Saluting an Enemy: Wisdom or Folly?

[Gil-Galad]

Is sauliting a sword smart or is it stupid in a real fight, not fencing or sumthing of that nature. I think it is a stupid thing to do.

[Orc]

I think you should most definately salute your opponent - provided you have time, and it is safe to do so (i.e. no one is trying to skewer you at the moment).

If you are facing an honorable foe, a salute acknowledges him / her as a warrior of like spirit to yourself, and 'introduces' yourself as an honorable warrior. It sets the stage between two kindred spirits who just happen to find themselves on opposing sides of a battle. There are uncountable stories of oponents who spent days, months or even years fighting toe to toe, only to spend time during a lull in the battle to trade items with the 'enemy' or many years after a battle or war, to gather with your former foe to honor the men and women of both sides who gave the ultimate sacrifice for their homeland.

Even if you are facing a dishonerable opponent, I think you sould salute him. At worst, he will ignore it. At best it may enrage him to a point where he makes a mistake. Either way, you have presented yourself as an honorable warrior.

A salute also helps settle the spirit, and calm the mind preparing one for battle. The motions are familar to the body, and it knows to prepare for combat. In my mind, an honorable warrior is the only way to go.

[Gil-Galad]

I like the honarable part, but i think you should press on in the attack. It is ussualy kill or be killed, and as warriors you and your advisery know that one of you is going to die. In my mind, a good soldier does not hold a grudge when he is beaten (if hes still alive :;) but acknowledges his defeat and moves on.

[Fatty]

Well I think on one to one you would be on good form to salute. i think in battle it would be complete chaos and a bit more of a brawl.

[Gil-Galad]

An orderly brawl Fatty.

[Pil]

i dunno, fatty could b right! battles r in theory organised...but like that ever happens! :smooch:

[Gil-Galad]

Is anything ever how it was planned?
(well some things are, but you get the point)

[Lady Arien]

It's only honorable to salute your opponent....just before you disembowel him.....

[Mirkgirl]

If you both believe in the code, saluting would come naturally, but to try to salute someone who'd only try to use it against you is folly IMHO (where's the line is hard to say, maybe you should just make what first comes to your mind, being careful, like in the fight itself (:

[PrinceImrahil]

Well, if ur fighting in a one-on-one battle then yes, you should look honorable and solute.

of course...back in the day when swords were in fashion (several hundred years ago) when going off to war you didn't go one-on-one with someone in front of you in a battle. In a battle you hacked and slashed at everything around you, all that mattered was staying alive. you probably killed a few friend by accident b4 the day was over.

[Beregond]

I agree with Imrahil. If it's just two enemies who run into eachother in a hallway or something, then they should salute, but the wouldn't really be be time to in a big battle.

[Gil-Galad]

In reard to princes statment aboot the slashing, not all battles were like that. Roman legions were very orderly. They moved forward and fought in rank and file lines. Now, sometimes they probaly broke form when fighting but they tried not too.

[Pil]

Yeah, Roman fighting was v.sophis! I thought that Gladiator was the tits, 'WHEN I GIVE THE SIGNAL...UNLEASH HELL!' Russell Crowe is a horrible person but one kick a*s general!!! :cool:

[Gil-Galad]

Aye, i agree aboot the horible person stuff. I also love roman war tactics. But lets get back to talking aboot saluting an enemy. I am just concerned tahat if i do it he will take advantageo f the situation and chuck a dagger at me.

[Pil]

Yeah...if she was a BIG rival of mine and it was finally our meeting...then sod being civil and honourable, kill her while SHE's saluting! lol

[Catz]

well the whole idea of saluting your enemy goes back to one to one combat....trial of heroes and such....the Celtic tradition was to take both armies out to the field of battle, but very rarely did both groups actually fight (this is inter tribal of course)...they would simply send out their champions to battle, on their behalf...with a very strong component of ritual...any who fell were sacrifices to Morrigu (morrigan) the triple aspected lady of battle...so it made sense to salute your opponent....
1. they were champions and thus worthy opponents
2. they were divine in a way since they were considered a valuable sacrifice, and you didnt sacrifice the profane to the Gods
Whoops....rambled on again.....sorry....:embarras: :grin:
:catz:

[Pil]

That's perfectly ok with me... I learn a lot from u! :)

[Gil-Galad]

Very nice catz

[Bonos-Girl]

i don't see the point of salutinhg (i'm obviously missing something here!) if you're about to try and kill someone its a bit weird to salut them really...isn't it?

[Gil-Galad]

It is honarble, even though killing isnt. Mabey that is why people started it

[Orc]

Originally posted by bonos-girl
i don't see the point of salutinhg (i'm obviously missing something here!) if you're about to try and kill someone its a bit weird to salut them really...isn't it?

