The Real Power of the Ring!

[Grond]

The Book describes the Ring as an all powerful thing that would allow Sauron to dominate the world. How on earth would it do any such thing? UT goes into great detail concerning the power of the One Ring. It's real power was to allow it to rule and dominate the other 19 Rings of Power.

By the end of the Third Age Sauron had already enslaved the Ringwraiths and had the nine in his possession. He had recovered 3 or 4 of the Dwarves Rings (the others perished in Dragon-fire) and he had already discovered that the Three (when confronted with a Ring toting Sauron) would simply be removed by their bearers if and when Sauron ever donned the One.

My question is this.... What was the real power of the Ruling Ring. The way I see it... it was the only tool that could lead to Sauron's final and complete defeat. :)

[Sindarin]

The stories of the Unfinished Tales aside, the true power of the One Ring, at least as it was explained in the film, is the power to dominate.

Sauron created the ring with his own blood included into the molten gold, and with that, pure evil. :evil:

Yet that's only one of many endless theories we can discuss.
:)

[Maedhros]

Well, Sauron having served Morgoth was in a way touched by his master.
Morgoth, used his power in the nature of Arda while Sauron used his in his ring.
Sauron not only wanted to conquer, he wanted to dominate the wills of everyone in ME.
Sometimes you have to pay the price for your goals and Sauron did just that.

[TheRingBearer]

And how come he doesn't turn invisible when he wears it?

[Undomiel]

i reckon its coz he's the one being that controls the ring instead of it having control over him, so he doesnt diasppear. Like Tom Bombadil coz the ring didnt have any power over him (though obv. Tom was good)

[Algamesh]

This is an EXCELLENT question !!!

You know ... I've always assumed that the Ruling Ring lent some general omnipotence to it's bearer but now that I think about it - nothing is ever mentioned about what the Ring could enhance or provide (apart from invisibility) ...

I think maybe the reason Sauron needed it back was because he put a large part of his own life-force into it. He needed the Ring to be a complete entity.

We should explore this further! How was Boromir proposing to "Use" it against the forces of Mordor ...

[Catz]

yeah ive always thought of it like that too Algy....the ring would not so much ADD to Sauron as complete him....
as for Boromir he made the classic mistake of all fighting men in assuming that an object of power was a weapon, which is not always the case. his first thought was to use the ring. the fact that he did not realise the danger of it, illustrates the fact that he did not understand the nature of the thing...and i dont think he had any more idea of how to use it than anyone else....indeed i dont think it could be used as such....i dont think, as ive already said, that thats how the ring worked....
:catz:

[TheRingBearer]

I agree with you there Algamesh. Since Sauron has commited basically his life to the ring, it's logical that he should have control over it. After all he did create it in the first place.

[Narsil's weilder]

The power of the one ring is to control and domoinate. Look what he could do with 9 kings! If he had the ring again he could very well make all the ring bearers slaves and bid them to inslave all Middle-earth.

Sauron made all the men of his land slaves and warriors but after the passing of the one ring they all became normal men and were set free by Aragon. I think this ring has the power of greed to manipulate all of us, it would be easy for him to have all of Middle earth against them. :flamer:

[Fatty]

Hmmm well the Ring had amny powers. Invisibility to some, extended life, increased their innate powers. It also gave the bearer to dominate the wills o fthe other rings.

The real power of the Ring was in Saurons hands. The Ring enhanced Saurons power. Without it he was not missing any of his power, it was just not enhanced. You can see that the Ring being part of Sauron had much the same effects. It influenced and bent peoples thoughts and deeds to its and therefore Saurons ideas.

So you can see how he woud have dominated ME. His powers of persuation and corruption would have been magnified. Trapping and tricking people threough greed, etc.

Anyway thats what I get from it. You can find more details in The Letters of Tolkien etc.

[Narsil's weilder]

Well you bring up a good point. His title is 'Sauron the Deceiver.'

