Maps of Beleriand First Age Middle Earth.

[Bioxilos af Ogre]

Hello there.

There are plenty of maps of Middle Earth
in both the First Age & Third Age..
Not all that many of the Second Age though.

But what im looking for at the moment
is a compleat map of Middle Earth in the
First Age.
Showing both Beleriand and Thangorodrim.
Its normally just either Beleriand or Thangorodrim.
The very select few maps that i have found
that show all in one go are maps of the whole
planet or something of its like.

This (http://www.tolkien-maps.com/maps/beleriand_swj.jpg) map, is one that i favor abit.
Buut.. Thangorodrim aint on it
(Angband and the Iron Mountens) :(
Asking if anyone has a map like the one in the link,
but has also the Thangorodrim on it?!

I would be really really REALLY (and so forth)
Happy if anyone have come across a map like this. :grin:

[Radagast]

Well I am not able to help you sorry (im sorry plenty of people will help)

I have a question.. a wierd question.. I always wondered.. What is south of Umbar..?

[Bioxilos af Ogre]

I have a question.. a wierd question.. I always wondered.. What is south of Umbar..?

Hm I aint totally sure..
As for South of Umbar _Inland_ think you have the Lands
called Haradwaith, mosty Southeast of Umbar but south non-da-less.
As for the costal area South of Umbar, i think only deep digging in
the books and some logical guessing from the information you find
can give you the best answer.
My bet is more smaller Citys to the south owned by the
pirates.
Making my guess from the fact that those blebbin pirates must have
come from somewhere. :grin:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

There is in fact a two-piece map in Fonstads Atlas of ME...it's too big so is split across two doubble pages...all of it is there! Now a scan over a doubble page will naturally be of a lesse quality, but I'll try to get someone to scan them and upload them here. You really would benefit from owning this book, it's got loads of maps!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Sorry for doubble posting...but I found the maps on the web...

http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/index.php?tab=maps&page=Map%20sets&catID=21&subCatID=12

click view maps...they are split in southern and northern Beleriand. Now some folk think Fonstad has made a few errors and honestly I don't delve that deep into it so there is no way I can comment on that...mostly I see good reviews tho.

Hope that helps!:)

[Radagast]

Wow thanks, Cuiel!

I guess I've never really thought about, what was way north... and way south of the Shire.. Why cant you see Beleriand and the South of Harad on regular "Middle Earth-maps" ?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Dunno...depends on what kind of maps you got? Are they perhaps third age maps, from LotR?

[Radagast]

Yeah they are from the third age.. Wasn't Beleriand completely changed at that point?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Yip...names and all!

[Radagast]

But what became of Beleriand? You say it changes with names and all.. Gandalf talks about the dragons living in the plains of the north?.. Is that the remains of Beleriand?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Wow...I never thought through that...but if you look at the 1st age map you can see that Beleriand stretched from the west coast and as far as the River Gelion in the east. I can't see any southern borderline tho there obviously is one. To the north there is Nevrast and Doriath. Now the structure of ME had obviously changed a lot in the third age, at least the mountains are in completely different places, and some rivers too. The Shire was seemingly in 1st age West Beleriand, third age Eriador, tho there are no Blue Mountains on the 1st age map. As for the dragons living in the plains in the north, that is a very loose term. On the third age map there are plains north of the Shire, but also east of the Iron Hills...and then there is the Northern Waste. Now the plains north of the Shire seems to have been mountains in the 1st. age, and the borders of Beleriand seem to be there...correct me anyone if I'm wrong. I hardly think the dragons lived in the eternal ice, but it could have been on the plains east of the Iron Hills. That fits with Bilbos journey to the Lonely Mountain as well, which was east of Mirkwood. If Gandalf was referring to 1st. age West Beleriand, 3rd. age north Eriador, when he spoke of the dragons habitat, they may have lived in the mountains of Ered Wethrin in the 1st. age and moved east by the time of Bilbo's journey. I guess that is as close as I can get! :)

[Bioxilos af Ogre]

Well the whole of Beleriand was actually sunk..

On a first age map you can see a mountenrange
at the east called Ered Luin.
That mountenrange is the same mountenrange
west of Shire, called Ered Luin, or aka Blue Mountens.

I'v seen a good map that shows the relation of Beleriand
& Middle Earth-3'rd age.

