Olde English (Also known as Rohirric)

[Wilwarin]

Gódne dæg and welcumen!

Are there any other people out there who know, or are learning Olde English? I do know there are at least three people on this forum who know it a little besides me. I thought I would just start a thread about it, since it IS a language used in LotR.

I've been studying Olde English since....well, since TTT came out I think. I was hooked by the Olde English songs in the sountrack, and I decided I wanted to learn it (I seem to be a sucker for old, out-dated or fictional languages that you really can't use in this modern world :P ). I find it to be a very interesting language. So much different than Modern English! And much harder to learn I think. I must admit that my grasp of Olde English is elementary to the extream! I'm not even sure if the phrase above is correct! But I really want to learn the language.

So come forward, guys. How long have you been learning Olde English? How much do you kow? Maybe we can all help eachother learn it a little better. I would love to know some web sites that offer free courses and material (if there is such a thing).

[Cuiel Rilwen]

How cool that you made this thread! And know what...your greeting sounds like norwegian, which would be

God dag og velkommen!

Is that cool or what!:cool:

[Wilwarin]

Hey that is pretty cool. I may not be too hard for you to learn Olde English then. I wonder how similar the grammar is?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

You mean I gotta pick it up so I can tell ya?lol Well I would if I was two persons...or maybe I should visit that clone- thread...I've been meaning to...say do they make clones of yourself as well as Orli- clones? Could really come in handy!

Seriously I would! Maybe when the guide is done...sometime!:) It sounds real cool...you said it descended from german languages, right? Which norwegian also did...and I have learnt german way back when I was in school...so maybe I could absorb some olde english too!

[Wilwarin]

lol that would be handy. Well, maybe you'll be able to pick up some OE from the people who post in this thread........if they ever come around that is. (I know I know, give them time ;) )

[Elfdaughter]

wil...is there anything you DON'T know? Old English, Sindarin... blimey!

I know a little Old English...not much, but enough to help translate some stuff. I know my name (Averil in reality, which means basically 'boar battle') comes from a compound of the Old English 'eofor' (boar) and 'hild' (battle) and in Old English it would be 'Everild'.

[Wilwarin]

That's pretty neat, Elfdaughter. And yes there are lots of things I don't know! Like I don't really know Old English very well, I only just started learning it a while back and haven't had much time to devote to it. That's why I posted this thread, so that maybe I could find out a few things from people who know it better than I do. Of course, so far none of those people have showed up! lol

[Cuiel Rilwen]

That's soo cool...can I troubble you to translate my name? I have two...the first one literally means "life", and the second means "shining" or "brilliant". Only if you want to, no preasure!:)

[Gollumhead]

I have a phrase I want translated. I have been wondering about it for some time. How would you translate - "That badger is eating my last blueberry pancake!" Thanks I sure do appreciate it.

[Wilwarin]

lol I don't know Olde English that well! Maybe someone else here does though. Anyone?

You are just kidding, right? :(

[Elfdaughter]

hmm...Gollumhead...I REALLY hope you are joking....lol Anyway, there's no way I could translate that...far too advanced!

Cuiel...let's see...'life' can be translated in a number of ways...the best one I can find (if you mean life as in 'to live') is 'ealdor'

'Shining' or 'Brilliant' - a bit more difficult. I don't know 'brilliant', but 'shining' is 'beorht'

When saying these, remeber that the stress is on the first syllable. 'A' is a pure vowel, as is 'E', which is pronounced the same as in the NE (New English) 'Bed'.

Hope that helps!

Here's one I translated myself...can someone check it for errors?

'Ege nanwuht, ond ge cunnan ge-reccan se middangeard.'
Fear nothing, and you can control the world.

[Wilwarin]

Hey that's pretty good, though I can't tell you if it's correct or not! I'm only just learning.

How long have you been studying OE Elfdaughter? I know Lady Aerowen knows it almost fluently. I aught to tell her this thread is here.....

[Elfdaughter]

Er...not long...just a couple of months, really...but that's been on and off because of exams.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Thats real cool Elfdaughter...thanx a bunch! I'll have to practice pronouncing it!;)

[Elfdaughter]

No prob!

[Wilwarin]

I started learning several months ago (can't remmber exactly how many) though I haven't had the time to lately to work on it much.

[Gollumhead]

O.k. O.k what about "That badger is eating something"... anything.... It really doesn't have to be a blueberry pancake... I just added that for the fun of it..... Thanks...

