IronHills Dwarf
January 10th,2004, 09:05 AM
Elven Swords
A Fan's justification for the designs found in the theatrical portrayal of The Lord of the Rings
or
The Curved V. Straight Debate
An Author's note:
Firstly I would like to say that the following is only my attempt to reconcile the design of the Elven swords as portrayed in Peter Jackson's film adaptation of The Lord of the Rings with Tolkien's writings, as well as settling my mind as to how the varying styles of Elven blades shown in the films might have come into being. In no way am I trying to represent what I have written as "Tolkien's intent" or the reasoning used by the WETA department who designed and crafted the film swords. It is solely my own speculation. Getting away from the dull drudgery of disclaimers I will add that I have noted my quotations. Thus the reader will find the notes at the end on the work and be able to find the passages and the surrounding text in their own copy of the appropriate book. Lastly I will say that my knowledge of swords is not as great as I would like, and I ask forgiveness if anything contain in the text below is incorrect and thus written in ignorance. I would also appreciate comments on the work. I am afraid that do to the thousand-words-per-post limitation, I had to split the text over three posts. Just read from the end of one post right into the next.
The Debate
It is recorded in the Silmarillion that the Elves first smithied swords in Aman under the instigation of Melkor. The first clue as to the nature of these swords is this.
"But Fëanor followed him, and at the door of the king's house he stayed him; and the point of his bright sword he set against Fingolfin's breast." 1
The above text clearly mentions the point of Fëanor's sword. From this we can assume that his sword may have resembled the shape of Glamdring or Narsil and was a straight bladed weapon. Setting the point of a curved weapon against the chest of Fingolfin would not make as much sense, curved blades naturally lending themselves to slashing rather than thrusting it would not seem to be an intuitive action. Rather a curved blade would be more likely to be laid against the neck, allowing a quick downwards slash to the throat. Thus from this rather scant piece it can be deduced that the swords Fëanor crafted in his forge for himself and his sons were straight bladed weapons that tapered to a point. However given that the swords forged in Aman by any of the Noldor were at first kept a secret (due to the lies of Melkor) it is safe to assume that the influence for the shape of the blade was either inspired by what Melkor instructed them in, or by what they saw around them. If they design was based on what they saw, say the curve of a shoot or sapling, it could easily have inspired a curved blade. Given the secrecy of the forging, it can be guessed that both styles may have come into being through the different ways in which each Noldor took inspiration, however the curved seems more likely to have been realized, and that assumption will be used throughout. Returning to the "point" argument however it could be said that Fëanor indeed made straight bladed weapons or it could be said that he placed the point of his curved blade on Fingolfin's breast knowing full well that a more efficient stroke could be layed upon the neck. Perhaps it was his way of threatening his kin with the proximity of the blade rather than the point itself, though doubtless it could still of done much harm had the altercation gone otherwise. Thus to sum up it would seem more likely that the Noldor took natural, flowing, graceful, and curving forms into their design simply because it was what they saw around them, despite the above quotation.
Chronologically the Sindar of Beleriand next took thought of arms.
"Therefore Thingol took though t for arms, which before his people had not needed, and these at first the Naugrim smithied for him; for the were greatly skilled in such work, though none among them surpassed the craftsmen of Nogrod, of whom Telchar the smith was greatest in renown." 2
This passage shows that unlike the Noldor in Aman the Sindar received arms that had already passed through the design process of another culture, namely the Naugrim or Dwarves. Thus as the Sindar had no design history themselves for such things what they later created of their own skill was no doubt influenced in large by the fact that their first arms came from the Dwarves and their knowledge of smithying also came from the Dwarves.
"Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them" 3
What is interesting is that the Sindar who were not know for their skill in hand, rather for their singing, seemed to grasp the art of working metal rather quickly.
"At this time therefore the Sindar were well -armed, and they drove off all creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords " 4
Apparently the weapons they had were effective against wolves and orcs that had begun to reenter Beleriand. No time is given by Tolkien for when Telchar lived, yet by this passage we will assume that he lived during this time. Telchar forged Narsil and in fact, given the period, it is not impossible that Narsil was part of the weapons hoard kept by Thingol. Thus it could be speculated that Narsil found its way into the hands of men through Beren, to Dior, to Eärendil, to Elros and thus into the hands of Elendil. However be that as it may, Narsil may be represent the template or style of Dwarvish full sized swords at that time, if the postulate of Telchar being alive at the time is accepted. Perhaps, since any of the weapons the Dwarves first wrought for Thingol would have been based on Dwarvish rather than Elvish (the Sindar having not history of weaponry, unlike the Naugrim) design,
"A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them" 5
Narsil was simply a scaled up version of the Dwarvish style of the period. If so then the blades of Thingol's Sindar probably were straight in these early times, since they to were forged by the dwarves. Now if more speculation is allowed then it would seem natural for the Sindar once they had learned something of smithcraft from the Dwarves to put their own style and flavour into the sword. Thus they may have incorporated a subtle leaf shape to their straight blades resulting in similar style to Glamdring. A natural design to arrive at given the jump start they received in weapons from the dwarves, which probably instilled a tradition of straight bladed weapons into the Sindar. Thus a straight bladed sword would seem natural to a Sindar of slightly later times, even more so if it included a leaf blade element, something nature based the Sindar could identify with.
