Windlass Steelcraft - Quality?

[ernienow]

I just purchased the Ranger/Guardian Sword from Windlass, (mentioned in this section I believe) and I am inquiring about the quality of this item. The sword if full tang and "battle-ready", although I intend to do nothing mroe than swing it around. Iv'e recieved mixed reactions about their products - some sites say they are great, other places say they are trash. Could someone give me a full rundown on Windlass. Also, there is another sword they make that I'm interested in: http://bytheswordinc.com/acatalog/Fantasy_Swords_Page_3.html the Fantasy Barbarian Sword- but I don't want to buy any more of these blades until I know how good they are.

Final question: what do you all know about Last Legends -any good?
Thanks in advance.

[Night Wolf]

last legend and windless arnt the best, for cheap beaters used by re-inactors they suffice but are nothing too glamourous. Paul Chen swords by Hanwei are really moving up in quality and I've handled sword from hanwei, windlass and last legend...Windlass are getting better though, and they wont break or the like with minor use, but their fit and finish is still rudementary at best :).

I'd recommend some of the Hanwei historical line, I mean for just of $250 you can have a damascus nordic sword.

[ernienow]

Ok, could u give me a link or site where they sell those? I've been looking around and most people say that windlass was trash during their expansion period (late 70's early 90's) and that they are getting better.
What did u think of Last Legend, ive heard they make good swords. Thanks for the imput.

[ernienow]

Ok, I've taken your advice and im looking around for Paul Chen sword that interest me, so far I like Godfred Viking Sword and the Dao Sword -thouhts? Also, what do you know about Cold Steel? Sry for all the q's.

[Night Wolf]

cold steel are good, not too historical with their blades but good quality...Last Legend have had mixed reviews, their katana line are praised but I havnt heard anything about their euro line.

...the Dao by paul chen is good along with the rest of their line, they have alot of damascus and folded steel swords are brilliant prices. www.ancientedge.com sell hanwei products, they have the BEST customer service around IMO and check all there blades for defects before shipping. because they are hand made its the nature of the beast that one might get through not as good as the rest of the batch...but thats why good quality assurance is a plus :)

[ernienow]

Wolf, please get on AIM so I can ask you some more questions, too many to ask. THanks

[TrueSwordsman]

With the experience of actually holding, swinging, and fighting with every big name Manufacturer in swords I will reply with my personal findings on the issue of quality. Please keep in mind that hitting any sword edge to edge will put nicks in the blade. Swords with a dull or rounded edge will not nick as deep.

Windlass Steel (European only) - http://armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AOVL&Category_Code=WSC - they are typically more flexible than all other mass produced swords available. They come with a dull edge and are dubbed for use in stage combat. With about a 50 RC hardness they do hold up well in light combat. Because they are more flexible they are also, usually lighter than CAS Iberia or Generation 2 Swords. My opinion - good for light combat in theatrical choreographed performance. I would not recommend for hard hitting all out blade on blade contact.

CAS Iberia Paul Chen Swords (European Only) - The tempering process on these swords is very good http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=2000-GT&Category_Code=MB. There specialty is Katanas, which they do very well, much of the knowledge they have developed in forging Katanas has transferred to their European line. Some issues I have personally seen are thin week tangs. I have seen the issue corrected on some swords i.e. http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=2046-GT&Category_Code=BW originally the above sword had a thin tang that was prone to breaking, now it has a much wider thicker tang than those made a few months ago. One thing to be cautious of is older versions with the thin tangs, they are still floating around out there. Some of the higher end Paul Chen blades i.e. the Folded Viking Sword 1010-GT are awesome blades, but also suffer from small tang syndrome. I have not seen one brake, but there are not many people I know that will fight with a sword this beautiful.

Generation 2 Steel to steel Swords - http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=2046-GT&Category_Code=BW - This brand of sword is limited to only 5 internet dealers www.armsofvalour.com being one of them. They are only a few years old, but were created with the weaknesses and faults of all other mass produced swords in mind. The goal....to eliminate them. With that said, the Generation 2 swords alleviate a lot of problems seen in other mass produced swords. They have thick strong tangs with well tempered strong blades. They come with a razor sharp edge except for two that have a blunt edge for safe blade on blade contact. http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=IP-004-2&Category_Code=BW

Personally I am impressed with the Generation 2 swords, but will point out a few flaws. Some models are a bit tip heavy and lack flex. Other models have a good balance and good flex, so it really depends on which Gen2 sword you choose. I have only seen one break (at the tang) when it was used to hit a small tree (not recommended with any sword). With close inspection it appeared to be a flaw in the steel.

