Silmarillion?

[Aragorn Isildur]

Judging by the reaction to FoTR and to the forthcoming TTT and RoTK, should there a big screen adaption of The Silmarillion? Do you think it would be a success or a big no-no? In my opinion it would draw off the success of LoTR. Tell me what you all think and also what actors do you think should be cast if it did become a reality?

[Catz]

i dont think the Sil is really filmable as a movie, since it has no narrative structure....its a selection of short tales, not a unified whole...maybe a mini series *shudders lightly at the use of the words*.....much tho i loathe the genre, tho thats mainly from past abominations...the format would suit better....but theyd have to get the right folk to do it, both actors and production crew....lol i dunno, but i reckon maybe PJ and co have had enough of ME to last them a while, after over 5 years:rolleyes: lol
:catz:

[Fatty]

Hmm well I think more likely one of the tales would be mad einto a movie. Like tuirn, now that could be a good film, Sean Bean as Turin :-).........whoa s Beleg though........

[Illuvatar]

True......I have to agree Fatty:p

In fact there is a ballet troup in Indiana that's putting on my favorite story 'Of Beren and Luthien'.....

I for one would LOVE to see that story come to life on the big screen!!!

[Nessa]

Beren and Luthien could be done very well, I think, and I'd really like to see it. But Turin....no. I'm not saying its not a good story, but most films aren't one tragedy after the other, leading up to nothing but a giant tragedy. Excellent casting, though! Bean would make and excellent Turin....

[Catz]

Mmmm yeah i heard about that ballet......has anyone seen it?
and i think youre right Fatty, theyd have to go with one of the stories....Beren and Luthien would be my choice....love stories with a touch of tragedy always go down well....
Nessa youre quite right....cant really see how they could make Turins story compatible with the general public, without losing all the parts of it that drew me to it in the first place....but then i like a good tragedy;)
:catz:

[Fatty]

Ah yes not a dry eye in the house, would be controvertial too, incest and all. B&L more likely I agree.

[Pil]

B&L COULD be done....maybe...just.... :mmmm: Making LOTR into a film is quite easy compared to the Silmarillion! B&L could only be done cos its a love story that's quite well known compared to other Sil stories. :wiggle:

Overall i would say...no. Tolkien didn't even get to PUBLISH the book...to put it on screen would be dodgy cos we never know exactly how it was SUPPOSED to be. :huh: :dragon:

[Black Rider]

i think that the masses wouldnt enjoy the entire Silmarillion put to a movie. they wouldnt get it, and in order for them to fully appreciate it they'd ahve to twist it so much. i like the idea of the ballet tho, just the individual chapter on display. it would be nice if they can do all the chapters like that. one at a time :)

[Aragorn Isildur]

Hehe, i thought it would cause controversy!

Aragorn:king:

[Mirkgirl]

As a single story I'm a bit scared of what Beren and Luthien might become on screen.... And anyway I'd prefer to see Turin, but it's not likely to happen.

But I doubt any of them can make a good movie, anyway. For mini series, the genre is not suitable IMO.

Maybe all that can be filmed in Silmarillion (it's not so much) can be made in a 3hr film of different stories, between which a narrator would give some information... something like it... but that's just me

[Pil]

Either way...i think we all agree that it would be a MAJOR project that would be VERY hard to do well! :( :p

[Ronin]

said this once before, quite a while ago...that while i would love to see Sil brought to the big screen, there is neither the continuancy of story nor the public interest to bring it to reality. however, i think it would be perfect for a mini-series...especially with effects becoming cheaper and cheaper as technology improves. but, then again, i just don't see it happening.

of course, ask me 3 years ago if i thought LOTR had any chance of making it to film...i'd ask what u were taking, cause it obviously has some nice effects.

[Polly Sandybanks]

I don't think you could make the Sil into a movie. It would be confusing and weird, probably. But what you could do, is to make a movie about Tolkien.. and then include certain bits of all of his most well known work in that movie. Or something like that. :)

[Aragorn Isildur]

So weve decided a no on that. Would you want it made into a film if it could be done and a director would take the plunge?

