Be Kind to New Comers...????

[Rune of Mirkwood]

I have been subscribed for almost two weeks and have not only noticed "a few" postings/replies on various Forum Threads, but have experienced it myself - that certain people with "thousands of postings" (indicating they have been active here for SOME TIME") are very quick to jump in and point out your mistakes or correct you in a condescending manner.

I found myself in my first week having to go back into a post and "apologize" (???) or explain my mistake, for some slight error while learning to navigate through this vast and diverse Forum.

I haven't started this thread because I am super sensitive by nature or hurt. Please don't get me wrong here.
It's just something I have noticed even today, while browsing through the various threads.

So, I thought I would post this new thread on behalf of those just coming into the War of the Ring and it's Forums.

It would be nice if people would be a little kinder in their wordings and not make others feel so odd, bad, embarassed - whatever feeling is conjured up - by those who are and have more experience. We all had to START somewhere...

The more you use the Forum, the easier it becomes to get around. Thanks for listening to me. :)

[Dawn Noelle]

that is an issue here, i have felt it myself
treating people like that can easily drive them away!

thanks for nicely pointing it out :thumbs:

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Wow! and I thought I would be criticized for my new thread...
hey Dawn Noelle...I am sure there are others that feel as we do, being new here...to one Silver Subscriber to another, thank you so much for commenting immediatley on this :lol:

I've been browsing this Forum for hours each day and I just felt compelled to write on some of the reactions and comments given back - and please forgive this statement, but I was thinking of not even writing any more yesterday...

Togive you an example, one person made fun of my compliment to a name that I thought was "beautiful and unique"... I just rolled my eyes :mmmm:

Perhaps it is the youthful age group responding to "my age group"....:grin:

[Illuvatar]

Good thoughts Rune...

We all want this to be a special place for Tolkien lovers of all ages, whether new to forum life or not, and we on staff all agree in the rule "Treat others as you yourself would like to be treated".

One thought to bear in mind is that when pointing out a mistake whether your a moderator doing this or just a community member, it's quite often best for all involved to utilize our Private Message system rather than posting in this stuff in public.

I have found that most folks respond better to critisism if they don't feel that they are being publicly flogged for their mistake. lol

[Dawn Noelle]

amen mr tart

i think it's important to keep it private if correction is necessary.

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Thank you, Illuvatar, for your kindness always and pointing me in the right direction. I will do so from now on...that is why I was hesitant (I do have tact...) and "asked to be forgiven".

I agree ~ I read the rules and loved seeing the statement of "Treat others as you would yourself.." but I think people respond rather than think before posting. Freedom of speech, I guess.

Do you want to remove the thread?

[Illuvatar]

No..not at all....

Tis a good thing to discuss things like tact and manners. No problem with that at all! :p

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I've been lucky enough not to experience this...but when such a thing starts, its so important to stop it at once..or it will grow too big. If I'd seen something like that I would have done the same as you, Rune, and your comment was very tactful and I don't think anyone would feel offended by it. If so, perhaps cuz they're the persons in question, in which case it's better to learn it this way than to be treated the same way with a public reprimand.

I have once seen a post that was straight up insulting, but I was very proud that all of the people that were browsing the thread ignored that person completely, and nothing more was heard of it.

This place has been blessed with very little of the sort, lets keep it that way!:)

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Love your comments, Cuiel Rilvwen, and THANK YOU! I have been ignoring the comebacks and letting people just be themselves, regardless if "sassy", lack of tact or manners.

You say that if you had seen something like that, to stop it at once...that is not my duty here at the Forums, but I was tempted.
That is the Monitors and Webmasters duties.

That is why I started this thread, to perhaps, convey my personal views and make others aware. :gofatty:

PS. I LOVE your personal "quote" - a very famous one! :lol:

[Adunauriel]

Well Rune, as we've been lucky enough to chat before. I'm glad you chose to start this thread.. I at times have cought myself almost getting rude with someone.. I always try to be respectful, as that's how i want to be treaded in return.. I must say that I do prefer to be corrected my PM.. You may still feel bad, but atleast it's not embarassing.. ;)

[Enelya]

Amen!! :thumbs: i myself have also been told off before. though i dont mind them informing me of something its just the way they say it and where, in front of every body else. PMs are definetely the best way of informing some one of some thing

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Monitors and other WOTR Team Members...are you reading all of this? :elfeek:

Well, I am GLAD I started this thread, too :veryhappy: I felt a need.

...and yes, Illuvatar has made it plain to us now in his recent post above, to Private Message someone - but to me, that can also pose a problem, if someone has an attitude, wants to "attack" or "embarass" you..because THEN, it's done privately.