[Grond]

Originally posted by Narsil's weilder
The power of the one ring is to control and domoinate. Look what he could do with 9 kings! If he had the ring again he could very well make all the ring bearers slaves and bid them to inslave all Middle-earth...Sauron created the Ruling Ring to "RULE" the others. And in this, except in the case of the Nine for Men, he failed miserably.The very dominion he most wanted to dominate was the Chosen Firstborn of Iluvator and he was unsuccessful in doing so. The Elves recognised Sauron and they took off their Rings.

So... Sauron had placed the greater part of his Power in the One Ring and it back-fired. Instead of creating a device that would enslave The Elves, he created the only device on Middle-earth which could lead to his own undoing.

The Ring was Sauron's greatest failing. ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I think the Ring could have dominated all the wills in ME. This is why Sauron made it (im aware im parroting here but hold on). I think it was a formidible weapon and Gondor could have defeated Mordor with it. It's power was great and it would have enslaved ME. Also Galadriel says she could use it and defat Sauron... by knowing his mind, knowing what was going on with him. I think the Ring could be used by anyone strong enough.
The Ring wasn't Sauron's downfall or failing. Frodo was. I think the RIng would give victory to any who used it, though this victory would be evil.
Most people who read Tolkein's books assume the RIng is a weapon. I hence believe he wanted us to think that, ergo, it is so.




And I am NOT going to get into a debate over this so if you disagree with me don't expect me to reply.

to end on a happy note:
:)

[Moria]

I know that I am probably going to repeat a lot of what was said, but this is what I think. The Ring was both Sauron's greatest achievement and his biggest downfall. Because he is the one who made it, it was in his hands that the ring had its full power. This power was to dominate the other rings, and in doing so, it would dominate all of ME. The ring however, being such a major part of him, was also the one thing that could lead to his distruction in the hands of the "Right" person, Frodo.

[Daisy Gamgee]

IMO the ring would not have given everyone who used it victory - whether this victory had evil repurcusions or not - it is too powerful for a mortal man to use and i think Borimor shows his arrogance by suggesting he could use it - which turns out to be a fatal flaw.

Also, if the ring had been used against Saurons army, they may have been able to hold off his army and defeat Sauron, but surely while the ring was in existence so was Sauron - he had been defeated once before, and returned, what was to stop him doing so again?
Maybe the ring held some sort of life force for him, of which he drew power and was able to continue on living, while his body was dead.
Both Galadriel and Gandalf refused to use the ring - maybe this was because they knew that while the ring existed, Sauron would be able to return to power, or if not that, his force would continue to exist while the ring existed and so turning the victory of Gandalf or Galadriel evil, and therefore even if Sauron was destroyed his power would live on through whoever.

As to whether the ring was intended to be thought of as a weapon, it didn't show any evidence as to its capabilities as such - it presented itself as enhancing the power of Sauron, the person it was made for, but that was about it.

Another quesiton i think this topic throws up is to how Gandalf and Galadriel could have used it - would it enhance their power as it did to Sauron? Chances are this is right, they are both already powerful in their own ways.

(ok, sssh now Daisy)

[Algamesh]

Actually, I don't believe the Ring was really a weapon. I believe that all references to it as weaponry are metaphorical. The power of the Ring was it's ability to enable the wearer to dominate others. A reference is made in the saga about the Ring conferring powers according to the stature of the bearer. So, for it to be used effectively, the bearer must be a being of powerful presence to begin with. I think it would have allowed Boromir a certain presence and power over those who were less willful ... but, he would have still been susceptible to defeat from stronger wills ... Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Sauron, etc.

So why does Sauron fear the Ring will go to Gondor? There is only one person in Gondor who might contend with the Will of Sauron and that person is the Lost King. Sauron has probably heard whispers of Isildur's line re-emerging ... Sauron would not fear Boromir with the Ring, IMO.

[Daisy Gamgee]

I suppose Aragorn did show great power being able to withstand the temptation, so he may have been able to dominate the ring, whereas Boromir didn't have the power because he couldn't resist the temptation.