[Finrod Felagund]

Maybe an animated series with some actions figures to make it an easier sell...:o

I hate to say it but an animated series would be the only way to pull it off b/c of money and the sheer magnitude of the stories. Age of the Lamps, Trees, First Age, Second, Third etc. Long time to make into a single stab. A series would be easier to break up . There are enough tolkien fans to make an audience big enough for some network like SciFi to take a look at a animated series. The scenes would be too large for a live action series without making it too hoaky. An animated series could bring all the cool stuff to life... the Nirnaith Arnediad, Turin and Glaurung, the War of Wrath, etc. I think an animated series is about the only hope we have of seeing the Silmarillion. I'd watch it, probably buy it too.

[Aragorn Isildur]

So i we say an animation, what style of amination would be the right option? It would have to be realistic.

[Catz]

definitely not anime, please....those bug eyes drive me nuts...tho animation is improving all the time...in a few years it might be possible to do this without it costing a kings ransom, and still make it look good....
:catz:

[Black Rider]

thats a great idea, we just have to make sure Disney doesnt get hold of the rights. i dont want to see Nathan Lane doing the voice of anyone...
;)

[Bawax]

i think theres just too much that goes on in it for there to be a film of it made.

maybe films on a few particular chapters would be good. Beren and Luthien, as has already been stated. :)

[Narsil's weilder]

Ian Holm should play a younger Bilbo in The Hobbit with Sean Connery as the voice of Smaug. The Silmarillion may be another story, I think it's a little over the top.

[Daughter of Finarfin]

I think it would be a great Miniseries, and Networks like NBC have the budget for it, judging form the Tenth Kingdom and the Merlin Miniseries.

[Black Rider]

that would be a great idea. i loved their 10th kingdom series. and look at Dinotopia

[Elf angel]

Originally posted by Aragorn_Isildur
Judging by the reaction to FoTR and to the forthcoming TTT and RoTK, should there a big screen adaption of The Silmarillion? Do you think it would be a success or a big no-no? In my opinion it would draw off the success of LoTR. Tell me what you all think and also what actors do you think should be cast if it did become a reality?

Hope so.Coudn't get pass page 10 on that book,i'll always ZZZZZZZ. lol

But the tales are complicated enough to understand even for Tolkien fan like me...i don't think it will have the same magic as LOTR if you know what i mean.People wil go "huh..?".

As for actors,maybe they ask Orly to play Thranduil lol

[Bonos-Girl]

i don't think that it should be made...even if itn could be....it would be a prequel and they never wrk......look at star wars......the trilogy is great....but then you get episode 1 + 2.....

[Wilwarin]

If it could be done, and if it could be done really well. Then, yeah, I'd like to see it as a movie or or other viewable format. But if it can't be done right, and I mean at least as good a LotR, then I would rather they didn't do it.

I agree with the Beren and Luthien idea though. But then again, I just don't see how it could be done.

I also think Sean Bean would make a perfect Túrin! Wow, I can see it now!.... It woud be cool if they could do it and people liked it.

[Mirkgirl]

Sean Bean as Turin... now that's a scary idea

[HobbitFriend]

I havn't yet read the Silmarillion (my next Tolkien book to read ;) ) so i don't have an opinion on whether or not i think it should be made into a movie... but i would like to see The Hobbit made into a movie (ik it's already a cartoon, but you know what i mean).

[Morgothian]

Do u think they should make a movie on the Silmarillion.

[Catz]

ok this has been moved here from the library and merged with this thread as its the same subject
thanks
:catz:

[SindarinGirl]

The beginning of the Silmarillion, at least, doesn't lend itself to a movie, I don't think, the characters aren't really developed, and the story is not really fleshed out enough, there's no dialogue to speak of (so interaction between the characters is hard to imagine) and the time frames are huge.

I could see them attempting it in the animation style of Final Fantasy, though, if someone decent - maybe Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay - were to work the story to the point where a script could be developed from it.

But my gut reaction is that it would be a mistake.

Totally MHO

[Finrod Felagund]

A single Movie would be a mistake, maybe something like " From JRR Tolkien's Silmarillion:Of Beren and Luthien" or " From JRR Tolkien's Silmarillion: The Fall of Gondolin", etc. cool Final Fantasy style animation series. I'm afraid live action would be too expensive (even though FF was terribly expensive for an animated picture and boy did it flop).
The Sil is a conglomeration of histories with only a few feature stories. And we though LOTR was hard to put on the screen...