My point here on this thread is: NOT TO ACT that way at all.
Philosophy statement needed here: If you can't say anything nice at all, don't say it.....right??? :thumbs:

[Dawn Noelle]

i think there are times correction is necessary
it maintains order and some people do need that help
but i think the manner in which it's done is important
keeping it private is the best way to go so as not to embarrass anyone, but it can also be done with tact and understanding if the offender had no clue what they were doing.

that said, i'm glad i'm not a moderator
i'm not good with tact and sometimes no matter how nice you are about something, someone will complain

over all this is a great board with good moderators who care for the posters

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Amen...Dawn Noelle, and believe me...you have a great way of expressing yourself and writing - you are very tactful, polite, and have great ideas!

I agree with you wholeheartedly...both on taking the task of being a Moderator (I am sorry...I wrote Monitor before..a Newbie still...:blush:) it would be a time consuming and perhaps, difficult job. I can't speak for them; I can only imagine if I was one.

Thank you so much for your input to this Thread...I value it :)

[Catz]

i agree with all that has been said here.......but i feel i have to add a little from the Mods perspective
firstly.........none of the Mods go out of their way to belittle anyone........its not in our own best interests after all.......we WANT everyone to know how things work.
we are all volunteers, and we do the best we can, but its hard for anyone not to get a tad testy when theyve spent 20 minutes shifting threads that are blatantly in the wrong places and then getting abuse for it, you know? or calling someone on a blatent language violation and being sent rude and abusive PMs lol
now im not suggesting that anyone reading this thread would do such a thing, but remember that the Mods might have just had to deal with that sort of carry on, so cut them a little slack ;)these things are rare........but they do happen
i would however say, that if you truely feel that a mod has treated you rudely, that you talk to them about it, and if you are not satisfied, speak to myself, Lady Arien, Mirkgirl or Illu
but we DO try to remain polite at all times.
Unless its an important infringement(ie: one requiring action) i will usually inform a person on the forum........i do so for two reasons......one is that some people freak out when theyre PMd about something and feel theyre being "told off" and that its a really big deal, and the other is that i feel that things like incorrect forums, inappropriate posts, language(first offences) and so on, are more a matter of information, than chastisement......and its info, not only for the person being addressed, but anyone else reading it...........i will always try to be polite, but as we all know.....its very easy to be misunderstood in text
my feeling is that we are all adults and as such, im not here to "tell you off".....just to inform you if your off track
:catz:

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Catz...no one is blaming the Mods. I surely know from visiting this site, that everything is volunteered and I am sure this site wouldn't be running as smoothly as it is, even existing, if it wasn't for all the dedicated people who devote their personal time. You sound a bit defensive, I'm afraid (cutting slack, being testy, etc.) and more of a lecture here to new readers, than sharing a more postive approach.

That was not my purpose in first posting this thread. It is strictly about wording, the way interpretation is taken, and the immediate responses me and others I have read throughout the Forum, when you make a mistake as a Newbie.

Again, it is about tact and manners. The Thread Title is clear, I think: treating Newbies with a "kit glove" and them making not feel bad when they make mistakes - they are not use to navigating around and we have to get use to all that is within WOTR Community.

Illuvatar and everyone else seems to understand.

[Alatar]

Well i have only been here for a while, and when i first came here i found everyone here to be nice. But when someone points out a mistake in the forum i feel they are just trying to help, even if some people dont put it to nicely.
Also after a while here you notice how the majority of people here are so nice and helpful that it really is a great place to come to:grin:

Oh By the way Rune i like your avatar it is cool:thumbs:

[Lady Arien]

I'm not sure what "inspired" this thread, Rune...you say you've experienced problems with other people on the boards...were they Moderators or simply other forum members? You don't really state the nature of your complaint, and it makes me wonder precisely what you've encountered, and, if, indeed, you have had direct confrontation with a member of this forum, staff or otherwise, it should be reported to myself or one of the other Admins...that's our job. It's the job of the Mods to keep things on track, and while some of them tend to be a bit strong in their desire to maintain the environment of WoTR, personal attacks, via the forums or PM's are forbidden. The tone of of this thread is starting to sound like "members vs moderators," and it seems to be generating the wrong sort of vibe....rallying the troops, if you will. This site was born on the heels of a number of such incidents somewhere else, and we have tried to maintain a policy of the "hands on" approach rather than an admin/moderator dictatorship. For your reference, there is a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section about the forums, and any questions that aren't answered for you there can always be asked of a staff member via email or PM. There have, unfortunately, been incidents of people being removed from the forums for various reasons....if those are the things you came across in your ramblings around the site, it would be best not to jump to conclusions about how members, new and otherwise, are treated by the staff. It's not an easy job to maintain order when you can't look someone in the eye, but we manage to do the best we can, in the most diplomatic way possible. Again, if you personally have experienced the problems you are referring to, I encourage you to let me or any other Admin know. Maybe you can offer an alternative way of dealing with such situations that we have not yet come up with...in this community, anything is possible.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Ofcourse its the mods job to tidy up any disagreements that goes beyond what the forum members can fix themselves. When I said it should be delt with right away, I ofcourse meant that a mod should be notified or the bad post should be reported to a mod...I didn't make that very clear in my last post! I have indeed encountered a member for being insensitive about others feelings, and it's not a good way, tho it evolved into a disgussion which end wasn't unhappy for either. I wouldn't do that again tho, and certainly not to people I know nothing of! Guess I just let my heart take the lead, not always so wise.