Check this (http://img-fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/images/combomap.jpg) map out. the blue area to the west is Beleriand.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

It was sunk!!!?:o I've never seen this one before...do I understand it correctly then that Beleriand is beneath the sea outside Middle Earth? Gee I'm hitting the delete-button and starting over! Completely bowled over! :blush: What book has information about this?

You can ofcourse see the similarities between these two continents, which is what threw me completely off course. You could have knowcked me over with a feather! But say how about them dragons? These north plains which I so neatly found out had to be east of Mirkwood hehehe lol can that be correct or do you think they lived to the west? Quickly now before Rada comes back! :shhh: :grin:

Oh and was that map by Fonstad any help at all?

[Bioxilos af Ogre]

Yes there are similarities to the 2 "areas" ..
In how the land is splitup by rivers and mountens.
But the map just shows where the westcoast was
befor the lands of Beleriand were sunk.

And Fonstads maps.. well i have most of them
already. and some areas are located in the wrong
places on his/hers maps.

Information about the sinking of Beleriand?
hihi think you might want to read Silmarillion.
There you will find answers to all your questions
as give you a bunch of new questions to ask. :grin:

Ehm .. Dragons?
All dragons were created in the dark fortress of Angband.
when Beleriand was sunk only 2 winged dragons escaped,
dont remember how many wyrms or wingless dragons got
away but probobly a "few".
One winged dragon is bumped into in Lonely Mounten in
the Third Age.
Im not totally sure but i think there was a mention of
dwarven citys being layed in ruins by dragons in the
Northern Wastes.
If someone else could check up on that it would be great. :)

[Radagast]

I thought that Beleriand was completely destroyed during the last fight where the valar's came and overthrew Melkor/Morgoth.. and the land that once was Beleriand became Middle Earth..

The Dragons: In the third age there were Scatha the Worm who dwelt in the Misty Mountains... But was eventually killed by men I think it was around the end of the third age. And then there was Smaug.. whom we all know.. And there was also Ancalagon which was slayn in one of the ages..

But what I have been discussing with friends is, what is the "watcher in the water"? Numerous places says that it is a "Cold-drake" which is a wingless dragons.. But it also says various places that it is a cephalapod/kraiken.. (meaning "a sort of giant squid.. or a beast with tentacles).. is it a dragon or what?

My last question.. now we are at the north and south... what about the east...? In the first age, Curunir (Saruman) went east with Allatar and Pallando (the blue wizards) Curunir came back but the other two didnt?
What is in the east?

(this is probably the wrong thread for this lol )

[Nessa the Dancer]

The Watcher in the Water discussion is deffo the wrong thread and wrong forum lol I advise that you go to the Library of Minas Tirith forum and make a thread about it.

You can keep talking and discussing the map locations etc though as long as you stay within the thread, maps are an art after all hehe

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Yea we are way off topic...hehehe lol...I totally have to reread the Sil I must have forgotten half of it already...I like you Rada thought that ME was where Beleriand once was and I had NO IDEA what so ever that it had sunk and I am shutting up now!
*runs out to find her Sil.*

[Bioxilos af Ogre]

Hm how about i Challenge someone here in making a map for me?

A map containing the whole of Beleriand and Thangorodrim.

A requirement is going to be that I would very much want it
like This (http://www.tolkien-maps.com/maps/bel1.png)

And you dont need to fill in the names of places.
Actually you can use that one for Beleriand, and then
do Thangorodrim (Angband) along with the mountenrange
behind it (dont remember their name) and add it.

Reason why im persistent enough to post this is cause i so badly
need a map with the WHOLE of Beleriand, along with Thangorodrim.
I need it for a future homepage for the NeverWinter Nights (PC game)
module me and my friend are making.
It will serve as a map (duh ;) ), pointing out where you are
currently located in the module.

So if anyone got the skillz to do it,
i would be really really really x500 happy,
if someone made it. :blush: notworthy
Cause i simply lack the skillz for this one.
Makes me go crazy not being able to make this but thats
the way it is :(

And yes your nick/name will be on it and a special
thanks on the site. :grin:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

sorry sweetie...that goes way beyon my ps skills lol I would have if I could tho:(

[AndreI3000]

Atlas of Middle-Earth...i must have for every tolkien collector!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Just thought I'd post this in case it is of use...there are all the maps of the mentioned book, and also a lot of other information!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mithrandircq/Silmarillion-Chronology.htm