[Rumil]

I agree with the issue! Seriously as most have said i think film would be a disaster... i do however think it would make quite a good long running TV series (something in the line of the 70s BBc adaptation of I Claudius - a classic btw). As i have said elsewhere it has something of the soap about it (death and passions in the house of Finwe etc) and that multi generation Thornbirds thing (god forbid a mini series)... so a major 24 part TV series......mmm.......yummmm

[Gwaihir]

I'd say it shouldn't be a movie. TV series would be better, but it would be very costly and hard to make. I suggest that the Silmarillion remain a book and that we should use our imagination and not the screen.

[Glarawen]

I think it would make a good movie if and only if it was compiled right. I think it would make a good cartoon collection too ;)

[HobbitFriend]

Maybe they could make it into a TV series :p haha Then they can have all the parts/versions and we'd never get board - it'd be one heck of a finale when it's done though! lol

[Glarawen]

Yeah that is along the lines of what I was thinking :thumbs: It would be cool if they disided to do that but i doubt they will :( oh well I will keep wishing

[HobbitFriend]

hmm... we should talk to Sean Astin... I hear he's directed some things (ie. Angel on the WB) ;)

[Sindarin]

I believe a film version of The Silmarillion could be done - if done properly, and without haste.

If time is a factor, a series of short, live action films would be a good idea - 45 minute to hour long movies to be periodically shown at the cinema, and then release them all on DVD. :thumbs:

[Beleg Strongbow]

Please, no! No movie of Sil. The book is sort of an abridged bible and I don't think that it would be possible in any form, whether it be anime (shudder), 3D animation, live acting or whatever. There would be no room for character development and no room for exposition. THe first part of the movie would send people off to sleep and trying to explain Illuvatar & the Valar to the uneducated would be a nightmare.

Having said all that, I bet somebody goes and makes a musical.pfbbt pfbbt

[SindarinGirl]

A musical?! Maybe it could compete with Chicago, Moulin Rouge and all the Muppet Movies! Cool! lol KIDDING!

I've just finished Beren and Luthien and while I was reading it (curse this thread!) I kept trying to visualize it on screen - arrgh. It didn't come out too well, either. :rolleyes:

[Beleg Strongbow]

Yes, it's difficult to try and set the mind's eye to picture these two wonderful characters. I don't think that my mind can picture the most beautiful Elven princess ever seen. It's just not possible.

[Glarawen]

It could be done!!!! lol I would watch it

[Brindlescruff]

No.

I am in the process of reading it. Very very good.

~brin

[Glarawen]

yeah it is a good book if you travel a lot.....

[Aragorn Isildur]

Ive always seen Milla Jovovich as a Luthien, not sure about Sean Bean as Tùrin since he's known as Boromir. I'd have said definately to him though if he hadnt played that part.

Aragorn:king:

[Glaurung]

There is one Silmarillion movie coming:
Ancanar (http://www.ancanar.com)
Seems pretty crappy

[Bonos-Girl]

the website's cool....

[Orkybash]

Sorry, but no.

Q: Is this a story written by J.R.R. Tolkien?
A: No, Ancanar is an original story written by Sam Balcomb. It was inspired by the works of Professor Tolkien, which has been a huge influence on his entire life. There is no connection between this production and New Line Cinema, Saul Zaentz, or the Tolkien Estate.

[Voroturiön]

They said that LOTR could never be done...

I think they could break the movie into 3 pts.

The Silmarillion

Pt.1
"War of the Jewels" -
Awakening of the Elves, Valinor, the Noldor in ME, Wars of Beleriand

Pt.2
"The Lays of Beleriand"
Beren and Luthien, Turin, Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin

Pt.3
"The War of Wrath"
The Downfall of Numenor, The Forging of the Rings of Power, The Last Alliance

[Beleg Strongbow]

My opinion is probably worth little, but I have checked out the site and had a look at the production details, actors, etc., and have found it very 'unlike' anything Tolkienesque. As I say, it's "my opinion" so don't get all rowdy and cranky...