[PrinceImrahil]

I think the ring gives power according to the character of the one who bears it. For the hobbits(Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, and Smeagol) the ring gives invisibility, since hobbits dont like being bothered by the "Big People" and need no greater luxury. But to Gandalf or Galadriel, the ring would give not invisibility, but raw power (like the stuff you see when Galadriel takes her test by the mirror) and the power to control and dominate others. To Aragorn and Boromir, it would give leadership, and raise the morale of people fighting with them. And to Sauron the ring gives enhanced and completed power to rule ME.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I agree with you PrinceImrahil. I also think the RIng was a weapon. I think that perhaps the hobbits had to undergo some serious will changing before they could use it as such though.

But what you said made a lot of sense.

[Narsil's weilder]

Good thoughts, PrinceImrahil. There is alot to back that up and it makes perfect sense.

[Grond]

I think the book only refers to the Ring's ability to dominate and control the other Rings. And it failed miserably in doing that. The only control Sauron gained was over the Nine he gave to Man. If it gave him such great powers of domination, why did he meekly submit to the combined power of Numenor in the Second Age? Even with the Ring's power backing him, it took him years to corrupt and sway the Numenorean people to his will and he still didn't pervert all of them. The Faithful remained faithful. Again, it seems to me the Ring was a miserable failure and the only real power it possessed was the Power to destroy Sauron.

[Narsil's weilder]

But if you think about it, Grond, time is nothing to Sauron. He effectivley took over Middle Earth and dominated it til the Last Alliance fought him at Mt. Doom. When the ring was cut from his hand, it was a freak accident. In battle no one probably ever got that close to him.

[Algamesh]

Grond may have a point here. Even when Sauron had crafted the One Ring where was the "big boom"?

The Dwarves resisted him and the Elves paid him no heed apart from hiding their own Rings so he could not claim them. Men fell to him but only the bearers ... not their Kingdoms. Well, actually he did have a relationship with the southern kingdoms but that wasn't due to the Ring.

Sauron may have fashioned his own demise for nothing! What say you guys?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Well I've said it before Grond and I'll say it again... I think the ring was very powerful... and after all Sauron did destroy Numenor... which took quite a bit of power... and the book refers to the rings dominion over all wills, not just those wielding the rings... and it didn't fail too miserably except for the fact that Sauron didn't have the ring....

K Algy I disagree... um Sauron got the kingdoms of men too... what do you think happened to Arnor? I know that its noe exactly Sauron's but it certainly fell thanks to him...

Elves were very worried etc. thats what galadriel told us they just didnt realize at the time how potent the ring was... the dwarves rings were destroyed/taken...

[Grond]

Originally posted by Tar-Ancalimë
Well I've said it before Grond and I'll say it again... I think the ring was very powerful... and after all Sauron did destroy Numenor... which took quite a bit of power... and the book refers to the rings dominion over all wills, not just those wielding the rings... and it didn't fail too miserably except for the fact that Sauron didn't have the ring....Sauron did not destroy Numenor... Eru did that little feat. And Ar-Pharazon was already well on his way to challenging the Powers of Middle-earth without Sauron. All Sauron did was give him a push. I argue to you again, if the Ring made Sauron all powerful, why did he meekly submit to Numenor? Tolkien's writings make it clear that he was genuinely defeated. That was not some sub-plot he had.K Algy I disagree... um Sauron got the kingdoms of men too... what do you think happened to Arnor? I know that its noe exactly Sauron's but it certainly fell thanks to him... Here I agree with you. Sauron's dominion over the Lord of the Ring-wraiths is what allowed him to set up the Witch-king of Angmar who effectively ended the realm of Arnor.Elves were very worried etc. thats what galadriel told us they just didnt realize at the time how potent the ring was... the dwarves rings were destroyed/taken... You have this wrong too. Celebrimbor immediately sensed Sauron as did all the other Elves who bore Rings. Rather than come under his dominion, they simply took them off. They knew that if they kept them on, Sauron would come to dominate them. The Dwarves Rings were first given to the Dwarves by Sauron. He gave them to the Dwarves, hoping to subvert them but failed miserably. The Dwarves were of a hard sort who did not suffer the dominion of others. All that is right out of the books. When Sauron realized he couldn't subvert the Dwarves, he sought to recover those Rings and did recover all those that weren't destroyed by Dragonfire.