[Elfdaughter]

There's no word that I can find for 'Badger'...and I've looked everywhere!

How about 'That animal eats anything'? It's the closest I could get!
'þæt deor brucan awhit' (I think it's slightly off....:( )

[Gollumhead]

I really appreciate that translation... I feel very confident that it will be a close enough translation to work for what I need. ( I doubt that the badger will understand anyway!)

hmmm...... sounding out the words will be a bit hard though not being one who knows the phonetics of olde english.....

oh well, I shouldn't worry..... I should probably just shoot the silly thing or give up eating my pancakes on the patio...


THanks...

Gollumhead:cool: roflmao ;) :p :grin:

[Wilwarin]

You're funny Gollumhead.

[Elfdaughter]

Yeeesss.......anyway....lol

[Shieldmaiden]

Hey, is it hard to learn Old English? :grin:

[Elfdaughter]

Not really. It's very similar to Modern English in it's grammar. Check out this thread ( http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5007 )

For Rohirric courses.

This might help:

http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/OEsteps/index.html This isn't complete, so I would suggest going to the library to look for books. You can always order them if they don't have any.

[Shieldmaiden]

Thanks! :thumbs: I'll look for books someday when I can finally drive... :grin:

[Elfdaughter]

Just keep searching on the internet...you'll get there!

[Mánaskin]

Góða kvöldið

i would like to learn Old English, still im not so good in Modern English heh......but i know Old Icelandic well im from Iceland so i have to study it

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Well hello...how nice to meet another member from the high north! Old Icelandic and Old Norwegian are prob very similar...and when reading some of Wils sentences in Old English I find there are many similar words! Maybe it won't be as difficoult as you think!:)

[Mánaskin]

i hope that and it would be great then

[Elfdaughter]

Yeah, Old English took many words from the Vikings. You'd probably find (not being able to speak norwegian or Icelandic myself!) that the languages are similar in parts. Good luck!!

[Wilwarin]

Hey guys! Just been finding a little bit of time to practice my Old English. I thought it would be fun to try and translate all the OE names in M.E. I'm going to post some of the more common ones here. This is just so I can get some practice translating OE. Ignore me if you find it boring. :p


First, Théoden. It means "cheif of a tribe, ruler"

Éomund: I'm gessing this means "horse protector", though I'm not positive.

Éomer: "famous horse" ?

Éowyn: "horse-joy"

Brego: "ruler, cheif" (interesting, "brego" in Sindarin means "wild". Both names fit the horse in the movie.)

Hama: "cricket"

Eorl: "brave man"

Arod: "quick"

Hasufel: "dusky-grey hide" (which means that Aragorn's horse should have been the grey one, but he got a brown horse in the movie. Ah well.)

That's all for now. I'm still translating the rest.

Hey, we should start a thread "Find out what you name is in Rohiric".

[Alcarohtar]

That will be cool :grin:

[Aerandir]

do you guys translate stuff into olde english? if you do could you translate wolf friend into it? thanks


-Aera

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Originally posted by Wilwarin
Hey, we should start a thread "Find out what you name is in Rohiric". [/B]

Thats a great idea, Wil!:thumbs: The name translations are fab!

[Mánalinya]

That would be awsome! I've been reading over this thread, and some sites about Old English, and I think it would be fun to learn. If only I had time....

[Wilwarin]

Yes, I would love to do that, but I have to get a good dictionary first.

Aera, I'll get back to you on that translation. I have to find the words first. If anyone else knows what "wolf friend" is in OE please speak up! I don't want to be the only one here doing anything!lol

Oh and Elfduaghter, I just happened to find the OE word for "badger"! It is "brocc". So.......just thought I would let you know :)

[Elfdaughter]

Ah, of course!! Well done!

Aerandir... Wolf friend is wulfgehola

Well, I'll start it up!

[Wilwarin]

Can you give the pronunciation for that Elfduaghter? I know how to pronounce OE, but I'm sure everyone can't, and some of it is pretty tricky.

[Elfdaughter]

Sure! You're right, it is quite tricky. OK I'll break it into parts....Wulfgehola is pronounced:

Wulf (u pronounced as the u in 'bull' )
ge (pronounced closer to a NE 'y': )
ho (o as in 'body' )
la (a as in 'bad' (southern) )

[Cuiel Rilwen]

This is just fab! Is the "w" pronounced like english "want" or like german "warheit"? Also can you explain further about the "ge" I didn't quite understand...perhaps compare to some other word...? Gee I wish my day had 48 hours!:thumbs:

[Alcarohtar]

You did a great job translating my name, ED. But what about the pronunciation?

