Valar left the rest of ME to rot?

[Finrod Felagund]

Here's something I have a hard time reconciling:
It seems that once the Valar had all the First Born in Valinor they let the rest of ME fend for itself even after Morgoth returned and wreaked havoc. They were so worried about wrecking the place and hurting the unborn Men why didn't they come after Men awoke? Weren't they the stewards of all of Arda?

[Skyfiery]

I'm not very sure about this, but what I think is:

1. After the very first war the Valar had with Morgoth (or during the shaping of the world), they grew weary of Morgoth constantly destroying what they built and formed, and so withdrew from M.E to Valinor that they had built.

2. Many have thought that summoning the Elves to Valinor to protect them from Morgoth in M.E was a mistake, 'cause if I recall correctly, the Valar did use some sort of persuasion/force to get the Elves to Valinor, and no good came out of it: that is, from their interfering in the lives and choices of the Firstborn of Iluvatar. So they sort of learnt their lesson and left Men to their own devices.

Of course, I may have recalled incorrectly or explained wrongly, in which case, I must apologize. Hope I've helped, though. :o

Sky

[Hobbit]

Very well brought Sky. You've helped a lot :thumbs:
But eventhough the Valar did had some trouble with keeping the elves at Valinor, I think it's odd that they just abbandoned the edain. I mean, the Valar were appointed to protect Arda with all it's inhabitants, yet they let men go, with an enormous risc of fallin under Morgoth's evil.
That was the opposite of what the Valar where supposed to do

[Gil Galad]

but they knew that the earth would be greatly broken if they went after Morgoth again, and indeed it was when they did overthrow him, and they wished to try to devise another methodof securing ME that wud have less destruction. and as Sky said, after the mistakes of bringing teh elves to valinor, they realised that if they tried to force Edain, which they probably wud have done unintentionally to help them if they went to guide them, it wud have resulted in bad. so they left them to it,

altho, im not sure why after the first overthrow of morgoth, they didnt, especially Orome and Tulkas, go out in great force and destroy the orcs, when they were stilll few, and the Balrogs and Sauron and all the creatures of the enemy

[Gwaihir]

What Sky says is true. Morgoth destroyed much that the Valar made, like the lamps, so they just receded to Valinor. And Men are not Elves; they are mortals. It could turn out worse than with Elves.

But still I don't really understand why either...

[Skyfiery]

Maybe the Valar thought that because of their interaction with the elves, all these hurts came to pass. So they won't have *anything* to do with men, and will just watch M.E. from Valinor, make sure that Morgoth doesn't get *too* out of hand, like try to break the world apart again, or something.

Actually, I'd also like to know...

[Gil Galad]

maybe they just want men to be men and not for them to be influenced by any of the Vala, because any form of influence would be atleast a little bit of control, which would eventually lead to rebellion, which would do no1 anygood.


i dont think that morgoth would try to break the world apart as this would end him and all the vala, because they r all tied to it

[Finrod Felagund]

Here's another point, if it hadn't been for the Noldor coming to ME when they did, Morgoth would have taken over Everything. He had Cirdan and Thingol Hemmed up and would have taken them out eventually but the Strength of the Noldor kept him at bay.
Yes they would have wrecked the place going after His Badness, but they could have helped a little more than just suggesting where to hide
Orome and Tulkas could have helped organize a defense and even helped in the battles. We know how much havok Glaurung and the Balrogs caused. Those little beasites would have cowered in fear from Tulkas. I'm not saying them fight by themselves but they could have given a hand and leveled the playing field a little but NOOO they just stayed behind their impenetrable mountains and shadowy seas twiddling thier thumbs :angry:

Did the Valar just say" Well they didn't accept our invitation to come to Valinor so screw them let them fight Morgoth, even if it is our fault that he got out again" Seems rather childish or at the least irresponsible, but that's what the evidence suggests.
Once they got all comfy behind their mountains in their land of bliss, they just left the rest of ME to Morgoth...verymad

[Tar-Vanimelde]

I don't really remember, but didn't the Valar ask the elves if they wanted to come, amd some said yes? Well, did they ask Men or just ignore them completely? Maybe they felt that they couldn't help Men because they were so different compared to the Valar and Elves. I don't think they were being careless of ME, more cautious than anything else. But in retrospect it was a bad idea, I agree.

[Mirkgirl]

Well firstly the men woke with the first sunrise and the Valar have had enough troubles with elves already to invite another race to Valinor.
But even if it wasn't for this... the men die too soon... the eternal splendour of Valinor is too much for the average mortal being.

As to topic... yes they did.... but I have the idea that it was prepared for later use also... who cares for the ones who said no kind of thing...
from "Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor"
To those lands and forests the Valar seldom came, save only Yavanna and Oromë; and Yavanna would walk there in the shadows, grieving because the growth and promise of the Spring of Arda was stayed. And she set a sleep upon many things that had arisen in the Spring, so that they should not age, but should wait for a time of awakening that yet should be.
from "Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor"
Then for a while the world had moonlight, and many things stirred and woke that had waited long in the sleep of Yavanna.

[Olsonm]

Morgoth was a captive/reformee in Valinor until he stole the Silmarils. The Noldor left immediately after he did. The Valar intervened after the Noldor's war was almost over. We don't know how the Valar would have treated Morgoth's return to ME if the Noldor hadn't rebelledat the same time.

[Gil Galad]

the Noldor had to be punished for the Kinslaying so therefore help could not be given to them by any of the Valar. also they were asked to return to Valinor where teh Valar would deal with everything

if they had of had faith, and not just listen to proud words of feanor,they would have seen that the Valar did not wish to leave the ME, but that the time was not yet ripe for the defeat of the dark vala.


also Finrod, its unlikely that the kingdom of Doriath would have fallen of the Noldor had not come to ME, and treason and fear of treason had not been aroused among the elves