I ask everyone again....."SHOW ME THE MONEY" or power as it were. :)

[Bonos-Girl]

I think that it enhanced the most powerful aspect of it's wearers personality/skill......hobbits become invisable because they are very good at hiding from us.....sauron was good at manipulating people/creatures and the ring made this more powerful......
just a thought.....

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ai-yi-yi!!! why do I keep starting these debates?? I can never finish them... why oh why? anyway... I guess I enjoy it... :)

so pfbbt... argue on!

Sauron did not destroy Numenor... Eru did that little feat. mmm... I suppose I did say Sauron destoyed Numenor, didn't I? My apologies... I meant he was a major catalyst in its downfall... do we agree on this?
I argue to you again, if the Ring made Sauron all powerful, why did he meekly submit to Numenor? he didn't have the ring any more... we're arguing about the real power of the ring... so this doesn't apply too much. Tolkien's writings make it clear that he was genuinely defeated. That was not some sub-plot he had. genuinely defeated to the last alliance, no? Then why are we arguing about Numenor... I suppose I've missed something [i]again/i]... sigh. I didn't argue that Sauron was all powerful without the ring... (nor with it if it comes to that.)Here I agree with you. :) You have this wrong too. Celebrimbor immediately sensed Sauron as did all the other Elves who bore Rings. Rather than come under his dominion, they simply took them off. They knew that if they kept them on, Sauron would come to dominate them. The ruling ring was made at the same time as the others, no? And the elven realms were wrough using the elven rings... therefore the ruling ring had to be in existence then... they didnt either take them off, cause they thought the One Ring lost so they used their own rings... how else do you explain Galdriel's (and Elrond's too) fear of the One Ring coming again??? Because it would have given Sauron power over the elven rings... hence my point: domination. The Dwarves Rings were first given to the Dwarves by Sauron. He gave them to the Dwarves, hoping to subvert them but failed miserably. The Dwarves were of a hard sort who did not suffer the dominion of others. All that is right out of the books. When Sauron realized he couldn't subvert the Dwarves, he sought to recover those Rings and did recover all those that weren't destroyed by Dragonfire. which he did, quite effectively! hence, Sauron had mastery in the end... why were we arguing about dwarven rings again?? I forget.

Oh well. I'm a hopeless case, what can I say? Anyway, the point I'm trying to argue is that which states the Ruling Ring does in fact give Sauron dominion over the wills of ME... I'm not sure how my arguements prove that but what the hey :)

What's your thesis, Grond? I didn't get ti clearly. Maybe if I read your older posts but who has that much time on their hands?

[Grond]

A little Ring history apparently is in order. from The Lord of the Rings, Appendix B, Tale of the Years
c. 1200 - Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-galad refuses to treat with him; but the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans begin to make permanent havens.
c. 1500 - The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power.
c. 1590 - The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.
c. 1600 - Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dûr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.
1693 - War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are Hidden.
1695 - Sauron's forces invade Eriador. Gil-galad sends Elrond to Eregion.
1697 - Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.
1699 - Sauron overruns Eriador.
1700 - Tar-Minastir sends a great navy from Númenor to Lindon. Sauron is defeated.
1701 - Sauron is driven out of Eriador. The Westlands have peace for a long while.From this chronology we see that the 19 Great Rings were forged over 90 years. They were allowed to operate unimpeded for 10 years. Once the Ruling Ring was forged in 1600, the Elves realized they were betrayed and, rather than being subverted to Sauron's will, they simply took off the Ring. This prompted the War of Elves and Sauron in 1693 and ultimately eneded in the death of Celebrimbor in 1697 and Sauron's recovery of all the Great Elvish Rings except for the Three.