Voroturiön....nice idea, but I don't think it's a matter of "being able" to do it. It's more a matter of "who'll watch it". True, the book is nowhere near the size of LOTR, but the compression of not only the First and Second Ages and before the counting of the ages would surely turn it into something of a mind-blower. To try and develope characters, plots, exposition, etc. would end up boring the bell-bottoms off a lot of people. To try and tell the stories as in the book form would leave the audience saying "well, that was quick! Why did that happen?"

I reckon that the movie would be too patchy, regardless of the "Wonders of modern technology". They still have to be able to string it together. Continuity would kill it from the get-go.

[Orkybash]

I agree with Beleg. The reason people didn't think LotR could be done was that there was no way you could get those huge battle sequences on screen!

Solution: Massive.

The reason people don't think the Silm can be done is because there's way too much stuff going on the bring to the screen, even if you make it into a trilogy! Compare the telling of LotR in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" and the end of the Silm to LotR its self. We have about 2-3 pages in the Silm, whereas the same story takes over 1000 to tell in LotR.

Solution? I doubt that there is one.

Now, what I suggested before was to make movies revolving around single stories in the Silm. Beren and Luthien alone could make for an epic-length movie, as could Turin!

[Finrod Felagund]

And they would have to make up TONS of dialog.
It would be like trying to put the entire Old Testament of the Bible on screen.
I still say an animated series could pull it off, in fact I'm kinda surprised no one has tried a small scale animation series (not like the Big Screen animated attempts)

I wonder how hard it would be to get backing... but I'm afraid permission from the Estate would be harder

[Orkybash]

Like I said way earlier, permission from the estate will be impossible. Chris Tolkien doesn't want *anyone* to make a Silm movie, as he feels it would be disrespectful to his father's intentions when he wrote the book. If the Estate still had controll of LotR then I don't think PJ (or Bakshi for that matter!) would have been able to do their versions. But, that's another story... the point is, it's not gonna happen until the rights expire, which I believe happens in 2023, though it may be 2048 instead.

[Beleg Strongbow]

The story will remain pure in thought for me and not a misguided attempt at something that should be left to the imagination. The way of the story for me is that I've mentally filled in the gaps and this has created a total experience for me and something I didn't have to do with LOTR as Tolkien had supplied enough for me to think about.

Sorry Finrod, but I don't want an animated series. The outcomes always point towards something that looks too 'Disney' for my liking...

[Gil Galad]

itd be dam near imposible to make tho, from the winding storylines to the different creatures, but some of the battle scenes cud be absolutely the best ever. like when the Lord of the Dwarves gets crushed by Glaurung and the worm fleas and the Dwarves carry there lord of the battle feild and nobody touches them. or when lutien goes to save beren and the fight between the hound af valinor and the wolves and wolf sauron , and ..........................oh it cud b excelant

[Eorl the Young]

A movie of the silmarrion is almost impossible and I don't think any director would try it. When you read the book you can read parts over again till you understand it and you can reread confusing parts, but a cinema movie doesn't work that way. So if someone were to make the attempt he would have to make the story much simpler like: giving Feanor only two sons. Leave out Finarfin. Give Fingolfin only one son (Finrod for he is the most important). Use only three Valar. Leave out all men except Beren, Turin and Tuor etc. etc. All Tolkien fans (inclusing me) would go crazy if someone would do that and with good reason: Tolkien spend a good deal of his time to make it a complete and complicated story wich challenges the reader to try it and it's beauty would go to waste if they would "simple" it. There is only one story in the entire Sil which can be turned into a film: the story of the last Alliance, for it isn't that complicated (at least I think so) and lots of people would go see it since it is directly related to the LotR.
:) Some guy said to me that they should have made the film round the last Alliance since he found that story a lot more interesting then the story of Frodo.

