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View Full Version : Finding a Quality Blade, Fantasy or Otherwise


azimaith
October 30th,2004, 05:25 AM
I haven't been on in a while but I notice this is a pretty prevalent issue so here goes.

First off, theres alot of people out there who like to cheat people out of a fine quality blade, if I were talking about toaster ovens or some such I would not be so vehement, but since i'm talking about swords, which can break and kill people, I can't stress enough, get a good blade if you plan on swinging it in any way, shape or form. This is very important. I recently got a message about a man practicing with a Katana when the blade broke and impale one of his students who later died. This can happen to anyhow who handles a poorly made weapon of war.

Quick Terms
Here are some important terms to remember for the general parts of the blade that you will need for shopping.

Grip: The wrapping for the handle.

Handle: The actual handle, often made of wood, that surrounds the tang.

Hilt: The lower half of the blade consisting of the handguard(or crossguard), grip, handle, and pommel.

Pommel: The end of the sword which caps off the tang. While it differs in shape there are some that are common, namely disc, which is of course a disc shape, and brazil nut which is somewhat semicircular.

Steel: Steel is an alloy of carbon and iron. It comes in different varieties and can be made to a different levels of rigidity and flexibility.

Tang: The end of the blade inserted into the handle. This is where the swords blade connects with the hilt. This is *very* important.

Step One: The Blade, Construction, Material, and Attachment.
The first and most important part of buying a sword is the blade. Poorly made blades or more often, poorly made tangs can be *lethal* and thus require the utmost care in purchase.

So seperating the good from the bad, here goes.
The blade should first off, not be plugged for being heavy. Overweighting a blade with decorations not only puts undue stress on the tang but also is a hallmark of poor construction. Good weapons should be light. If you plan on swinging your purchase, a heavy blade doesn't infer anything except that there is more things that needed tacked onto the sword.

When looking for a blade look for a good diamond shaped cross section for swords that use two edges. (Generally long swords, one handed swords, bastard swords, two handed swords, and true two handers of the renaissance.) Its all right if the edges taper a little out but they should not be extremely thin.

A mix of rigid and flexible steel is important in a blade, a good way to test blade rigidity provided your lucky enough to get your hands on it before buying is by holding the blade out flat in front of you. The tip should never sag under its own weight. If your smith is particularly permissive, you can ask to bend the blade, it should flex about 45 degrees and return true. If either of these events don't happen the blade is not good.

The most important thing to look for in a blade is its tang. This is so important because if your tang breaks, your blade is going to be going flying in the direction it was being swung in, possibly killing someone. Never ever ever ever buy a rat tail tang sword for actual use. A rat tail tang means the tang is thin (ie rats tail) and therefore can't support as much force. Only buy blades with full tangs. Unfortunately many companies don't list the tang, since a sword is generally a large investment I encourage you to write them on the matter. If they don't know what a tang is, take your business elsewhere.

Construction is very important in a sword. Its not just one bit of sharp metal slapped onto a another piece of hilt shaped metal, its several pieces of steel (hopefully) interconnected and because of its complexity it can fail in any of these parts if its not properly made.

First, look out for spot welding (welding only done in small areas in attachment) You want the welds to go the entire way around the area, they need to be solid because you don't want four feet of sharpened metal catapulting through the air.

Second, look at the materials. In general, never buy swords with bronze pommels or guards. Its too soft a metal to be used in these stress areas and is a hallmark of cheap building.

Third, if you plan on swinging the sword, don't get aluminum blades. Aluminum doesn't have the same flexibility in connection with strength that steel can give. Over rigid swords will break if they are struck against a hard object while flexibile swords will only ding or dent preventing the giant shards of metal from flying all over.

Ideally your looking for a steel blade. The type of steel is relative to the use and upkeep you want. To keep it simple I like using spring steel blades. They have good flexibility and strength and they represent the types of building materials they would use then. There is a downside of course to spring steel, like any normal steel, its going to rust, so if you don't want constant upkeep with oiling, polishing, and eventually grinding out rust spots, I don't suggest it. If your looking for a low upkeep blade stainless steel isn't a bad bet. Unfortunately stainless steel is often plugged because its reflective surface, unlike spring steel stainless steesl grain is different causing stiffer less flexibile blades thus leading to an increased chance of breaking. If you don't want to upkeep your sword but don't plan on swinging it often, stainless steel is an alright material.

Step Two: Wading through the Bull.
Now in many wholesale outlets for swords you will see them flinging out all sorts of zingers and slogans to sell their product. Here are some of the most common you need to know to be safe and wise.

Fasts Ones Pulled by Sales:

Battle Ready: The worst offender of them all. All this means is that the sword has been tested once and it didn't break. Its not an accurate indicator of quality as there is nothing governing what its used on, how hard it was swung, or whether it was just the sword could deal one blow and hold. If someone plugs how their swords are "battle ready" I would advise not patronizing them as the only thing they are battle ready about is ready to battle for your wallet.

Functional: Functional to what degree? All this means is the sword can cut, it says nothing about its quality and sometimes a functional blade on an unfunctional hilt is more dangerous than any other weapon.

High Carbon Steel: All steel is carbon, otherwise it would be iron. High carbon is relative to what they consider high. Its like saying a high lettuce ceasar salad.

Massive: Massive does not equal good. All it means is the blade is large and heavy. Heavy is a bad quality for a blade and a hallmark of bad craftsmanship. Large depends on the blade. Its essentially like advertising your cars you sell have no seatbelts.