I think its really big of people to admit in this particular thread that they might have been a tad too sharp on occasions...not that I've seen it...but very adult indeed! Somehow I don't think anybody need worry so much about the ones that admit to not always being perfect...which indeed noe of us are!

[Fatty]

Well communicating via written words can often be difficult. Sometimes people correcting or advising someone can be a little blunt and other times those being corrected are over sensitive or misinterpret.

I think the balance is pretty good, indeed soemforums I frequent you just get told go read the FAQ and come back when you have etc.

So there is always room for improvement and it is an issue we treat seriously. Mostly, when it does occur it is down to the wrong language being used or turn of phrase.

However, some order is needed and soemtimes saying something publically, especially after private warnings is the only option we have other than banning the person.Thankfully thesecases are rare.

I have to say that I do not frequent the forum much now due to commitments elsewhere on the site, but when I do Iam amzed at the great welcome people get and the help.

Plus remember folks if you really do feel slante or such you can always contact one of the admins or myself. But bear in mind the modeators sometimes have ahard job, with people going off topic and spamming etc. A little bit of give and take works wonders.

Fatty

[Bonos-Girl]

amen Fatty!

i have possibly slightly been a bit sharper than maybe i needed to before on WOTR (sorry, you know who you are!). but the person involved PMed me and we sorted it all out and i promised never to publically humiliate anyone on the forum ever again! it is quite hard sometimes though, sometimes people are so rude you want to be rude back, and even if you try and be polite somehow that tone will slip into your words unintentionally. and sometimes people just misunderstand one another.

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

Certainly, the mods have a job to do, and I know you understand that :) but other forum members may like to give their 2 cent's worth occasionally because the mods can't possibly oversee everything all by themselves... they need the cooperation of other members, so don't feel bad when another member tries to correct you or something... it's all part of learning in life. :grin:

And I agree with BG, sometimes, misunderstandings are bound to happen. Don't take it to heart. However, I do feel that everyone should think twice before posting their comments. I have been told off rather harshly before myself, not a very nice experience. :(
If someone posts something that is really offensive or hurtful and causes public humiliation, you might like to have a private discussion with that person or seek the help and advice of any of the staff members. We'll be most willing to help you :thumbs:

The forums is a place to have fun in, and where freedom of speech is encouraged. To ensure that the forums remains a great place to dwell in, we must all be tolerant to one another, especially since everyone has different attitudes... some may be blunt with their words... some may be more particular in certain areas... some may be bossy... some may be busy-bodies (like me :blush: ) But most of us mean well. :thumbs:
Hope you're still lovin' the forums!

[Rune of Mirkwood]

Great discussions, comments and points given and taken here. My sole intention was spoken sincerely and from the heart, as to observations on a couple of replies I saw and experienced myself. Since signing up and becoming a newbie myself and being proud to be a Silver Subscriber, I just shared my personal thoughts and immdiately, (see Page 1 again,..) I felt I did a good thing. I even asked Illuvatar if he wanted to delete this thread.

It's been an experience and I am sorry everyone, AGAIN, misinterpreted this thread. I DID NOT MEAN for this to go this far and involve all the Monitors and especially, Fatty. He is too busy with being the WebMaster here and as he stated, has far too much to do and maintain.

I guess I can leave, feeling that perhaps something good came out of all of this. Namarie ~ The Rune

[Fatty]

Well, I am very sorry you feel you cannot stay Rune. Iwould say to everyone that you have to be very careful when advising someone. |choose your words carefully, we o not have the benefit of facial expressions or tone when typing in here, so it easy for someoen to misinterpret.

I think users need to have a littl bit of a hard skin in light of this. Also I recommend that moderators word their replies very carefully with some thought to users who may be offended.

PM'ing is the best way, this goes for users just helping newbies as well.

I think enough has been said on this matter and will close this thread for now, I don't visit the forum as often as Iwould like but I hate to see this sort ofthing developing.

Regards

Fatty