Last Legend ( European only) - I have found LL to be very strong, but also very heavy.

Above you can see there are good points and bad points to every sword. I would recommend shopping for a sword that is right for you. What are you going to use it for - Stage combat, to hang on the wall, practice cutting? Once you decide educate yourself in the qualities of each manufacturer and sword you are interested in.

Bottom line, ask multiple sword dealers their opinions on each sword. You should be able to tell who is trying to make a sale, and who is being truthful.

[ernienow]

Wow, thanks for all the info Swordsman. I am very interested in a Viking/Scottish style sword - the warfare from that region really interests me. I have taken a look at the Godfred Sword - and I must say I am very impressed, but I really want a Scottish sword like William Wallace had. (I just recently saw Braveheart - wow) I was wondering if you could point me in the direction for a good solid William Wallace type sword, and possibly a back scabbard to match. Thanks.

[Night Wolf]

Argh my computer had frozen so messages you sent got through but I was off to work at 4am.

Christian Fletchers line using ATRIM blades are far superior to EVERY production maker listed here, plus i disagree with points "trueswordsman" made since I've also used these in western martial arts classes (which I no longer do, I'm more japanese oriented in my martial arts). The tangs on the Hanwei line are consistent with historical finds, and their new updated pattern welded viking sword with extended fully has an even beefier tang, I've seen people buy this sword just to dismount and customise with great success (including sharpening their blades) to what I'd call a custom sword standard...been contemplating the same thing with my sword.

Personally I'd buy an Atrim from allsaints blades, for $400 you could have one of the strongest production swords around...christian fletchers is semi production, and you can to a degree have a selection on things you want but the price goes up when you want scabbards made and exotic materials. :)

[ernienow]

Ok, do they make a Braveheart type sword? I just saw that movie and I would much rather have the Scottish Claymore with leather covered ricasso than the Godfred sword. Do you know of any good ones out there? Only think about A Christian Fletcher sword is, I am just now starting an interest in swords etc. I don't think I should go off and buy a $1000 sword with all the accesories before I have a real appreciation for their quality, it will only spoil me. :nono: So I'd like to start off with something more affordable and practical for me - Thanks for the info wolf.

[TrueSwordsman]

I do know that CAS has or is working to improve issues previously seen with week tangs. Just wanted to let potential buyers know that the problem is out there and caution should be given before purchasing. You definitely do not want to get stuck with an older model for the same reason you would not want a Windlass from the 90’s.

As for Wallace Swords, there are many on the market today. Each varies slightly in strength and combat readiness. I may be biased in this one, but I would definitely recommend the Wallace by Generation 2.
http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=IP-068&Category_Code=S
It is a bit tip heavy but the quality exceeds all other massed produced Wallace replicas on the market. Arms of Valor has gone as far as removing all other Wallace replicas from their website except for the Generation 2 Wallace.

Our new version of the Wallace Sword is more historically accurate and stronger with a peenned pommel (the tang runs through the pommel and is pounded flat). This feature is a vast improvement over a screw on pommel. We are so confidant in our new Wallace that we have stopped selling all other versions!

[ernienow]

Ok, how about a back scabbard for it? It looks like a nice sword, and I dont mind it being tip heavy. ANY sword of that size is going to weigh a good ammount in the front, plus im a pretty strong guy. I see one by CASI, but its not from the Hanwei forge, so I am iffy about it. So, could i get a back scabbard to fit that 1?

[TrueSwordsman]

Yes, you can get one at AoV. Just follow the link below:

http://www.armsofvalour.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOVL&Product_Code=1038-GT&Category_Code=A

[ernienow]

Exactly what color is the handle and leather covered ricasso. SOme pictures it appears black, and other brown. I will probably get this version unless another version catches my eye. EIther way, what do you think of the CASI version: http://casiberia.com/cas_website/product_details.asp?id=SA3600 i can get it for a great deal cheap here: http://www.amobhitman.com/customer/product.php?productid=4983&cat=109&page=3 . Thoughts?

[TrueSwordsman]

The Gen 2 Wallace has a dark brown leather ricasso with a dark brown wood handle.

The CAS version of the Wallace is total garbage. It is so poorly made that AoV will not even sell it. It is made by a company called Armaduras out of Toledo Spain. The tang is very small and some even have a hole drilled through the middle of the tang. The crossguard is brass plated with nickel, which will rub off to expose the brass underneath. I could snap the blade off the tang just by swinging it hard with a quick stop.

As you can see, I don’t like Armaduras or the sword.

