Comparison of Evils

[Algamesh]

One of the first encounters that our young hoobits experience with Evil comes from their meeting with Old Man Willow. He is described as possessing a black heart and seems to delight in the misery of others ...

Willow was evidently Evil through and through but do you think his quality of Evil is the same as ... say, a RingWraith? The Dark Lord?

[Sindarin]

They're evil, yet they're evil in their own way. :evil:

[Bawax]

i think the Nazgul and Sauron were evil for a purpose, old man willow was just evil for fun, there was no real reason for willow to be evil but Sauron and the Nazgul were craving for power and stuff. :)

[Ringwraith]

The Ringwraiths were once men, so I don't beleive they were evil by nature. Perhaps Sauron corrupted them to become evil, and Sauron's influence was of such magnitude that good and kindess was nothing more but a disgusting feeling to the Ringwraiths.

[Orc]

I don't think the Nazgul started as evil to begin with, but they possessed the flaw (or sin depending how you look at it) of greed. Their greed led them to the rings offered by Sauron, which aided in their corruption and path to evil.

Treebead describes Old Man Willow as having a bad heart, and basically goes on to infer that he's rotten to the core and always has been.

There is a distinct difference between the two types of evil. The story of the Nazgul is a commonly tought lesson that greed, sometimes even for good purposes, can lead to corruption and evil. While Old Man Willow represents that there is evil in the world that simply exsists on it's own accord, and should be avoided, or can only be overcome by good (i.e. Bombadil)

[Catz]

very well put Orc:thumbs: and this is another area where Tolkiens religious beliefs are woven into the fabric of the story, in the sense that Catholics (and most Christians) hold that evil can be caused by the corruption of good men but that it also has its own existance...in that belief system evil is a reality of its own...
:catz:

[Sindarin]

Very true indeed.

[Pil]

What always struck me in TTT was when legolas talks of how he can sense darkness in the heart of fangorn and treebeard talks of how old man willow is a black hearted huorn. They are an evil that exists from nature itself...nothing corrupted them or twisted them to its will...they exist without anyother assistance. can ANYTHING be perfect we ask...even nature? :huh: :read: :mmmm:

[Catz]

yeah Pil thats what i mean....the Catholic Church still holds the doctrine of original sin....which means that all people are born tainted and must then have that taint of sin removed by baptism. and that i think is what JRR was referring back to in the integral evil of OMW.
:catz:

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

I remember a similar topic brought up in the "Redeamablity of Orcs" thread, inherent and/or pure evil.

I always saw Old Man Willow as more "grumpy old fart" instead of sinister huorn. I don't quite know why, just a feeling.

The Nazgul seem to be more a representation, or herald for lack of a better term, for a greater evil (i.e. Sauron). But then again, the Nazgul are to Sauron as Sauron was to Morgoth. Ultimately, I believe there is one origin of evil personified by one main being, Melkor.

What I like most about Tolkien's works are the realistic quality they have to them. There are characters with depth, and this makes it difficult to place certain people under the evil/good catagories. There is the overall Good vs. Evil theme underlying Tolkien's stories, but within this grand scale there are individuals who seem to go beyond these two characteristics, just like in the real world.

But back on topic, I like the comparison of Morgoth and Sauron at their height of power. I personally believe Morgoth was far greater than Sauron was at each of their respected evil "apexes", though both were equally as sinister.

Gollum as compared to Boromir would be an interesting comparison indeed.

[Pil]

Oh leave boromir outta this thread...he's hardly the ultimate evil! *pil gives sean bean big...imaginary...hug* mecry

[Orofacion of the Vanyar]

Aw, it's ok Pil I was referring to Boromir being the ultimate evil. I was only pointing out how even one of the Nine Walkers had the potential to do evil, even slight evil. I love Boromir, he's one of my most favorite characters that Tolkien created.

Come here...

*Hugs Pil*:grin:

[Catz]

Awwwww...lol
actually thats an interesting comparison tho...(sorry Pil)
both Boromir and Gollum were taken by the ring, and both redeemed themselves with their lives...yet only Boromir was aware and actively sought redemption....but was that only because he had only a little contact with the ring?
I suspect that if he'd possessed it, he would not have done so...tho thats purest speculation.....
:catz:

[Pil]

*hugs back* thanx ;)

:p

I agree with :catz: that boromir would have been a force to contend with if he had actually posessed the ring... :(

[Ringwraith]

Had Boromir ever taken the ring in his hands, I'm sure he would have very quickly fallen under its controle and become a slave of its will. I mean this is what I imagine, since the mere presence of the Ring had great effect on him.

The funny thing is that reading the book made me dislike Boromir, but watching the movie made me love him. And now he's one of my personal favourites too.