[Illuvatar]

19 Rings?.......hmmm?

I would assume that you meant 9? lol

But thanks for the timeline!

[Grond]

Originally posted by Tar-Ancalimë
mmm... I suppose I did say Sauron destoyed Numenor, didn't I? My apologies... I meant he was a major catalyst in its downfall... do we agree on this?He was, indeed, a major catalyst but it was already clear that Ar-Pharazon would likely have challenged the West without Sauron's prompting.
he didn't have the ring any more... we're arguing about the real power of the ring... so this doesn't apply too much. genuinely defeated to the last alliance, no?Why do you say that Sauron didn't have the Ring. He most certainly possessed it when the Numenoreans army challenged him. Tolkien, in his Letters also makes it clear that Sauron even had the Ring in his keeping while he was a prisoner in Numenor though he did not wear it. The ruling ring was made at the same time as the others, no? And the elven realms were wrough using the elven rings... therefore the ruling ring had to be in existence then... they didnt either take them off, cause they thought the One Ring lost so they used their own rings... how else do you explain Galdriel's (and Elrond's too) fear of the One Ring coming again??? Because it would have given Sauron power over the elven rings... hence my point: domination. which he did, quite effectively! hence, Sauron had mastery in the end... why were we arguing about dwarven rings again?? I forget.I'm lost as to where you're going here. Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf used the power of the Elven Rings quite effectively after Sauron was defeated after the Last Alliance when the Ruling Ring was lost. They continued to use the Rings even after the Ruling Ring was discovered. They feared the One Ring because if it was regained by Sauron, they would again be forced to cease using the Power of their Rings as Sauron would be able to control them otherwise.

My question is and has been, What is the real power of the Ring? My argument is that it was meant to enslave the world and yet the only peoples it ended up enslaving were men. Dwarves were able to use their Rings even when Sauron wielded the One and the Elves were not enslaved, merely unable to use their Three Rings at any time while Sauron possessed the one.

And finally, I continue to wonder, if the Ring was such a weapon of power, why did Sauron meekly submit to the Numenorean Fleet that confronted him when he was taken prisoner to Numenor? He had the Ring. He had his army, yet his army deserted him when confronted with the might of Numenor. That makes no sense to me and is a major weakness in the entire plot line of the works.

[Grond]

Originally posted by Illuvatar
19 Rings?.......hmmm?

I would assume that you meant 9? lol

But thanks for the timeline! I meant 19.
Three Rings forh the Elven-kings under the sky, (made by Elves)
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, (made by Elves)
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, (made by Elves)....

3 + 7 + 9 = 19

[Catz]

i have never thought of the ring as a weapon as such....my feeling is that yes, it had power over the other rings...that was why it was created....Saruon learned the secrets of the creation of the other rings for expressly that purpose, but i also think that he invested the ring with a portion of his own power, very much as in fairy tales when an ogre or creature hides its heart away.....it becomes invulnerable, because to be totally destroyed both it and its heart must be destroyed...as with Sauron......without the ring he was functional but not at his full power....the race to destroy the ring was not so much to get rid of a weapon, but to stop Sauron from fully regaining his power.....as for Galadriel or Gandalf using the ring....possibly they could....the ring itself had sentience from the power that Sauron had invested it with....but that sentience was evil...it would corrupt any but the very strongest, and while they may have been able to control it the risk would have been formiddable...
:catz:

[Illuvatar]

Augh!! hehehe...lol

First thing in the morning and I can't count!! :blush: :blush: :blush:

All in all it's 20 rings including the one ring! lol

Sheesh! For a webmaster of a Tolkien website to make a blunder like that! roflmao

<Hangs head in shame, and shuffles off to work on shop pages like he should be>

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ah well I think the ring was quite important... after all where would the plot of lotr be if it wasnt as important as some people seem to be thinking...
i mean by saying its a weapon that sauron can conquer the divded middle earth with it. that's my def. of a formidable weopon!
anyway Grond, thanks for debating with me.

ah, Illu... what are we going to do with you?? perhaps we need to apply some where else for more extensive an accurate Tolkien knowledge... any replacement suggestions???
(j/k Illu...)

