Elendil V.S. Gil-galad

[Lhuntidomion]

What can I say, I love these V.S. thingy's between two characters of great power. Well my vote goes to Elendil.
He endured a lot of stuff, watching his country falling ito ruin, watchinh his kinsman, usurping the throne and marrying his kinswoman. Plus he manned a ship that was borne into the air, and he was the greayest of mortal men in the Second Age!

[Eorl the Young]

Hmmm, this probably belongs in the Silmarrion section but I don't really care about it though. I hope Elendil would win, but it is probably gonna be Gil Galad though. But people last said that Gimli could beat Boromir so there might be more people woh think that Elendil could win. I hope so, but I don't count on it.

[Lalaith]

Possibly Gil-galad has an unfair advantage, what with having been around for the entire Second Age, but he was the one who pressed for allegiance with the Numenoreans way back before the siege of Imladris. He founded the Last Alliance. He was the bearer of two of the Rings of Power, before passing them to Cirdan and Elrond.

Elendil was a fantastic King, and had the upper hand over Gil-galad in that he managed to produce a few heirs! :P Unfortunately, one of those sons rather messed up in not destroying the One Ring, but that's not really relevant.

Elendil died before he got the chance to prove himself; he depended on Gil-galad greatly for the founding of his kingdom. (The Elven king raised watchtowers for him, etc)

Overall, I stick with Gil-galad, of whom 'the harpers sadly sing' The longest serving High King in Middle earth? He definitely gets my vote!

(Not that I'm biased towards Elves or anything... oh no...)

[Algamesh]

I would have to go with Elendil! Although, Gil-galad did many great things (afterall, I recently referred to him as the Great Elven Diplomat who was responsibile for Sauron's overthrow), I have to give the nod to Men. The race of Men was doomed from the start ... weak-willed, power-hungry, fear of the unknown ... wow! Then along comes Elendil. One of the proud Numenoreans who remained true to the Valar and defied his King to support his morals. A great expansionist who came to Middle-earth with his family and gave the world a chance at redemption through his lineage. I could go on and on! Suffice to say that Elendil has my vote! :naughty:

[David D]

My vote would definately go to Elendil. He was a very great man. He is one of the greatest marinersever. To survive the downfll of Numenor must have taken some great sailing abilities. Elendil had the strength of will to resist Sauron though he had the one ring on his finger and see through his charade. This is something that not even the likes of Celebrimbor could do.

As for abilites as a warrior I this would again have to go to Elendil. In the fight the two had against Sauron Elendil lsted longer and dealt Sauron his death blow suggesting he was the greater warrior. Elendil was over seven foot tall and had virtually all the elven qualities. Therefore my vote would definately go to Elendil as the better leader, warrior and most certainly the better mariner.

To say that he never got a chance to prove himself is completely false. I have already mentioned some of his achievements already. Though he had help in founding his kingdom he clearly did the majority of the work himself. To establish such a great empire as Arnor and Gondor is again another example of his excellence leadership. As for him being the greatest mortal man of the second age i think it was Ar pharazon the Golden.

[Sindarin]

I voted for Elendil. :thumbs:

[Elvenwanderer]

I voted for Gil-galad... I'm not completely biased! Elendil was my favorite Man though!

[Lhuntidomion]

Originally posted by Lalaith
Possibly Gil-galad has an unfair advantage, what with having been around for the entire Second Age, but he was the one who pressed for allegiance with the Numenoreans way back before the siege of Imladris. He founded the Last Alliance. He was the bearer of two of the Rings of Power, before passing them to Cirdan and Elrond.

Where does it say that Gil-galad gave Círdan a Ring of Power? I thought Círdan, being now the eldest elf in Middle-Earth would have enough respect to earn a Ring of Power, not having to recieve one from little ol' Gil-galad. If you could tell me where that passage is Lalaith, it'd be greatley appreciated. Furthermore Eorl the Young, why does this belong in the Simarilion section?

[Lhuntidomion]

UGH! There I go again. It is in the Simarillion section, it shouldn't be.. So how do I move it?