It is predominantly based upon honor. By saluting an opponent, you are acknowledging him as a fellow warrior and also announcing that you are ready to fight. Soldiers and warriors throughout history were just that - warriors. They typically were not the individuals responsible for declaring war and as such, would acknowledge their apponents as being in the same situation. Throughout history there are numerous stories about the fighting troops calling a truce on their own to help the wounded off the field or to even trade food and other items between the different sides. Regardless of which side of the conflict they were on, they were in it together as warriors and shared a special bond because of it.

In modern fencing competitions, you salute your opponent, then any judges, and finally the crowd or anyone obsurving the match. By doing so you are acknowleding their presence and present yourself as an honorable individual.

Saluting an opponent is more or less a ritual typically preformed in a duel or one on one combat situation, rather than in the middle of the battle.

[Pil]

Exactly! Well said Orc, you are sooo knowledgeable! I salute you (ok, bad pun, slap on the wrist for me :embarras: ) In a proper battle there would be no time for such niceties, oneonone is decidedly different... :knight:

[Gil-Galad]

Their is always time while you charge

[Pil]

But if you were in a big long line of soldiers and everyone saluted their opponent you could have a whole long line of soldiers with dented helmets...you would just kill those around you. If you tried to keep it down your enemy probably wouldn't see you anyway, so whats the point? :huh:

[Gil-Galad]

A salute can be simple, a sword brought to the helmet and brought down. The sword never has to be horizontal.

[Pil]

Spose...what if you fell over and impailed yourself on the sword? :(

[Bonos-Girl]

yeh..if i tried doing that then i'd probably kill myself (actually...if i tried doing anything with a sword i'd probably kill myself so...)

[Pil]

Please don't! :elfeek: mecry

[Bonos-Girl]

ok...if you say so.....although I haven't killed myself yet (obviously!!!) i don't think that i should tempt fate!!!!
:flamer: :batty: :flamer: :batty:
i love those little smilies!!!!

[Pil]

Saluting...would there be a universal salute, or would different armies do different stuff? If so, then wouldn't you end up satnding there going "What, the, hell are they doing?" lol

[Bonos-Girl]

that would be soooooo amusing!!!

[Bonos-Girl]

that would be soooooo amusing!!! but surely you would know that everyone saluted differently....i don't get it....

[Pil]

BUT EVEN IF YOU KNEW IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT, YOU STILL WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RECOGNISE EVERY TYPE! :mmmm:

[Bonos-Girl]

but you wou;ldn't have to because they are all different and because you knew they were different then you wouldn't stand there thinking 'what the hell are they doing?' would you????

[Gil-Galad]

its the thought that they are saluting you not the tecnicalitys in my mind

[Pil]

But would you even KNOW they were saluting you? :mmmm:

[Bonos-Girl]

if evereyone always saluted then you would know htat they were saluting...wouldn't you....

[Gil-Galad]

Yes, exactly I agree. See, he does too

[Pil]

Bonos-girl is a GIRL!!!!!!!! (Laughing from my side!) I mean, my side isn't laughing...bonos-girl is AT my side...and laughing! lol

Plus, what's the chance of every one saluting at the same time?! Seriously! :mmmm: :p

[Bonos-Girl]

they wouldn't have to salute at exactly the same time...but as long as everyone saluted at the beginning then you wouldn't have to know what it looked like or anything...I KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!!!! :0

[Bonos-Girl]

they wouldn't have to salute at exactly the same time...but as long as everyone saluted at the beginning then you wouldn't have to know what it looked like or anything...I KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!!!! :)

[Pil]

twice?! lol

I still stand by my theory about saluting! :battle:

[Pil]

Would you HONESTLY get offended if you didn't get saluted? :huh: :wiggle: :p

[Orc]

Nope. It just shows that my opponent lacks a sense of honor, and that way I would know how to approach the battle

[Pil]

So you wwould treat them differently both physically and mentally? :huh: :p :dragon:

[Orc]

Yes. If they do notsalute they probably have no sense of honor - that means that they cannot be trusted to honor a truce, or to honor the rules of warfare or a flag of truce. If they lack honor they probably won't accept a request for quarter, so even thinking about it is no longer an option. As far as the physical combtat, it won't change anything, I'd still try to kill him/her either way in battle.

[Catz]

yeah...i mean if they lack the honour to salute....to show respect to their opponent, id be less inclined to give them any quarter...just go all out to beat them...as well as being on my guard for dirty fighting....its just the mind set i guess...
:catz:

[Pil]

I suppose the way you mentally enter a fight can be more important than what u actually do in it. :huh: :battle:

[Bonos-Girl]

although i'd saying dying would be a pretty big deal!!!

