Did you know that TOLKIEN LEADS OUR CHILDREN TO SATAN!?!? - check it out!

[Kwijibo]

Christians please note - I am NOT having a go! Check out what I found ...

http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?start=0&catid=3&threadid=26955

This could be a hoax, I'm not sure, but I have seen things very similar to this all over the place, real ones!

If it is true, this guy definately has not read the Sil and obviously is not very up on his Tolkien history - JRR Tolkien was a born and raised a strict Catholic and lived as one for his entire life.

Did you notice the little smilies in the post underneath are bald versions of these - :elfeek: lol
BTW - I'm too new to this place to know exactly where to post this. If any of the mods want to move it to somewhere more appropriate then thank you.

[Nessa]

Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.

Are these people not aware that Tolkien was a devout Catholic? Many people see his works as a basic Christian theme. People tend to do this with lots of things, I read something nearly like this about Harry Potter. :rolleyes:

[Lady Arien]

Sad to say, but someone will always find a satanic reference in something.....and fear and ignorance makes people believe the most outlandish things.....

[A! Elbereth]

I always knew that if you thought about it, LOTR had a secret meaning with God, but NOT LIKE THIS! I can't explain how it did, because those of you who dont believe in what I do, would most likely pick a fight. But I think LOTR did in some way relate to God, but in a good way, but this: this is complete nonsense. Leading them to satan? This does not make sense. If anything, this would be good not bad.

I feel like punching this guy in the face and showing him a thing or two about twisting Tolkiens words, and trust me, I'd burst his ears with words! Argh this really upsets me... I hope he doesnt start to convince people.

With Harry Potter - I believe strongly against Séance's and witchcraft so I dont like it, but Tolkien was a purely good man.

[Kwijibo]

Originally posted by A! Elbereth
With Harry Potter - I believe strongly against Séance's and witchcraft so I dont like it, but Tolkien was a purely good man.

I understand what you're saying, you have a good reason not to like it. It really irritates me when people say that JK Rowling is promoting evil witchery and devil worship in Harry Potter, because you don't have to read the book closely to see that the characters are fighting evil. I've seens loads of interviews with JK Rowling and she has always said that there are no hidden meanings in her books except the fairy tale fight between good and evil. Because they are aimed at children, it's not logical to put hidden meanings in them. The magic and witchcraft are being used for good against the evil magic, similarly in LotR, the armies are being used for good against the evil armies. There are two sides to every story - the good and the evil - and each side uses similar means to get what they want, like magic or armies or enchantments or whatever.

Another thing thats drives me mad is when I see things like 'Harry vs. Frodo' and 'Gandalf vs. Dumbledore'. I haven't got a fave book, I've got three - HP, LotR, and His Dark Material by Philip Pulllman - I love them all for different reasons.

BTW - I'm not trying to get at YOU, A! Elbereth, you just triggered what I said, please don't take offense! :)

[HobbitFriend]

Well, i agree with Albereth on the Harry Potter thing with witchcraft n all... even if it is for "good". :witch:

...and with this article.... i read it and okay, they totally twisted what the book is about! Sauron is NOT God! come on... anyone can see that! Tolkien was a Catholic, or so i hear, so why would he write a book about people destroying God?
and anyway, Sauron forged the One Ring to rule everyone and the poem thing that went with it was: "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them. One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Now, does that sound like something God would say, or Satan?

If Tolkien wrote LOTR to have a religious "background" to it, i would have to say that Sauron would be Satan, the Orks would be his slaves and demons and the Elves would be the angels.

But who really knows what Tolkien meant when he was writing this... What i really think... it's just a great, "real" story aobut Good vs. Evil - nothing more. :evil: :angel:

[A! Elbereth]

Originally posted by Kwijibo

Another thing thats drives me mad is when I see things like 'Harry vs. Frodo' and 'Gandalf vs. Dumbledore'.
Well you know Frodo would have won. :loveyou:
damn sorcerers....verymad

But yes thank you HF. I'm glad to hear that someone else agrees with me. I didnt say there were evil messages in HP, just that to me whats in the book is evil. It has nothing to do with leading people to satan. I just do not feel comfortable letting that stuff in my mind. Its as simple as that.

