Seven Sons of Feanor, Seven Deadly Sins

[Finrod Felagund]

Is there a connection?
Lust:Celegorm
Rage:Caranthir
Pride:Curufin
Envy and Greed: take your pick
I'm at a loss for Gluttony and Sloth... but there are some paralells.
Thoughts, comments?

[Lasgalen]

Sloth can be the twin that slept on the boat and got burned up.

I don't see Maglor fitting any of those. But other than him, I do see the connection.

[Morgoth]

I don't think you've thought it through very well,
sure its easy to find 5 but then there is 7 isn't there.

its a nice idea saddly its not quite there is it

[Ceri Bloom]

well why don't you help out mor since you have so much knowledge? how do you see it then?

[Morgoth]

no need to get angry.
your what 14-15 years old and you come and say something like that,
1 you become a hypocrite straight away since you have shown no insight what so ever in your last post, which I believe is something your trying to aim at me.
2 you have totally misjudged the situation, I don't need to show insight to prove the theory wrong, I mealy have to say it doesn't work
3 until you prove to me you have a great deal of knowledge in these matters try in future not to take such a sarcastic tone with me.
Tip- you will learn nothing by being rude and impolite

[Ceri Bloom]

i didn't mean it like that i was merely trying to help out thats all! maybe i should have out some smilies in my last post to show that, i don't know...but im very sorry if i upset you at all moroth please forgive me :blush:

[Morgoth]

no no no I'm not upset, I see you meant no disrespect, and for you to say that shows me your a bigger person than I first thought, and indeed I respect you allot more now :)

[Ceri Bloom]

thank you, i really meant no harm, i can see, that reading it now it did sound a bit rude, and very unlike me ;)

but i cant find a word toplace Maglor under, because he was such a loner lol

[Morgoth]

I would not go far as to say he was a loner anymore than maedhros was, he was a singer and renowned for it,
to be renowned you must perform and that would put you amoung people, so I'm not sure if you can class him as that, unless someone can find some text which i have over looked

[Ceri Bloom]

i don't remember anything, it was just mentioned a couple of times, when singing was talked about, Maedros was prabably the most ruthles...would that be the right word to use?

[Morgoth]

no I would say far from it Maedhros always repented the oath, and he tryed to unite the houses,
remember the Union of Maedhros.
its said that only he and maybe maglor repented the oath,
this is maybe why they were the only 2 of the brothers who did not fall in the 3 kin slayings

[Ceri Bloom]

that is right thank you for reminding me :) i haven't read the book in the last month or so my mind is slipping....

but i agree with some of the others that finrod came up with

[Morgoth]

but the list is floored
Curufin as pride no thats no good
the only time he showed anger throu his pride was when he was dismounted from his horse by beren, but 1 instance....
I could give 1 and more instances of pride from every other brother and also almost every other one of his kin.

and celegorm as lust, This is a bad jugment call. I can only think this came from him wanting to take luthien, this had nothing to do with lust, he wanted to use the power of thingol in he attempts to forful his oath, the best way to do that is to marry into his family, then to slowly take power, like he did to Finrod Felagund and to Orodreth at Nargothrond. do not take his actions as lust, he did what he did for power

[Ceri Bloom]

okey point taken :grin: what would you put them as?

[Morgoth]

I would not give them any of the 7 deadly sins as names,
if you give me 20 minutes, I'll go and get my books and find there proper named meanings cos Tolkien give them to the sons

[Ceri Bloom]

okey dokey then :p cos i really would like to know

[Morgoth]

ok here we go. here is a direct quote from the good book its self

The seven sons of Féanor were Maedhros the tall; Maglor the mighty singer, whose voice was heard far over land and sea; Celegorm the fair, and Caranthir the dark; Curufin the crafty, who inherited most his father's skill of hand; and the youngest Amrod and Amras, who were twin brothers, alike in mood and face. In later days they were great hunters in the woods of Middle-earth; and a hunter also was Celegorm, who in Valinor was a friend of Oromé, and often followed the Vala's horn.

this took some time to copy so I hope your happy now lol

[Ceri Bloom]

oooh i remember that! ya i see what you mean now but if you had to pick one word to describe each of them which ones would you pick? :huh: :(

( lol yes im very grateful for that morgoth lol )

[Finrod Felagund]

No need to be condescending, I was merely pointing out some similatities and trying to start a discussion.

If I'm not mistaken, Curufin also had harsh words for Thingol, basically insulting his heritage and thinking he was better than Thingol because he had lived in Valinor. What he said may have been true but his pride/arrogance got in the way and made an enemy of an Elf King who had been fighting Morgoth and/or his toadies centuries before the Noldor arrived. Basically his pride ruined ANY possible chance for a much needed alliance. If I come into someones back yard, I politely ask if I can play, not pick up a ball and throw it through the window and tell the person it's my right because I am enlightened.
Lust comes in many forms. It is a bad judgement call to think that Celegorm's lust was only for Luthien physically. The whole usurping of Finrod's throne episode is a study in lust for power.

[Ceri Bloom]

like i said, i mainly agree with you finrod ;)

im hanging up my discussion tools now, se ya round :wave:

[Undomiel]

see your point Finrod :thumbs: I have no great liking for some the sons of Feanor. Amrod and Amras i didnt mind. I actually thought Maethros was a good leader and he always ended up being the mediator it seems to me but i just could not stand Celegorm, Caranthir and Curufin!!!! I expect you could get the 7 sins just from those three. They were all greedy, proud, lustful, arrogant and jealous of others. I have to say i also dislike Feanor himself intensely.

[Gil Galad]

its posible that thats how they started out, as physical incarnations of the sins, but then over the years and rewritings they got changed to more redemnable characters

[Undomiel]

I dont think Tolkien ever intended them to be embodiments of the sins. I just think that in some ways it fits in with some of the things they did.

[Radagast]

Well... Im not quite sure... but its an interesting point.

[Evenstar]

I think if they were meant to resemble the sins then it would be more obvious who was who. I think it's just a strange coincidence. :p

[Elfdaughter]

One of the meanings of Maedhros’ name is 'a glint of metal' if that's any help....