[Eorl the Young]

Were should it be then Lhuntidomien? The Sil tells the story of the last alliance so both characters have a role there. But I won't complain if you move it somewhere else (and I haven't got the faintest idea how to move it, sorry) About the topic: Elendil is great man and I hope he would win, and of course he was one of the greatest of the numenorians (How do you write the word anyway?) but Gil Galad was from the first age and is kinda "special" and of course has a ring of power. So they are both quite equal, but Gil Galad has one advantage: He has a strong spear so he could poke at Elendil from long distance while Elendil had to approach him a lot closer with Narsil. :battle:

[Lalaith]

I got the info from 'Unfinished Tales'...

After Celebrimbor gave Nenya to Galadriel, she advised him to get rid of the other two:

Celebrimbor followed her counsel that the Ring of Air and the Ring of Fire should be sent out of Eregion; and he entrusted them to Gil-galad in Lindon. (It is said here that at this time Gil-galad gave Narya, the Red Ring, to Cirdan Lord of the Havens, but later in the narrative there is a marginal note that he kept it himself until he set out for the War of the Last Alliance.

Also, after the siege of Imladris, when the first White Council was held:

At that time also Gil-galad gave Vilya, the Blue Ring, to Elrond, and appointed him to be his vice-regent in Eriador; but the Red Ring he kept, until he gave it to Cirdan when he set out from Lindon in the days of the Last Alliance.

In truth, I doubt it was an issue of 'respect' over who got the Rings. Celebrimbor was a Noldo - he gave a ring to Galadriel who was mighty among the Noldor, and Gil-galad was the High King after all, as well as kin to both Celebrimbor and Galadriel. No loyalties would have been due to Cirdan, based purely on kinship...

I hope that helps! :grin:

(Say, would anyone have guessed that Gil-galad is my favourite Elf??? I know waaaay too much!)

[Algamesh]

Lhuntidomien,

Did you get my PM about moving this thread? It was I who moved the thread and I sent you a message explaining the reasons. Let me recall a bit of that in case you haven't accessed the Private Message.

I moved this from the Lord of the Rings forum to the Silmarillion forum because most of the action that involves both characters takes place in the Silmarillion. Although briefly mentioned in LOTR, if we assign this thread to the Sil. forum, it will allow an interested party to immediately access a wealth of information about both personages. If you have any further questions, you can email me: Algamesh@warofthering.net. I ask that no one reply directly to this post in order to keep the discussion on track.

Thanks!

[Rámalókë]

I picked Gil-galad because:

* He is capable of giving away the rings of power, leaving none for himself.

* Although he has the option of hotfooting it over the sea when trouble rises, he stays around, is a diplomat, organises an alliance and that. He dies... and I sort of feel that that's a bigger thing for an elf because Elendil would have died pretty soon anyway.

* He must be an elf of extreme patience. Marching with a mixed army could not have been easy... the mortals need to rest now, the mortals have got sick.... the mortals need shelter, the mortals need to eat. And he doesn't create human kebabs with Aiglos on the way to Mordor. So he gets my vote for that basically.

Also he's an elf of course, and I'm a bit biased.

[Voroturiön]

I chose Gil-galad!

[Gil Galad]

this was a tough one, i went for Gil-Galad, as is said above he was strong and powerful, an excelent leader keeping an extremely diverse army together and leading it to victory over a great foe, and in the process giving his life (he saves elendil, atleast for a while by doing this) to take the foe out. he was long lived and once possessed two of the rings. he say some of the first age, he rejected sauron in his fairest form, he gave ellendil protection and aid while he set up his kingdoms. and altho elendil was good , Gil-Galad was great

[Gwaihir]

I voted for Elendil, though I don't really know why.

[ereinion]

Gil-galad,absolutely........but i'm hardly objective..........anyway,i think his stronger and more expiriensed......

[Gil Galad]

well said ereinion, well said

[ereinion]

:grin: thanks....

[Gil Galad]

no probs. dam the voting is getin very close

[Ereinion]

so? i have fate in my king......

[Lalaith]

This is quite possibly the weirdest conversation ever!!

Ereinion and Gil-galad - tee hee! lol No one ever mentioned the last High King of the Noldor had a split personality!! lol

Although I gotta agree - Elven High King all the way!

