Half Elves and mortality

[Lasgalen]

But when all was spoken, Manwë gave judgement, and he said: 'In this matter the power of doom is given to me. The peril that he ventured for love of the Two Kindreds shall not fall upon Eärendil, nor shall it fall upon Elwing his wife, who entered into peril for love of him; but they shall not walk again ever among Elves or Men in the Outer Lands. And this is my decreee concerning them: To Eärendil and to Elwing, and to their sons, shall be given leave each to choose feely to which kindred their fates shall be joined, and under which kindred they shall be judged.'
This quote gives me the impression that only the descendents of Eärendil had the choice of being mortal or immortal. It sounds like any other Elf/Man relationship would produce mortal children (without choice). By the time of the decree, Dior had already been slain so we can not use him for example. Does anyone else get the same impression? What are your thoughts?

[Lalaith]

As far as I can judge, all of the Half-Elves in existence have been dealt with at this stage...including Elwing herself, of course...

The descendents of Beren and Lúthien and the descendents of Tuor and Idril are the only examples of Man-Elf offspring - it was very rare for a mortal and an immortal to wed - and, so far as I know, these have all been documented (the other being Aragorn/Arwen of course!)... I know that one of Finarfin's sons fell in love with a mortal woman but did not marry her (that's in one of the volumes of HoME, but I can't remember which one...)

Basically, I think what I am trying to say, is that the above proclamation dealt with all of the Half-Elves in existence - there were no others, so there was no need to broaden the statement...

This is just a theory, mind, but it's all I can come up with so far!

[Lasgalen]

What of Prince Imrahil? He has Elf blood in his line. Apparently they were not given choice.

[Lalaith]

Ooooooh. Good point - I had quite forgotten about that... Mithrellas, one of Nimrodel's handmaidens, was 'taken to wife', as Tolkien puts it, by a Prince of Dol Amroth...

Now, I am baffled! lol

My only response is that maybe cos she wasn't one of the High Elves (I think she may have been a lesser Silvan Elf) the choice wasn't given. In any case, she left her husband and children so would have had very little to do with the children's upbringing, thereby minimising Elvish influence... Just a guess, though...

[Vanyë]

i think its based on an unconcious choice made by the half -elf or maybe by the way of upbringing say by the way of an elf the half elf would want to live forever, whereas by being brought up by a mortal would give you a mortalish sense of life and the elven blood in them would just be seen in the persons goodness and beauty than the age.

that's what i think.;)

[Narya]

Well in the lord of the rings...arwen seems to "choose" a mortal life by marrying aragorn, so it must be a decision the half elf can make for themselves...but still the prince of dol amroth....maybe only 50% elves/50% mortals can make the choice, but if u have more than 50% of one or the other u cannot choose? Still an interesting question... Maybe it's just one of those mysteries Tolkein left for us to ponder...

[Lasgalen]

Only the descendents of Earendil had the choice. That was Manwë's decree. I don't know at exactly which point Arwen made her choice, but she did choose to be counted among Men.

[Vanyë]

i think she chose when she said i choose a mortal life. Cause at the choice of having to live with out the one person you truly love, would be nothing compared to the one life you'll be able live.

i also agree with Narya;)

[Vanyë]

but being mortal sucks because theres no absolute way of knowing if you'll ever see them again.

i'm thinking to myself so pay no attention to this:)

[Vanyë]

Where do half elves go when they die if they've not made a choice by then? Hmmm...:idea:

[Lasgalen]

I suspect if they have not made a choice that they are counted among Men. But that is just a guess. It may depend on how they died. :huh:

[Vanyë]

probably.

[Estell]

There is an excellent if rather long-winded explanation right here. Clears up all the controversy with excerpts from the Letters and a small bit of logical connections.

http://www.barrowdowns.com/faq_halfelves.asp

[Lasgalen]

Wow. Great find. I have been to BarrowDowns before, but never noticed that. Thanks Estell.