten becouse they we're allies of the US)
and this is only a part of it! ASfter the fall of the soviet union massgraves we're found of people who disagreed with Stalin openly or not. Stalin may have achieved much as a leader but by the way he did I don't think he was a good leader.
There were some good communist leaders though, like you said BG

As for the North Koreans making films about the cruelty of the Japanese soldiers: I think every country in the world has black pages in the historybook. But I think one culture cannot blame another culture for it's mistakes when they've commited crimes in history too.

[Undomiel]

Dont forget that Stalin committed Genocide. He sent all the Kulaks to work camp type places in Siberia where almost all of them died. Making a country stronger is something that Hitler did with Germany but he committed the most atrocious war crimes. I dont believe that Stalin was any better than Hitler having read about the things he did.
As to hatred between countries that's most definitely not something new. I doubt that many countries can claim to never having committed acts of violence against others. Sad but true. A girl from Korea came to our school to talk to us and she told us that everyone there hates the Japanese and vice versa, but then she actually met some Japanese people her age and they got on really well and now they're working for better relations. I think though that she was from South rather than North Korea.

[Gil Galad]

oh i admit, Stalin was not a good man, he was terible, as was hitler. and many more besides, like the early american governments (for the ethnic cleansing of north america, one of teh most greavous acts in history) and Polpot and his supporters for th ekillg fields of cambodia.

sure every country(or alleast most of them) have commited soem degree of attorcities, but there r definitly varying degrees(and allot of the time its small minorites of teh country that do these things) but when governments have an official policy of ethnic cleansing (prima nochta= first night<english term for legalised rape in scotland and ireland and whales>: if any commoner<i.e person who is not english> marries, then the lord of that land shall take the wife to his bed on the night of teh wedding)(hitlers concentration camps) (the kidnapping of Aboriginal Austrailian children by the government) it is just unconscienable (and then when no apologlies r given)