The first battle in which the swords of the Noldor drew blood in Middle Earth was Dagor-nuin-Giliath.
"The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible." 6
This provides yet more clues the puzzle. They were swift, thus they could well take advantage of a blade suited to slashing, a damaging but by definition sweeping stroke, which would necessitate speed to escape harm as the stroke would leave the Elf exposed, also they were strong giving evidence that they could give the blade enough force to shear through armour if such a stroke was used. Finally their swords were long, certainly the Elven swords used by the Noldorin Elves of the Last Alliance were long. In fact those blades and the style in which they were used would fit in perfectly with the three characteristics described in the above passage; speed, strength, and length. The swords seen in the Second Age were a little over five feet in length; roughly half of that was handle the length, of which allowed the Elf to put his great strength into the stroke as it provided leverage; and lastly the manner in which they were used was based on speed, a swift stroke that crossed his body in a slightly upwards direction and then a rotation of the handle to bring it back for a stroke in the opposite direction and headed slightly down, relying on speed to save the swordsman from an enemy blow rather than a style of parrying, thus relying on speed to provide coverage even though sweeping strokes were used. Certainly this was a weapon who's characteristics and use could reflect such a lineage as has been outlined. Thus a similar weapon crafted in the First Age in Aman would have taken into account not only the design sense of the Noldor (as has been described) but also the physical attributes of the wielder. The swords used by the Last Alliance were two handed weapons however (save Hadhafang which was Elrond's),
"And When Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering, and that pride and anger were awake among the Noldor he spoke to them concerning weapons... Shields also they made displaying the tokens of many houses and kindreds that vied one with another; and these only they wore abroad, and of the other weapons they did not speak" 7
we have no come to the interesting problem of one or two handed swords. Shields are specifically mentioned as being made in Aman. However they may only have been used to display heraldry as that is their only stated use in Aman. Further passages must be looked at if the heart of the matter is to be illumined.
"His body recovered from his torment and became hale, but the shadow of his pain was in his heart; and he lived to wield his sword with his left hand more deadly than his right had been." 8
A Fan's justification for the designs found in the theatrical portrayal of The Lord of the Rings
or
The Curved V. Straight Debate
An Author's note:
Firstly I would like to say that the following is only my attempt to reconcile the design of the Elven swords as portrayed in Peter Jackson's film adaptation of The Lord of the Rings with Tolkien's writings, as well as settling my mind as to how the varying styles of Elven blades shown in the films might have come into being. In no way am I trying to represent what I have written as "Tolkien's intent" or the reasoning used by the WETA department who designed and crafted the film swords. It is solely my own speculation. Getting away from the dull drudgery of disclaimers I will add that I have noted my quotations. Thus the reader will find the notes at the end on the work and be able to find the passages and the surrounding text in their own copy of the appropriate book. Lastly I will say that my knowledge of swords is not as great as I would like, and I ask forgiveness if anything contain in the text below is incorrect and thus written in ignorance. I would also appreciate comments on the work. I am afraid that do to the thousand-words-per-post limitation, I had to split the text over three posts. Just read from the end of one post right into the next.
The Debate
It is recorded in the Silmarillion that the Elves first smithied swords in Aman under the instigation of Melkor. The first clue as to the nature of these swords is this.
"But Fëanor followed him, and at the door of the king's house he stayed him; and the point of his bright sword he set against Fingolfin's breast." 1
The above text clearly mentions the point of Fëanor's sword. From this we can assume that his sword may have resembled the shape of Glamdring or Narsil and was a straight bladed weapon. Setting the point of a curved weapon against the chest of Fingolfin would not make as much sense, curved blades naturally lending themselves to slashing rather than thrusting it would not seem to be an intuitive action. Rather a curved blade would be more likely to be laid against the neck, allowing a quick downwards slash to the throat. Thus from this rather scant piece it can be deduced that the swords Fëanor crafted in his forge for himself and his sons were straight bladed weapons that tapered to a point. However given that the swords forged in Aman by any of the Noldor were at first kept a secret (due to the lies of Melkor) it is safe to assume that the influence for the shape of the blade was either inspired by what Melkor instructed them in, or by what they saw around them. If they design was based on what they saw, say the curve of a shoot or sapling, it could easily have inspired a curved blade. Given the secrecy of the forging, it can be guessed that both styles may have come into being through the different ways in which each Noldor took inspiration, however the curved seems more likely to have been realized, and that assumption will be used throughout. Returning to the "point" argument however it could be said that Fëanor indeed made straight bladed weapons or it could be said that he placed the point of his curved blade on Fingolfin's breast knowing full well that a more efficient stroke could be layed upon the neck. Perhaps it was his way of threatening his kin with the proximity of the blade rather than the point itself, though doubtless it could still of done much harm had the altercation gone otherwise. Thus to sum up it would seem more likely that the Noldor took natural, flowing, graceful, and curving forms into their design simply because it was what they saw around them, despite the above quotation.
Chronologically the Sindar of Beleriand next took thought of arms.
"Therefore Thingol took though t for arms, which before his people had not needed, and these at first the Naugrim smithied for him; for the were greatly skilled in such work, though none among them surpassed the craftsmen of Nogrod, of whom Telchar the smith was greatest in renown." 2
This passage shows that unlike the Noldor in Aman the Sindar received arms that had already passed through the design process of another culture, namely the Naugrim or Dwarves. Thus as the Sindar had no design history themselves for such things what they later created of their own skill was no doubt influenced in large by the fact that their first arms came from the Dwarves and their knowledge of smithying also came from the Dwarves.
"Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them" 3
What is interesting is that the Sindar who were not know for their skill in hand, rather for their singing, seemed to grasp the art of working metal rather quickly.
"At this time therefore the Sindar were well -armed, and they drove off all creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol's armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords " 4
Apparently the weapons they had were effective against wolves and orcs that had begun to reenter Beleriand. No time is given by Tolkien for when Telchar lived, yet by this passage we will assume that he lived during this time. Telchar forged Narsil and in fact, given the period, it is not impossible that Narsil was part of the weapons hoard kept by Thingol. Thus it could be speculated that Narsil found its way into the hands of men through Beren, to Dior, to Eärendil, to Elros and thus into the hands of Elendil. However be that as it may, Narsil may be represent the template or style of Dwarvish full sized swords at that time, if the postulate of Telchar being alive at the time is accepted. Perhaps, since any of the weapons the Dwarves first wrought for Thingol would have been based on Dwarvish rather than Elvish (the Sindar having not history of weaponry, unlike the Naugrim) design,
"A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them" 5
Narsil was simply a scaled up version of the Dwarvish style of the period. If so then the blades of Thingol's Sindar probably were straight in these early times, since they to were forged by the dwarves. Now if more speculation is allowed then it would seem natural for the Sindar once they had learned something of smithcraft from the Dwarves to put their own style and flavour into the sword. Thus they may have incorporated a subtle leaf shape to their straight blades resulting in similar style to Glamdring. A natural design to arrive at given the jump start they received in weapons from the dwarves, which probably instilled a tradition of straight bladed weapons into the Sindar. Thus a straight bladed sword would seem natural to a Sindar of slightly later times, even more so if it included a leaf blade element, something nature based the Sindar could identify with.
The first battle in which the swords of the Noldor drew blood in Middle Earth was Dagor-nuin-Giliath.
"The Noldor, outnumbered and taken at unawares, were yet swiftly victorious; for the light of Aman was not yet dimmed in their eyes, and they were strong and swift, and deadly in anger, and their swords were long and terrible." 6
This provides yet more clues the puzzle. They were swift, thus they could well take advantage of a blade suited to slashing, a damaging but by definition sweeping stroke, which would necessitate speed to escape harm as the stroke would leave the Elf exposed, also they were strong giving evidence that they could give the blade enough force to shear through armour if such a stroke was used. Finally their swords were long, certainly the Elven swords used by the Noldorin Elves of the Last Alliance were long. In fact those blades and the style in which they were used would fit in perfectly with the three characteristics described in the above passage; speed, strength, and length. The swords seen in the Second Age were a little over five feet in length; roughly half of that was handle the length, of which allowed the Elf to put his great strength into the stroke as it provided leverage; and lastly the manner in which they were used was based on speed, a swift stroke that crossed his body in a slightly upwards direction and then a rotation of the handle to bring it back for a stroke in the opposite direction and headed slightly down, relying on speed to save the swordsman from an enemy blow rather than a style of parrying, thus relying on speed to provide coverage even though sweeping strokes were used. Certainly this was a weapon who's characteristics and use could reflect such a lineage as has been outlined. Thus a similar weapon crafted in the First Age in Aman would have taken into account not only the design sense of the Noldor (as has been described) but also the physical attributes of the wielder. The swords used by the Last Alliance were two handed weapons however (save Hadhafang which was Elrond's),
"And When Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering, and that pride and anger were awake among the Noldor he spoke to them concerning weapons... Shields also they made displaying the tokens of many houses and kindreds that vied one with another; and these only they wore abroad, and of the other weapons they did not speak" 7
we have no come to the interesting problem of one or two handed swords. Shields are specifically mentioned as being made in Aman. However they may only have been used to display heraldry as that is their only stated use in Aman. Further passages must be looked at if the heart of the matter is to be illumined.
"His body recovered from his torment and became hale, but the shadow of his pain was in his heart; and he lived to wield his sword with his left hand more deadly than his right had been." 8