[HobbitFriend]

i totally agree Elbereth ;)

[Mandin]

To all, greetings.
First, I would like to agree with everyone that has posted so far. The article we were linked to at the start of this thread was outrageous. The person who wrote this charged in blindly and talked about that which he hadn't the slightest clue. His assertion that Sauron is God, and Sauron is talked about badly, and thus, Tolkien is putting God down, is ridiculous. If the man had read the first few pages of the Sil., he would have seen, unless he closed his eyes while he read (a rather hard thing to do) that Illuvatar is, without a shadow of a doubt, both holy and good, and quite and decidedly an all powerful, nothing can phase him, GOD. Melkor and then Sauron are just as clearly portrayed as Satan like figures, and any suggestion otherwise is a purposefull and rather large twisting of Tolkien's words.
Another thing that really distressed me in reading that article was when he started talking about the languages that Tolkien made up. They are, he suggested, codes for devil worshipers to talk their demonic talk without people knowing. Ha ha! Tolkien making up those languages was simply displaying an amazing God given genius.

Hmmm, enough of that. I don't need to rant any longer on that ridiculous article.

Now, to the Harry Potter issue. I wont' say much, and I don't mean to offend anyone. However, in my opinion, there is a very fundimental difference between Potter and LotR. In Potter, things that through the ages have been pounded into people's head as evil, have been exemplified. Witches have always been evil, yet in HP, it's both very good and very bad. Goblins are bankguards. A monster dog is a good guy's pets. Sorcerry is all very good, if used properly. I am going to make an example that may not be fair, but it's all I can think up right now: HP essentially takes the One ring and makes it an instrument of both good and evil, depending on how it is wielded. However, the one ring is evil. Sorcerry and witches are evil. However, HP suggests otherwise, and begins to change people's mind.

I'm not necessarily saying that this will twist people's minds to Satan. It is a pleasant story, in other respects, and well written. Young children, though, should be taught very clearly by their parents so that they do not fall into a detrimental confusion that may arise from these books.
:jester:

[A! Elbereth]

Just to inform you exactly why everyone's gabbering about Harry Potter and evil.

In a strong christian religion, there is belief that reading such things in Harry Potter opens the door for Demons to come into you. By reading it, it welcomes evil things. Of course, this doesnt mean you will be posessed or anything, its just like telling evil things that they're welcome to have a free tour of yourself. :o Its like taking a chance. I think they are trying to say that the books lead satan to them not them being lead to satan. I believe this, and I'm not asking anyone else to.

[Mandin]

Ai! Ai! That's interesting. Hmm.

[Lady Arien]

This thread is not about religion, witchcraft, or Harry Potter, it was started for commentary on the article that Kwijbo pointed to...please remember this....any further discussions about religion, etc. will result in the closure and removal of this thread altogether.

[A! Elbereth]

Whoa! :o No one has been upset about a little drift in subject before... I'm sorry, I was just answering someone's question and comparing the subject with another. I hope I didnt offend you Lady Arien. :elfeek:

But to make everyone happy, Let's get back to subject.

The article was complete nonsense, and I hope that this idiot does not convince anyone. And I especially hope this is the first, only, and last article concerning this. Its appauling! verymad

[Elanor of Lorien]

I think the writer of that article is very wrong. Obviously, he or she has not read up on Tolkien's writings. Hasn't he ever heard of Eru? Why then does the article say that "Sauron is God"? My opinion is, don't write something unless you have adaquate information and research backing you. Tolkien's writings are Christian based although most of his theology is RC based. I've even read that he made up some of it himself. While LOTR is not an allegory, there are underlying themes all over the story.

[Nessa]

Here, here, Elanor! :thumbs:

The person who wrote that article had little or no idea what he or she was speaking about. The fact that he drew a likeness between Sauron and God shows that. People like this look very hard for 'evil' in all sorts of places, I feel pretty bad for this group. They're undoubtedly missing a lot of things in life, and seemingly not in respect for God but in fear of Him. Sad.

[Undomiel]

Originally posted by Kwijibo



. I haven't got a fave book, I've got three - HP, LotR, and His Dark Material by Philip Pulllman - I love them all for different reasons.



Yay! A fellow His Dark Materials fan at last. I'd almost given up hope.

Neway, I think the link is ridiculous. Cant ppl for once just look at books as good stories and not have to see huge ulterior motives in them. It's so stupid, 'specially as Tolkien was a devout Catholic! (I know I'm repeating what has already been sed but I was v. annoyed)

[legolaslover]

That is the stupiest thing I ever heard. I ve heard some stupid things.