[ernienow]

LOL. Ok. Clearly you are biased, but even with bias, those are some strong words. Also, since I am just getting into this, what would u suggest i do in terms of upkeep and care for my swords. Since they have high carbon content they will rust right?

[TrueSwordsman]

Arms of Valor could sell the CAS Wallace but have chose not to, so I don’t think I am really biased. Really I am just stating my opinion on each of the swords I have seen and used. In a fight I would not be caught dead with the CAS Wallace.

Oils like WD-40 work, but can be messy and have to be re-applied often. Currently I use car wax to keep the moisture off all metal parts of my swords. If you heat up the blade with a hair dryer to remove all moisture and wax the sword it will protect it for a long period of time. I just apply several coats and the re-apply every few months. It can also be a good bonding time with your sword.

[ernienow]

So basically most anything to keeo air from the blade will work, whether its the Paul Chen oil or car wax?

[TrueSwordsman]

That is correct. Air and moisture are bad for high carbon spring steel.

[ernienow]

Ok. Thanks -that shouuld answer all my q's for today. You've been a lot of help. Thank you.

[Illuvatar]

Hey...just to jump in here for a little bit.....:p

Wow....talk about a wealth of information! I've done some poking around with all these links and have actually learned a thing or two.

Ernie..... TrueSwordsman and our Armoury Editor - Orc, have put together some great articles on the care of weapons, etc. and you should probably check them out here (http://www.warofthering.net/armoury/orcsironsmithy/).

I'm actually doing some reading up on things here myself! :p

Enjoy!

[ernienow]

LOL. Yea, wolf and swordsman know what they are talking about. They are a great resource for someone like me just getting into this type of thing. Ill make sure to take a look at those, but i gotta study now pfbbt

[TrueSwordsman]

By the way, let us know when you make your choice, and what you think of it when it arrives.

[ernienow]

I think i will get the Gen2 verison, but I probably won't get it until near Christmas.

[IronHills Dwarf]

Going to resurrect this thread for a minute. I'm looking at getting something in the way of a basic spring steel sword. Nothing fancy just something that won't break and will tide me over till Nilion gets going on my own stuff. ;)

The one that caught my eye was the Windlass warbrand, interesting design. Now I've heard all the stuff about Windlass (love em or hate em), all I want is to know if anyone has actually used this particular sword and what their impressions were. Is it sturdy? Not whippy (I'm slightly worried about this)? Balance? I'm not to concerned with perfect fittings or anything like that (not looking to spend much at all, just want something basic), which I gather have been much of the complaints regarding Windlass.

[TrueSwordsman]

I have not used it blade on blade contact, but have swung it a few times. It has a great deal of flex. I think you mentioned whippy, well it flexes enough to be used to hit someone around a corner.

I think the reason it has so much bend, is because it is a flat blade without much of a spine and without any sort of fuller.

[IronHills Dwarf]

Thanks for the info. In that case I'll skip it as it sounds a bit cheesy if it's that floppy. If its that bad I'm surprised AoV carries it given how picky you guys are with your products.

[Orc]

Iron Hills,

Have you considered anything from Albion? I know that even their cheepest line of swords the "Squire Line" run at about $350, which is twice what you're looking at. I've had the opportunity to tour their facility in New Glarus here in WI and was pretty impressed with these swords. Got a chance to get a feel for them but no blade on blade contact. I think a friend picked up one recently. I can see what he thinks of it if you're interested in more information. What I really like is that they do a differential temper in their blades. Not sure if it's in the price range of what you are looking for.

Windlass seems to have improved in quality overall. I picked up some of their stuff about 10-12 years ago and was not impressed, and haven't purchased anything since. But I have seen some of their more recent blades and it's a dramatic improvement.

[IronHills Dwarf]

Hi Orc,

I did look at Albion. Extremely nice products, but I was looking for more of a beater. I only looked at the warbrand because of the interesting design, the price for spring steel and the fact that I have some loose cash rattling around, but if it's as floppy as a stage sword I think I'll avoid it. I just wanted something cheap to play (including steel on steel) with till I start getting high quality custom jobs. Maybe I'll go for some nice wood instead, AoV does have that nice wood version of Glamdring. ;) Albion and ATRIM are pretty nice though. I'm less interested in owning a 14-15th century replica blade anyway as my interest is more in odd or unique designs from the dark ages and early middle-ages.

[IronHills Dwarf]

Hmm, to get back to the warbrand I've read from a few guys who own the thing, apparently it's got flex but nothing excessive. Still will hold "tight" for thrusting. Maybe I'll get this one eventually afterall. :) Could it possibly be TSM, that you handled a earlier production model and they've improved again? The other guys seemed pretty happy with it.