420 steel: Another way of saying stainless steel while attempting to have some kind of technical backing.

So, What Should I expect to Pay for a Good Blade?
There are some bad offenders in the blade market out there selling cheap unsafe weapons for as little as 20 dollars, some even less. For anything other than wall decoration I highly advise avoiding these swords at all costs. If you want a good blade, brace yourself now, expect to pay about 300.00 USD for one. A sword is just one of those items you can't mass produce in quality. The best swords cost more but for the average collector or for someone who wants a functional piece of military hardware, 300 is about the average. You can go lower, just remember that quality is definately related to your price. Of course there are some who add lots of decorations to swords and price it up to 300, but follow the guidelines above and you should be able to weed those out.

So, with all those bad blades out there, where can I get some quality ones?

Quality Armories
Sword Forum International
http://store.swordforum.com/
This site not only offers quality accurate information on its forums from sword enthusiasts, but it also has excellent weapons. I bought a bastard sword from here recently and was very happy with it.

Raven Armouries.
http://www.raven-armoury.co.uk/
For those with a bit of money to throw around, this is a great place to get good quality weaponry.

Del Tin Swords
http://www.deltin.net/indice.htm
While it may seem like a small site, the swords are of good quality.

Purple Heart Armory
http://www.woodenswords.com/WMA/index.htm
If you prefer something you can actually hit someone with, head to purple heart armory and check out their wasters (practice swords) They have both padded versions and wooden versions. Be sure to where padding with the wooden swords. I have both and am very satisfied with them.

The Hall Of Shame
And here are the worst offenders.
Ebay.
Yep, you can get anything from here. I do not recomend their swords in and shape or form. Most of it is cheaply made and not up to par with any combat needs.

BudK Knives
Another whole sale outlet who sells swords. I definately don't recomend them considering how cheap they are and how many fast-ones they try to pull on customers.

5 Star Wholesale
Another site like BudK. Poor quality cheap swords. I do not recomend buying anything from them if you plan on using it.

And of course, the Disclaimer
Remember this is my opinion which I have based on study and personal experience in the area of western swordsmanship. Everything I said here is from my view of the matter. I don't work for any of these companies and just because I don't recomend their swords doesn't mean there is nothing they sell that can be good.

And with that done, have a nice time and shop wisely.

Night Wolf
November 20th,2004, 06:25 PM
$300 average? that wont even get you a production Atrim blade...raise the bar about a grand and you'll get a good safe blade. you generalised on every point, a katana shouldnt flex at all, and the material means very little. Paying $300 wont get you custom so you have no say in what you get, you just get it. rat tail tangs come in various sizes and types, Lutel use a version of rat tale and there swords are used in WMA around the world.

Stainless is the latest fad, dont spout its not good because of flexibility...there are GOOD stainless swords made by ONE smith. EVERYTHING is to do with the heat treat, heat treating stainless is hard, really hard. Expect to pay over $2500 for a stainless sword. The smith I know of though makes tactical swords...stainless isnt alright, its for wall hangers and really the smith i referred to while good at heat treating stainless, over charges. Keeping rust off a steel or Iron blade isnt difficult, a child could upkeep a blade. 440C and such isnt just another name, its the metallurgical code, it lets people that know metal its properties and whats thrown in the mixture. Read ALOT more...FYI high carbon means just that, low carbon count such as 1045 isnt good for steel, the carbon percentage is too low...1050 is ok for japanese blades, 1095 is the most common used, easy to heat treat WELL and has the highest carbon content of the plain carbon steels. Once you move into alloys there are lots of different reasons to pick them, wear resistence, edge holding ability etc.

onto the sites you listed, Raven armoury have a 3 year waiting list currently due to military sabre orders...dont expect to hear from them quickly. Del tin are far too soft coming in at around 50 rockwell hardness...l highly recommend you all stay away from sword forum international if you wish to learn properly and not learn whats posted above, SFI house elitist pompus *****'s and all the members I respected have left to other forums more suited to those wanting knowledge www.myarmoury.com has a good knowledge base on there, some members are ****** but oh well.

BTW katana incidents have happened a bit, not from poorly made swords! they have pegs through the nakago ana to hold the tsuka on, an old sword as some sensei use the pegs get neglected, these are only bamboo and can fail in time. the key is maintenence...I only know of one incident where someone has died, in japan 2 years ago in the Seki province at the Toyama ryu Tai Kai, the swords mekugi failed and a child was hit by the blade (died later in hospital).

In short people $300 wont get you a piece of notable worth...just a production run of the mill poorly finished sword. My latest sword cost well over $2500 USD custom made, you can get good production swords around $400 but thats the BASE price.

Lastly seek professional training before you buy a live blade, even an unsharpened blade. I've been around swords for around 9 years, traditionally trained, and I'll be opening up shop with one of americas best custom smiths. Training is the key, and when buying knowledge from reputable sources is best. There is more to a sword than flex, tang, cross section etc...and get to know metals, ask smiths on forums, believe me if your nice and talk to them with respect and dont be a condescending smart-a they will tell you all the secrets.

*gets off my soap box*

People just dont kill yourself, the sword community suffers enough from ignorant people that shouldnt own a butter knife let alone a sword...I wanna have a job in 30 years time, not have the population slowly have swords banned.

Night Wolf
November 20th,2004, 06:31 PM
PS. On eBay I've seen swords from some of the best smiths in the world go for under what they are worth, its good if you know what your looking for because people with good swords sell on eBay out of desperation.