Mærebeo & Beohrteorl.

[Wilwarin]

Yes, ED, from now on can you provid the pronunciations with everything you translate? It's a lot easier for us that way. Thanks!

I would suggest formatting the pronunciations the same way as I do with Elvish, like this:

Wulfgehola [WULF-yeh-hah-lah] This way you spell out each sillable the way you would pronounce it. Don't forget to indicate stress with all caps.

[Elfdaughter]

:blush: I'm sorry...I didn't think!! Oh, and yes, W is pronounced like the english, for example 'war'. Ge is like the english 'y' in 'year'.

OK then..

Mærebeo & Beohrteorl.

[MA-reh-beh-o] and [BEH-ort-ey-orl.]

That better?

[Wilwarin]

Yes, much better ;) A lot easier to understand too. :thumbs:

[Alcarohtar]

Thank you very much, ED.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Very nice! How great is this language forum, I just luuuv it!;)

[Elfdaughter]

OK! I'll do that in future.

[Wilwarin]

Hey does anyone know the OE word for "praise"? I can't seem to find it in my dictionary (dumb dictionary, must get a better one). I need the imperitive verb and the noun. Thanks in advance to whoever finds it.

Oh! Also, the word for "door", can't find that one either :p

[Elfdaughter]

herigean [HER-ig-ayan] - to praise. I couldn't find the noun.

duru [DUR-RUH] Door.

[Wilwarin]

Hey thanks ED. Is that the imperitive form of the verb? Just checking, cuz I need the imperitive form.

Also, isn't a "g" before an "e' pronounced like an NE "y"?

[Elfdaughter]

Sorry, I still get a bit confused on pronunciation sometimes!

Ah, no... if you want the imperative it would be:

here (HAIR-eh)

Found the noun!!

preise - very similar (PRE-se)

[Wilwarin]

OK, thanks a lot! :thumbs:

[Elfdaughter]

Not a prob!

[Wilwarin]

Hey! I'm looking for a few OE words (again! Still haven't got a new dictionary. Might get one for Christmas though) Anyway, here are the words:

"Story teller"
"Writer"
"Three writers"

If ED or anyone else can find thee for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[Elfdaughter]

Sorry, wil... can't find those, for some odd reason....

[Wilwarin]

That's Ok ED. I have since found them in the new dictionary I got for Christmas. Thanks anyway.

[Elfdaughter]

Yeah, cos your dictionary is probably better than mine....

Anyway, Eomund:

Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre,
mod sceal þe mare þe ure maegen lytlað.

Will shall be the firmer, hearts the braver,
spirits the greater, as our strength wanes.

[Eomund]

yes, yes, yes but what about the next one i posted in rohirric thread(not this one)

[Elfdaughter]

Done! you little......

[Eomund]

me little what.

[Elfdaughter]

rascal! Honestly, some people! I'm sorry about not translating it sooner, but I've been caught up in uni work, so you'll have to wait a bit longer.

[Eomund]

aaaahhhh....
Why do you post everything three times so i get messed up with threads?

[Elfdaughter]

To confuse you!! I take it it worked then?? lol

[Eomund]

aaaargghhhh.... im must post everywhere the same...b

[Wilwarin]

ED. I know yer a bit busy with Eomunds enormous requests, so don't feel pressured to do this until you have a chance.
I was wondering if you could translate a phrase for a story I am writing. I'm not quite sure how I want the phrase to go yet, so I will post a few variations and pick the one I like best.

"Murderer of his own people"

"Slayer of his own kin"

"He comited murder on his own brethren"

Any variations of those that you can think of might work too. Something about a guy who has murdered some of his own people. I want it sound kind of like a brand that he must live in shame with. And if at all possible, make the "murder/murderer" part sound like a good name. Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance. And again, do take your time, I'm in no rush. :)

[Eomund]

and i have also things that can wait so help Wil.
What ya doing if i can ask?

[Elfdaughter]

Right now? I'm busy doing uni assignments. I'll get those done for you by the end of the week, Wil.

[Eomund]

.... so for tommorrow and want then beowulf or not ?

[Wilwarin]

No problem ED. Take your time. I'm in no hurry.