*waves Gil-galad banner in the corner*

[Glorfindel]

I voted Gil Galad. I really like Elendil and he would probably be more then a match and he would put up a great fight but in the end Gil Galad would win:

1. Gil Galad is the son of Fingon te valiant, one of the strongest elves in the first age and probably he owned some of the powers of his father. Elendil might be the son of an extreemly powerful Numenorian but still I think Gil Galad possesed greater powers.
2. Gil Galad ***** a ring of power whitch only makes his power greater and Elendil had no craft that could improve his strenght.
3.Gil Galad wielded a great spear and could keep Elendil of him from a distance (like someone said before in the conversation) while Elendil had to come a lot closer to use his sword.

So I'd bet on Gil Galad

[David D]

Gigalad was not the son of Fingon. He was the son of Orodreth was his father, which would make him the grand nephew of Fingon. At the time of the last alliance Gilgalad would not hav had a ring of power, though I do not believe a ring of power wuld increase your physical proweness.

Elendil was extremely tall and strong, most likely stronger than Gilgalad, but Gilgalad like most elves would be the more agile. Elendil, however, did last longer than Gilgalad when they fought Sauron. So I would have to choose Elendil.

[Glorfindel]

Well at least in the Sil it's said that Gil Galad was Fingons son but I do remember something about him being Orodreth's son. Was that in the HOME series? I wouldn't know for I don't own any of that series (but I want o buy at least one of them. Does anybody has a suggestion about a cool book in that serie?)
I always thought the Rings of power gave some sort of magical powers to the one who wields it. I mean the men that recieved the rings become socerrers (or however the word is spelled) And I think magic could be an awfully great tool in battle.

[Ereinion]

what's HOME series?

[Gil Galad]

its a series of stories from middle earth. i thought that he i was the son of fingon aswell. which rings was it that he had, it was the one that ended up wit gandalf anyway wasnt it, it gave courage and i think that wud help and i think there wud be a residual effect from them

[Ereinion]

thanks....and i think his ring is the ring Elrond has.....Gandalf's ring belonged to Cirdan.......

[Gil Galad]

but didnt he have two rings, then he gave them to Elrond and Cirdan and cirdan in turn gave it to Gandalf when he landaed

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by David D
Gigalad was not the son of Fingon. He was the son of Orodreth was his father, which would make him the grand nephew of Fingon. At the time of the last alliance Gilgalad would not hav had a ring of power, though I do not believe a ring of power wuld increase your physical proweness.


Indeed in Tolkien's later works, he had decided that Gil-galad was Orodreth's son, but taking the Silmarillion as canon, which is what I tend to do, I usually associate him as being Fingon's son.

As for the rings of power (I know I have said this on a couple of other threads) what happened was:

Celebrimbor sent Narya and Vilya to Gil-galad in Lindon.
After the siege of Imladris, the High King passed Vilya to Elrond (at least according to one account in UT) . He kept Narya until the time of the Last Alliance, when he gave it to Cirdan.

The power of the Elvish rings was more or less to slow down decay through passage of time... Hence the preservation of Lorien and Rivendell in the Second Age...

*still waving Gil-galad banner* ;)

[Gil Galad]

*and i come forth for battle under the darkening skies as my proud banner flutters in the wind*

so didnt Narya give courage, and thats why Cirdan gave it to Gandalf cos he said stuf that gandalf wud be goin to dark places and wud need it, wot wos the primary function of Vilya

[Lalaith]

Em, I think that all the Elven Rings were for preservation - Cirdan knew that Gandalf's tasks would tire him out, so he gave him Narya to preserve his spirit... or something like that.... :huh:

[Gil Galad]

i still think that they wud help on ein combat, u no by preserving is spirit, will etc

[Lalaith]

Quite possibly they would have had some sort of effect like that but do not forget that there's no way that the bearers of the Elven Rings would have wielded them openly while Sauron was still in power - their perogative was to keep them hidden...

[Gil Galad]

yes but even if they didnt use them openly, it wud still have an effect on the bearer, like it is said that the ring that wos given to gandalf helped him in his quest but he never used it openly

[Eärendil]

I chose Gil-galad because he's my 2nd favorite Elf. After Earendil of course.

[Gil Galad]

thank you Earendil, we r kin after all(but so r u and Elendil, so never mind that)

[Ereinion]

Hey,me too.....:cool: