The messages to the real world in Tolkiens Works?

[Radagast]

Tolkien put many messages refering to the "real" life in his books....

I was wondering if they were influenced by his own experiences in his life?

And another thing.... I have been trying to figure out almost all of his "messages" in his books...

messages for example as: racisme, tolerance (Legolas and Gimli) destroying nature... (wheel and metal) Power is the root of all evil...

and there are many... good you help me find some of them?

[Saruman]

The part of the Lord of the Rings which seems to have come from an experience felt by Tolkien the most is the Scouring of the Shire. When Tolkien returned from the First World War, the rustic land he had once known had changed, because of the industrial revolution. The message in the Scouring is that the world is constantly changing around you; you can fight for your home, but you can't expect it to be the same when you return. Yet, the hobbits take matters into their own hands, so it is possible for us to put things right.

[Mirkgirl]

Almost everything in his works is a message to the real world. It is inhabited of fantasy creatures, but its problem, joys and ideas are like the real world.

One of the not-so-popular ones I can think of right now is that when its time comes everything dies and this is sad but shouldn't be fought against. The more literal, human sense of this are the Numenorean kings (and Aragorn) and their deaths. A bigger, more abstract example are the elves. When their time comes they leave ME. It's more important to leave what you are, than to leave how or where you are. Galadriel's words "I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel." can also be viewed from this perespective.

Of course that's the message I see reading the book. Whether Tolkien meant it to be, whether you will see it reading it, I cannot tell.

[Radagast]

Saruman: That is brilliant! I have never thought of that before.. And it is indeed right, I read that when Tolkien returned to his home, the small forest was cut down and the old windmill outside the small local community was destroyed and made into a factory.. great observation!

When Tolkien was sitting on the front, in the trenches (is that the correct word? ... I mean the long hole where all the soldiers rested in) anyways as he was "lying" there in World War One, he began writing The Book of Lost tales........, of course Tolkien was miserable lying there seeing his friends dead and all... But my point is that here in the worst evil he would imagine, he invented Morgoth, Shelob, and Ungoliant... the characters you could say, were the worst evil on Beleriand and Middle Earth..

You are right, Mirk. And I can understand why it isn't that popular, people aren't really fond of changes, most people like the things the way they are, the way so they have complete control.

I also thought, that when I read that the elves were leaving Middle Earth, they left a great responsibility to Men. And I definetly think that Tolkien very obvious "hinted" that the elves were fine, pretty, elegant, wise... and that they loved nature... and when the race of men came, the best thing would be that they kept it like the elves had "made" it.............
And of course, we humans here in the real world are also holding a great responsibility... and I think Tolkien would want us to care more about eachother and nature....... like the elves.

[Periantari Andruil]

One major message..is that nothing lasts forever. Change is always imminent... this is seen by the Elves leaving Middle-Earth, by the Men's eventual dominion of Middle-Earth.
Also...life seems to work in cycles... We see the Numenoreans have power and valor in the Second Age only to lose it by the end. One can say that there is a life cycle of power for the Elves as well for they had their good times during teh First Age (albeit the constant battles with Morgoth) and then they fell inevitably at the end of the 1st age only to continue an existence of longing for the past at the second half of the Third Age.
I think Tolkien really reflects about life unconsciously in his books. Part of its beauty lies in the fact that these cycles are so integral in all our lives.

The simple message of "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future" and "All you have to decide is what to do with the time tha tis given to you" are really profound and true ....
and i think this is also part of the reason why Tolkien's works, especially LotR resonates with so much power and appeal.. is because it's so applicable and these messages strike to the heart.

Great thread, Radagast! :thumbs:

[Fëalossë]

Again on the Númenórean theme, I think that one of the major lessons that Tolkien wanted to get across was the evils of greed. At first the Númenóreans didn't want dominion over other lands, but rather to share their knowledge with the "lesser" cultures on the mainland. However, once they began to take plunder back to Númenor for themselves, they couldn't stop until they lusted even for the eternal life that the Eldar had, and that brought about their destruction.

Also, the Ring's attraction may have had something more to it than any normal trinket, but those who lusted after it did so because they desired power; the same happened to the Nazgúl and the Dwarves, who wanted power and gold (respectively, of course).

Melkor, too, is a fine example. Iluvatar had given him his own rightful part to sing in the symphony at the creation of the world, but he wanted to have the most important part, and dominate the rest of the Ainur. Indirectly, all the evils in Tolkien's Middle-Earth sprang from Melkor's greed, as Sauron and all the other Dark Lords were simply sprouts of the seed that Melkor planted.

[ImDaMom]

Great thoughts, all! I always found another of the themes that resonated with me is the idea that we all have a part to play-big or small! Each member of the Fellowship was important in his own way. Aragorn, while being excellent with a bow and arrow, was better with his sword, and his powers of persuasion. Gimli had his ax, which no one else could weild as well. Even the hobbits had their strenghths- from Frodo's selflessness to Pippin's humor! So while I will never match Aragorn for his ability to understand different people I can take comfort in the thought that the skills I possess are unique to me, and helpful in their own way.
And I love the idea that the Numenoreans die WHEN THEY ARE READY! The great kings know when their time is over, and are given the choice to give up life, before becoming "witless and unmanned". What a beautiful way to give back in payment for the long life granted them! I guess this would be a theme of responsibility. The Fellowship also expounds on this- what better show of responsibility than taking on such a mission, for the good of everyone!

[JemFinch]

The Lord of the Rings is not allegory, Tolkien said he disliked allegory. However, he was a very strong Catholic. He went to mass every morning, and his work was definitely influenced by his Christianity. So many of these themes can be seen: friendship, loyalty, fighting to do the right thing, even when it is very hard and you're all alone, and there seems to be no hope. Yet, Frodo's hope lies in the West. This is so undoubtedly Christian...on the long, hard road, things can be very dark, but what we hold onto is the hope of seeing Christ at the end, in heaven. (And I know I've probably offended a lot of people, but I had to put in that little bit, because that's what Tolkien was.)

[Fëalossë]

Indeed - "To him who perseveres will be given the crown of life." I know that's in there (somewhere). lol

[Aletheia]

I 2nd what was just said by JemFinch :thumbs:

~Leia:rose:~

[Olyanë]

I agree with all of these thoughts, and dont feel offended at all--tho I tend to sway toward Tolkien's thoughts, cited throughout these fine posts, that his works are not an allegory, so I would disagree with say Brad Birzer in Sanctifying Myth that lembas was a symbol for the Eucharist and Galadriel equals the Virgin Mary, --the resemblances are quite uncanny but to say they are an allegory for them as Birzer does, boils Tolkien's works down to a 1:1 distillation which Tolkien detested.
The appeal of Tolkien's works I see is far more universal, tho as he said that Catholicism is absorbed into the work (which means to me that the themes, messages et al or Catholicism are there) the appeal is universal, meaning that if you are Jewish, pagan, etc everyone finds something in it, for instance the 3 lectures I will be giving this year deal with the mystical aspects of his works--which I find in them, Catholic, Jewish and Hermetic---I also support the idea that if one is not a Catholic, you can still understand and grasp the complexities of the work
One of the best texts currently that I highly suggest reading is JOhn Garths Tolkien and the Great War, it covers how the war affected him, the germ of his tales and the impact of his beliefs--
Sorry to ramble, just my two shire coins

Anthony

[ImDaMom]

Id love to hear your thoughts on JRR and how the messages relate to Judaism. I've spent most of my life studying religious history and traditions, and I'm always into learning how others view these.

[Olyanë]

Id love to hear your thoughts on JRR and how the messages relate to Judaism. I've spent most of my life studying religious history and traditions, and I'm always into learning how others view these.

Hey there! Thanks for the question--one I am prepared to answer to an extent here- being tired and having to run shortly--but in short being Jewish and seeing themes relevant to a practitioner of Jewish mysticism is along the same lines, IMO, as one who is a Catholic seeing the themes relevant to Catholicism,--that Tolkien drew from the Judeo-Christian soup pot--yet was not creating an allegory, and these themse were absorbed into the story rather than a 1:1 distillation of them.
In regards to Judaism tho--it comes to the mysticism of the Jews, called Kabbalah to some, or not named at all depending upon whom you speak with. I am of the opinion, and have sources to back these items up, as will be evident in the lectures I will be giving this year--that Tolkien knew of the Kabbalah, or some form of it at the very least. He not only belonged to a group (The Inklings) with initiates from The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, but has said in his letters that he has read books on Jews and Judaism--
Those who have influenced and helped futher the Catholic Faith, Aquinas, Hildegard, Augustine--all were kabbalists, and there is evidence of their studying the Jewish Kabbalah--it has also been said (See Tolkien the Medievalist) that creation and cosmogony in The Silmarillion are in line with Aquinas --who studied such things in the Kabbalah and Catholicism--
My apologies if this seems vague in the least, but I am in the throes of finishing a 1/3 of the lectures I am giving this year and do not wish to divulge to much before they are given and published-- :grin:
If you are in the Philadelphia area April 13th and are interested in "Tolkien as a Catholic Mystic" check out our events page here-http://www.herenistarion.org/events.html which also lists the lecture in August --the 3rd one for November has not been announced yet--
Thanks
Anthony

[Andy]

I think the Lord Of The Rings is a microcosm of the society Tolkein lived in.