Eomund. Can I ask you to please not post Beowulf in the forum? It is very long and really unecesary to translate here, as it has been translated and published numerous times already. I also ask that you stop posting requests for tranlastions of large sections of OE text. This is a Tolkien languages forum, and even though OE is a language of Middle-earth, the Battle of Maldon and Beowulf are not from Middle-earth. All that aside, they simply take up too much room on the forums and no one wants to sit there and read through them. I would appreciate it if you kept your requests to simple phrases that you would like to learn. The translations of OE text can be found in books and online, there is no need for anyone to translate them again here. ED, if you still would like to challenge yourself with these translations, then please continue through PM's so we don't clutter up these threads.
Thanks a lot guys.

[Eomund]

Ok, understood.
I would like now anyway "the living one that is dead."

It makes no sense but I would want it into one thing.

[Elfdaughter]

Thanks Wil. I was kinda getting fed up with them!!

Murderer of his own people" Morþor of his agan cynn.
[MOR-thor of his AG-an KI-nn]

"Slayer of his own kin" - Bana of his agan cynn.
[BA-na of his AG-an KI-nn]

"He comited murder on his own brethren" - He cnodan morþor on his agan cyþþ.
[HEY NO-dan MOR-thor on his AG-an KI-th]


Eomund: Like a vampire, perhaps?
The living one that is dead. - Se cwic an þæt is dead.

[se (Voiceless 's') KW-ik an TH-at is DE-ad.]

[Eomund]

maybe , thanks.

[Mánaskin]

can you transilate "mistic forest" for me? or misteryus or something

[Wilwarin]

Thank you very much ED! I think one of those will work well.

[Elfdaughter]

No probs!!

Manaskin: misterie weald
[MIS-ter-e WE-ald]

[Eomund]

Andc also can yuo search for me " king of the knights" or "knightly king" or sonething like that!

[Wilwarin]

ED. Does your OE dictionary have a word for "Troll" or "Goblin"? Mine doen't. Also any word for "elf" that you can find. Or all the words for "elf" you can find, since there may be more than one, I would like to choose. The same goes for the others as well. Thanks in advance.

[Elfdaughter]

Eomund,

Cyning of cempa

[KIN-ing of KEM-pa]
(lit. King of warriors)

Elf - Ylfe, aelf
[IL-feh] [AY-elf]

Orcs - Orcneas
[ORK-ne-as].

Troll
þyrs
[THY-rs]

Both of these are taken from Beowulf,lines 112-113, I think.

[Eomund]

Thank you and i dont have anything i could call a dictionary here (im not at home) but i think that there was a third elf aswell!!!

[Elfdaughter]

Oh yeah... sorry, I missed that one, but technically, it's more of a name...

Aelf
[EH-lf]

[Eomund]

And how did i know it without dictionary???... i remembered. Still much work to catch up?

[Elfdaughter]

Oh yeah... tons. Especially after the Rent-a-don (fencing thing) over the week-end. I remembered the other ones as well, you know. I don't need a dictionary for every word!! lol

[Eomund]

i know, i know, i know,

you must rent a don ..... what is that rent-a-don.

[Elfdaughter]

Well, a 'Don' - a master of fencing, usually someone who has been fencing for a very long time and is one of the best, is 'rented' to come and give lessons to other fencers over a weekend. It's a very intensive course in fencing, and it's all to do with learning theory, and fighting!

[Wilwarin]

Thanks ED.
Is there one word in OE that means "sea-elf" or "wood-elf"?

[Elfdaughter]

I've managed to find this:

wuduelfen - wood elf
[WU-do-elf-en]

sǽælfen - Sea-elf
[SEY-elf-en]

[Wilwarin]

Oh good, thanks! :thumbs:

Also, if I can bother you one more time :grin: Can you find any word that refers to a pixie or a mischievous elf-type creature? I know in OE that would just be a regular elf, but can you find anything else? The dictionary I have only list more every day things, and doesn't have things like elves and trolls and pixies.

Thanks in advance if you find anything.

[Elfdaughter]

OK!

Well, a pixie is 'Pucelas' (where Shakespeare's 'Puck' in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' comes from, I assume.)

[PUK-eh-las]

[Wilwarin]

Ah ok. Thanks! That will work. (I'm writing story and I want all the place names and character names to be in OE).

[Elfdaughter]

Not a prob! Glad I could help!

[Eomund]

You can help everyone!!!!!!! Thanks for everything you have done for me.....

[Elfdaughter]

That's OK. Even if some of it was eight pages long.... lol!!