[Gil Galad]

they chaged the battle of the last allinace in the fotr tho didnt they. well u cud prob make a film about beren, he led an eventful life.and wot about the Narn, it could work on the big screen. and u definitely cud not cut out any of the sons of feanor and turgon is more important then finrod, altho both r important. and i think that if u made those cuts it wud add imposible amounts of complexity to the story & u wud have to rewrit e almost the entire thing

[Eorl the Young]

Well... they left out some things in the prolouge of FotR, but the film alone was confusing enough for most people. Making a film about the last alliance would make all these mistakes up. And personally I wouldn't like to see any events of the first age on the cinema screen, not even one as beautiful as the story of Beren and Luthien. It is just a an age of wonder, sang and deeds just unimaginable in our time. Like Luthien beeing the most beautiful woman on earth (they will imidiatly start critisising her. When I was watching FotR some guys were imidiatly complaning that "Arwens head was to big and her lips were to thick"), Beren and Luthien returning from death etc. etc.
I just think it is too much wonder for most people (not for Tolkienfans of course :) ) It is a good story for a musical or something like that, but not for a movie. P.S. if you're still not convinced, just imagine Finrod singing to Sauron on the cinemascreen. That will probably cure you roflmao

[Gil Galad]

i c ur point, but they didnt realy sing to eachother, they chanted and cast and put forth their power. u r rite tho. how bout the story of the forging of the rings

[Eorl the Young]

That would be trés cool :thumbs: Lots of people are interested in the story becouse it's directly related to LotR.

[Celebrían]

I don't think the Sil could work on the big screen. When you think about people that couldn't understand LOTR, can you imagine what kind of trouble they would have following the Sil? The Sil is even confusing for people who have read it. Maybe a "mini-series" format would be good (don't think it'll happen, but I think this format would work the best, in my humble opinion :grin: )

[Gil Galad]

actually i aggree wit u celebrian on that, itd take a fair few films to make the silmarrilion, unless u gutted it to peices, a series would be beter

[Eorl the Young]

I don't no why, but somehow I wouldn't like a mini series about the Sil. Let's not try to make it all into film and leave it to our imagination. I think the LotR films is really cool so far (I know almost for certain that RotK is gonna be really great) and the best movie I've seen and the Hobbit would be really awsum as well, but we just can't film all of Tolkiens work. So let's just leave the Sil as it is: A book to inspire our imagination and give as good time reading it. lol Maybe we should make a film out of Farmer Giles of Ham

[Gil Galad]

yeh Eorl, i see your point, there would be no way to make a film of the Silmarilion, but i think that parts of it could be made into excellent independent works without making a mess of them

[Eorl the Young]

Well... they could make a film about Celebrimbor or the last Alliance or the hunt for the Ring but i hope they do not touch any story of the first age. But you're definitly right Gil Galad: some stories could certainly be made into film: like the forging of the rings and the last alliance... or the stories fo Numenor maybe.

[Gil Galad]

yeh i actually overlooked Numenour, yeh they cud definitly be made work for the big screen, but i still think that their r stories from the first age thatd work as movies to

[Eorl the Young]

I don't think a movie of a first age story would work on the big screen... wich story would you like to see in the cinema then, Gil Galad?

[Celebrían]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think they should make the Sil (and I really don't think they will). It would be way too complex. I was just saying that if a format had to be chosen, a mini-series, might work better, simply for length-sake. :thumbs:

[Gil Galad]

which story, im not sure, prehaps ......... the story of the ending of the first age, not much history wud be needed, and it would be very compelling stuf

[Eorl the Young]

I suppose they could do that, although I think they will at least have to tell how it started... and between the start and the end of the first age sooo many has happened which we would all mis... and everything that happenes afectes other events. Example: before they can tell what happened to the Silmarrils they will have to tell the story about Beren and Luthien otherwise the audience won't now how Thingol got hold of it. No... I think we should just make a movie about a second or third age story. :thumbs:

[Gil Galad]

no it cud work, u start wit the trees bein smited, then skip to the jewels, then the strife between ungolliant and morgoth then ....the curse of mandos, a few clips of battles with elves winning then brief introduction of man and show of the glory of the elven realms , tehn how they get broken as teh power of morgoth waxes,and have some thin in it bout the how even in those drk days when morgoth power was so full there were still soem great deeds done,beren etc. then to the nirneath when they get crushed and take it up from there it cud all be done in 10mins without destroyoin it