hidden hero

[Morgoth]

so Haldir was slain in the film but not in the book.

meny have slain PJ for this but is it so bad?

the meaning of Haldir is Hidden Hero.
was this meaning on PJ's mind when he desided that the elves would go to helms deep? would the real Haldir have done the same thing. I think so, The heroic deeds of Haldir were true to the book even if the stoy line strayed a little.

Thoughts??

[ImDaMom]

Haldir's death was to me, symbolic, of the deaths of all the elves and men who died at HD. He answered the call of Elrond, knowing that he had a choice of going to Valinor or risking death to fight alongside men, honoring the age old alliance. Yes, it was sad, but was the death of Hama any easier to take just because he was a soldier of Rohan? I think Haldir was truly a "hidden" hero, fighting for a cause that was not his, leading his elves into battle, and fighting to the ultimate sacrifice. A major theme of JRR's was people/elves/dwarves/hobbits fighting against extreme odds, and staying true to their goals. Haldir's death really fit into this theme. Another proof that while deviating from the text, PJ has stayed very true to the heart of the trilogy.

[Morgoth]

thats not the point of this thread thou.
hama has nothing to do with it
and where has elrond ever been conected to Haldir??
Haldir and his two brothers were not even from rivendell.

were do you get your information?? is tolkien writing more story from his grave???

[ImDaMom]

I used Hama as an example. I was agreeing with you that Haldir was a hidden hero, and that this little bit of PJ deviation did indeed follow the themes of JRR. The part about Elrond came from PJ's version, where Haldir "brings a message from Lord Elrond". And as long as we're asking questions- what 2 brothers of Haldir's are you referring to? I don't remember brothers. And as far as JRR writing from the grave, huh??? My post was purely my opinion, and nothing more or less.

[Morgoth]

yes I was a little harsh with you,
I have read the books and done more research than most and tend to forget others have not
my Bad
well his brothers or Rumil and Orophin (there is a ` above the U on Rumil but don't know how to get it there lol)

[Eorl the Young]

Do you also know who are his parents Morgoth? He's probably not the child of Galadriel and Celeborn huh? lol
And I wouldn't know if Haldir would have done the same if the same situation would accur in the book. He has maybe 5 pages in the book so his character is not dicribed enough to see what he would have done...

[ImDaMom]

And as for reading the books, and doing "more research" than most, you probably shouldnt be too quick to judge. As you have given no birthdate on your profile, I have no idea of your age or life experience. For me, I would of course assume that others are more well read, for I have only read the books since 1972 (usually an annual occurence), have studied Prof T's other writings, beyond ME, and I believe I have a pretty good handle on the stories, and their histories. You, of course, may be much better versed on the tales, but you should not be so quick to judge other's opinions.

And Eorl....there's a lot of variance in the names of the son of Celeborn and Galadriel....one soure (UT) lists her son as Amroth, but then also names him as a son of a Sindarin prince. The only thing that is ever agreed upon regarding the children of Galadriel is that Celebrian their daughter married Elrond. But then nothing about the story of C& G is clear. It seems the good Prof never really had time to bring the story together. What a shame. ;)

[Eorl the Young]

Well... I guess Haldir is just a normal Lorienelf who wored himself up to a commander. It's quite a pity that Celebrian wasn't worked out a little more... okay she was worked out fine but she seems like a very interesting character...

[ImDaMom]

She wasnt really fleshed out in the books, either. All we know is that she had been taken by orcs at one point, and was rescued by Elladan and Elrohir. After that experience, she sailed to Valinor, to overcome her injuries and grief. Sort of a sad tale.

[Celebrían]

Quite sad, indeed.

I would write out my opinion with regards to this thread, but all I would say imdamom has already said, therefore just go re-read what imdamom has already said, and you will know where I stand! lol :grin: This seems to happen a lot, doesn't it imdamom? ;)

[Ithilraen]

I was very angry when they killed Haldir off. What made me even angrier was that Jackson strayed from the story line. (But that's a different thread) I agree with Imdamom. Haldir was the Hidden Hero, but couldn't they at least kill off somone else? Haldir (Craig Parker) was so hot...hehe.

[Celebrían]

I don't think anybody was happy when he died. It's never fun to watch someone die (eventhough you know it's just a movie), but his death was a very moving moment, and it beautifully portrayed for me the self-sacrifice theme that runs throughout LOTR. I know it wasn't in the book, but it worked for me, because it shows the principle of self-sacrifice that Tolkien focused on in his books. :thumbs:

[ImDaMom]

And, had they not killed him off, what would they have done with him after the battle? Would he just go back to Lothlorien? Would he have gone on to fight at Pelennor Fields (thus inciting another wave of 'WHAT ARE THE ELVES DOING THERE" angst). No, if he had to be at HD, PJ had to kill him off to make it worth while.

[Celebrían]

lol Yeah, that's another way of looking at it. It may sound harsh to some (I don't include myself in this bunch), but that's very true.

[Morgoth]

would it not be wise to assume that PJ was not sicking to the book but he was sicking to the character. being true to the character is being true to the book, a paradox don't you agree,
not much was said about our friend Mr Haldir I agree but in the storys by Tolkien the most simple of things like a name were importent and as I said his means hidden hero,
It is likely he was given this for his role in protecting Galadriel and the city within the woods, but would he have gone and layed down his life gladly well thats the point here isn't it
I say yes and with that Yes PJ was sticking to the book
__________

I have read the books and done more research than most and tend to forget others have not

did I say that well that was not a very civel thing to say was it now that I have re read it, I clearly was not thinking
you have my upmost apologys