[Pil]

:huh:

What do you think the salute of the orcs would have been....if they had bothered to do one? :)

[Bonos-Girl]

it would have been like that thing the new zealand rugby team do.....what's it called again???

[Pil]

Haka....but spelt differently... :huh: :blush:

[Catz]

no....."haka" spelt that way lol lol
and i dont think any maori would be too happy with you comparing their war chants to Orcs :o lol
i personally think that the Orcs would be more likely to give you the one finger salute...if they bothered with anything roflmao
:catz:

[Bonos-Girl]

i don't think that they'd appreciate it much either but i have this vision of orcs (if they actually salute) doing something LIKE that...

[Ghâsh]

Nah, I feel that it would be best to salute an opponent or do something to show honor/respect before battle. (even if its the single finger salute! heheh)

[Pil]

lol :nono: Naughty Orcs...though i agree...i reckon their salute would be insulting in some way... :Orc:

[Bonos-Girl]

it would be kinda hostile but primitive...

[Winyaél Greenleaf]

I think saluting your opponent/enemy is just a form of respect and and to acknowledge the person you'll be fighting with. For example, even in Eastern forms of Martial Arts like Kendo, Taekwondo, Judo, Karate and Wushu, participants have to bow to their opponents or clench their fists as a form of courtesy and acknowledgement. What they think of in their hearts is probably a different thing altogether. lol

[Alatar]

ya i did Tae-Kwon-Doe for a few years (then stopped as i didn't have the time anymore) and found that it is highly based upon Respect and Honour towards your oponent, for example you must clench your hands when approaching an opponent and must bow when leaveing the feild of combat eg Hall, Field. Also my brother is a Black Belt in it (highest belt before becomeing master) and teaches classes, and i personally know that it is an effective form of martial artsmecrymecry.

In anycase i beleive that saluting your opponent is both honourable and respectable.

[Ereinion]

I believe that an honorable worrior must salute the person his may kill in the battle.....A person who salutes his enemy is not honoring the enemy,but the people he represents....When a person salutes,it fills him with pride and gives him a better chance to defeat the enemy

[Estell]

1.) In actual pitched battle, saluting is a matter of your honor and dignity, not that of your opponent.

2.) I take karate classes at my church. Our dojo (classroom) is overlooked by a baptismal tub, tee hee ... peace on earth! :knight: When sparring with my sensei (master), or with other students, we always bow to each other. it is honorable. It is also a pleasure to give honor to my sensei, who is a strong and good man who would make a great Ranger.

3.) In a duel, only someone perfectly vulgar would refuse to acknowledge a salute in kind. If you are being respected, you should show respect.

4.) In single combat, you will be in far closer and more prolonged contact with a single person. if to the death, hey, everyone likes to have a nice bit of honor before dying ...

[Nilion Elentano]

Originally posted by Orc
I think you should most definately salute your opponent - provided you have time, and it is safe to do so (i.e. no one is trying to skewer you at the moment).

If you are facing an honorable foe, a salute acknowledges him / her as a warrior of like spirit to yourself, and 'introduces' yourself as an honorable warrior. It sets the stage between two kindred spirits who just happen to find themselves on opposing sides of a battle. There are uncountable stories of oponents who spent days, months or even years fighting toe to toe, only to spend time during a lull in the battle to trade items with the 'enemy' or many years after a battle or war, to gather with your former foe to honor the men and women of both sides who gave the ultimate sacrifice for their homeland.

Even if you are facing a dishonerable opponent, I think you sould salute him. At worst, he will ignore it. At best it may enrage him to a point where he makes a mistake. Either way, you have presented yourself as an honorable warrior.

A salute also helps settle the spirit, and calm the mind preparing one for battle. The motions are familar to the body, and it knows to prepare for combat. In my mind, an honorable warrior is the only way to go.
I totally agree with Orc, when you face another warrior, whether he be worthy of honour or not is not a question, it is a code, it is showing respect for their life even if you are about to take it away.
I like so much when Aragorn holds his sword high before he meets the Uruks at Amon Hen, it is a sign of respect for the opponent, and a sign of his own determination.
I also agree that if your opponent does not care, at least you might enrage him and then an attack propelled by rage might lead to his own defeat.:thumbs:

[Catz]

in purely practical terms youre quite right.............the body has a memory and that memory is invoked by simple movements that are repeated...........thus a salute can instantly prepare one for a fight, giving the body a signal that a fight is in the offing, and settling the mind into a calm and prepared state
most fighting systems have some sort of ritual associated with them in order to take advantage of this fact
:catz:

[Aragorn's Hope]

I also like when Aragorn salutes the urckhai even though we all know Aragorn hates them. ;) I think if Aragorn hadn't ducked though he would have been beheaded.