[Eomund]

good grief, i didnt want to kill you...

[Elfdaughter]

Uh-huh. If you say so..... lol

[Eomund]

nooooo i was lying... loll lol lol

[Elfdaughter]

Yeah.... I know!! lol

[Eomund]

we aren ow off topic and as insant i would want you to translate "stupid as a tree"



(goes to one in my class)

[Elfdaughter]

Fair enough! Thanks for getting back on topic!!

Dobian gelíce ácbéam.

[DO-be-an GEL-ee-keh AK-bee-am]

[Eomund]

and maybe shorter if you can.... for christ out loud i cant remember that.....

[Elfdaughter]

lol... OK, lets see....

Dobian wesende beam

[DOH-be-an WES-end-eh BE-eem]

That better?

[Eomund]

yes....lol

[Elfdaughter]

Good! Always glad to help!

[Eomund]

at least one thread where we can talk peacefully... -peaceful talker- please.....

[Elfdaughter]

Well, it's the only thread you don't try to kill off everyone!! lol

[Eomund]

why cant i do it......

(offtopic) contin with pms.....

[Elfdaughter]

did yiu get my last one?

Right, back on topic: anyone want anythig else translating?

[Eomund]

i need "water"

[Wilwarin]

Water = "wæter" but if it's water to drink then "wæterdrinc"

Sorry ED. Just happened to be here and thought I wold do this one. :)

[Elfdaughter]

That's OK, Wil!! :)

[Eomund]

and spelled....

[Elfdaughter]

Do you mean pronounced?


wæter - [WEY-ter]

wæterdrinc - [WEY-ter-drink]

[Eomund]

yes...my dictionary gave also lagustream but i asked for there isnt written how to pronounce.....

[Elfdaughter]

OK... well, lagustream would be pronounced

[LAG-oo-strem]

Hope that helps........

[Eomund]

yes....great help.....i hate my dictionary.....

[Elfdaughter]

Yeah, I'm looking for a new one. Might go into town this afternoon.

[Niliathiel]

Hullo out there,

Is anyone able to translate those lines from the LotR into Old English?

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day´s rising
He rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended;
Over death, over dread, over doom lifted
Out of loss, out of life unto long glory.

Would be cool, if someone could help me with this....
Thanks!

Nili
:dragon:

[Elfdaughter]

give me a little time to do it, but I should be able to have it up for you tonight.

[Niliathiel]

Oh wow, thanks a lot, Elfdaughter! I need it for a fanfiction / fantasy story and the point where I´d like to bring this in is still a far way off, so take your time.
Nili

[Elfdaughter]

OK, thanks. I'll see what I can do for you.

[Elfdaughter]

á aet inca, á aet nifol, æt anginn
He áríd áwrecan innan sun, sweord ábregdan.
Hopian he ǽled, ond in hopian ended;
ábúfan lífgedál, ábúfan þracian, ábúfan nearu geaforod,
á aet álǽnes, á aet líf innan lange indryhtu.

Away from doubt, away from dark, to rising of sun
He rode singing in sun, sword unsheathing.
Hope he kindled, and in hope ended;
over death, over dread, over doom lifted (up)
away from loss, away from life, into long praise.

It's not exact, but that's the closest I can get it.

But shouldn't it be 'to day's ENDING?' If so, substitute 'dæg geændung' for 'anginn'.

[Niliathiel]

Wow!!! Thanks a lot!!! :whoohoo: Absolutely cool I whish I could do that... I took a guide to OE home from the library of my university today. Heard, it´s easier to learn for those with German as a mother language *lol* Well, let´s hope that.

Uhm... no, I took those lines from the lament over Théoden, it not “day´s ending”

A little question. There are some questionmarks in the text, I suppose the site didn´t get one of the symbols correctly but the “ae” thing is shown correctly and as well this thing called “thorn” (isn´t it?) so what are the symbols that are replaced by the questionmarks? (like in the third line: “?led”) Are they those other kinds of “th”- thingies? One of these? --> Ð ð
But thanks once more for the translation!!!

[Elfdaughter]

that's the ae thing with an accent over it.

[Niliathiel]

Where did you learn OE, Elfdaughter? Are there any books / websites whatsoever you could recommend?

[Elfdaughter]

Well, I actually learnt it through a number of sites, umm....there's links in one of the sticky threads, I think...

Yip, here it is. Thanks to Wilwarin for putting this post together.

http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showpost.php?p=313544&postcount=7