[Grond]

I've enjoyed discussing this topic with one and all. Tar, your incite and input has been fun. I, too, believe the Ring is the most central and integral component of the world of Middle-earth and it is undoubtedly a powerful talisman filled with the "essence" of Sauron. I would rather that it have been portrayed that way. After all, it appeared that Sauron was about to cover the world in darkness again, even without the Ruling Ring. As it turned out, the Ring was his undoing. He would have been better off had he never made it.

Illuvator, ealier today on another forum, we were discussing the TT Trailer. I ended posting "what's with Denethor telling Arwen to take his people to Helm's Deep and not to Edoras?"

I ended up having to post a chart which said.

Oopssss!!!
Denethor = Theoden
Arwen = Eowyn
Edoras = Dunharrow

We all make mistakes... the way you tell a honest and truly nice person is their ability to admit when they make them. :);):thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Grond
He would have been better off had he never made it. sure, in retrospect... everyone always knows everything in retrospect... (j/k I enjoyed debating with you too)



Well, admit your mistakes, do, but please admit them in the forum in which you made them so as not to get off-topic here.



Anyway: The Real Power of the Ring:
Well, you guys have shared some really interesting ideas. I learned a lot and also I hope I taught a lot!

[Illuvatar]

Well, I think it would have been difficult for Grond to post his mistake anywhere on these boards, as it was on another site completly! lol Grond was just trying to make this old man feel better. ;) And thanks........

I personally think the real power of the ring was the malice poured into it, and as such was intended just to be a tool in which Sauron could try and spread his evil. And as is quite often the case, evil plans by evil doers rarely follow any logical path. This is mainly due to the evil doer not taking into account the power of good. So a device like this, that may have been secretly created in the hopes that it would control ALL the other rings, ended up controling only rings borne by individuals who's motives may or not been so pure out the gate!

And for this example, Tolkien used Men as they desired power over all else! Throughout history those who desire power are quite often the ones who surrender moral and ethical values for this power and are hence corruptable. IMHO (of course)

[Grond]

Originally posted by Illuvatar
Well, I think it would have been difficult for Grond to post his mistake anywhere on these boards, as it was on another site completly! lol Grond was just trying to make this old man feel better. ;) And thanks........ You're welcome!!! And you are hardly an "old man". I'm 14 years your senior and I still consider myself a young man, albeit one who is 48 years old. ;)

[Daisy Gamgee]

Originally posted by Grond
You're welcome!!! And you are hardly an "old man". I'm 14 years your senior and I still consider myself a young man, albeit one who is 48 years old. ;)

48 years isn't old (but don't tell my dad I said that!!) you've plenty of life in you, and we don't need to put you down just yet ;) its a cliche but you're only as old as you feel, and i personally want to be 21 for a few years yet, and i definately don't want to grow up just yet!!

Back to topic, Illu, good point about desiring power leads you to surrender morals and values. Frodo managed to bear the ring until the end because he didn't desire power - as with all Hobbits, he was content with his life in the Shire, and didn't need or want anything more in his life, apart from maybe a small adventure (but he definatley didn't expect the adventure he got!). Because he was happy, he couldn't see a way that the ring could increase that happiness.

men, on the other hand, can sometimes be manipulated with the promise of gaining whatever they want- be it somebody saying "if you do this for me, I could see about that car you want" or in the case of many wars and battles, its if you help me to win and conquer, you can be my right hand man. If that is what you desire, its easy to forget about what you may be doing wrong in your race to get there. Also if somebody was to offer you a means to the end that you desire above all else, its easy to go in blinkered and not see the real truth behind the offer - kinda like the trojan horse.

(hope this made sense - probably not knowing the usual stuff i'm known to come out with!! and hope i didn't repeat anything to much!:grin: )

[Tar-Ancalimë]

it made sense... but you're generalizing... :angry:: my Aragorn hottie isn't like that!!!

(j/k ofc)

[Mirkgirl]

The ring is a weapon in the same sense that we say that brain or speach are weapons.
However it's much like the other weapons - if you have never touched a bow in your life, you'd hardly even stretch the cord. The ring is a "weapon" in another sense - more spiritual one. As you need a fit hand and sharp eye to use a bow, the same way you need a certain spiritual powers to use the ring. However they cannot be aquired like the bow ones (take anyone and you'd make a decent warrior of him/her for few months). You have to have them precursory to be able to use it.
Here it comes the magical powers, not so magical, but I like to think about the ring like a separate consciousness, part of Sauron's. As it's not something unlive like the bow, which is just a thing in unable hands, the ring cannot be just a thing. So it gives the weilder some power, enough to keep him satisfied - invisibility, longer life and you get a happy hobbit. Fish and orcs for food, safety away from the Sun and you get a satisfied Gollum.
Even if you have the powers to receive the entire power of the ring, it's still a separate consciousness, a extremely evil and crafty one it gradually changes every good or not so good intention converts into a part of the evil scheme for which the ring was made - the ultimate enslaving of ME, this is its own go.
The reason for making the ring IMO is to prove the enemy, the elves, the good that you can be better in its own field, you can be the best in his own game. And subconsciously that the good side has 'technology' which can be used the right way and win the war. Maybe a flash from Melkor's obsession with the Silmarils, as the smith of the rings was a heir of Feanor.
When the work (subordinating the other rings) failed maybe he didn't know how to reverse the process and get the power back from the ring.
But maybe the ring didn't work for one thing but was good for another. If my conception of ring with its own consciousness, which is a reduced duplicate of Saurons' it's handy to have only tiny copy of you, with which you're in perfect coherence and so on.

hmm I'm pretty sure I lost everyone here... anyway I hope at least the main idea is clear

[Daisy Gamgee]

Originally posted by Tar-Ancalimë
it made sense... but you're generalizing... :angry:: my Aragorn hottie isn't like that!!!

(j/k ofc)

Ahh, but Aragorn is no normal man!. he grew up with the elves and IMO(not sure if this is correct or not) the time he spent with th elves must have instilled in him some of their beliefs, and he was aware that the ring could not help him in anyway.. he had a strong belief in himself and knew that he would rightully be placed as king and so he had no need to use the ring for what he desired he knew he would have any way.

[Catz]

you didnt lose me Mirky....and i agree with you...the Rings power depends on the power of the one wielding it

The reason for making the ring IMO is to prove the enemy, the elves, the good that you can be better in its own field, you can be the best in his own game.

i love that idea, and it has a lot of merit.....typical of Saurons hubris....great post Mirky mouse:thumbs: :naughty: ;) *catz runs for it before Mirky can find a trout*
:catz:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Daisy Gamgee
Ahh, but Aragorn is no normal man!. he grew up with the elves and IMO(not sure if this is correct or not) the time he spent with th elves must have instilled in him some of their beliefs, and he was aware that the ring could not help him in anyway.. he had a strong belief in himself and knew that he would rightully be placed as king and so he had no need to use the ring for what he desired he knew he would have any way. aw daisy i was joking. i know, he's not anormal man!!! :naughty:


Originally posted by Mirkgirl
(take anyone and you'd make a decent warrior of him/her for few months) hey i like your ideas Irky, but one thing, you can't always make a warrior out of someone, I have been trying to learn to fence since my freshman year in college and I am still so lousy. tho i know this is only one minor thing you wrote in parenthesis, i still wanted to pick on you :p (kidding)

[Bonos-Girl]

and there's always liv tyler.....

[Mirkgirl]

I said a decent one, meaning that he/she will be able to do something in a real battle. You know when you just have to do something... and for Liv, I think she would be able to manage if she's trained and her life is threatened, she just cannot look good doing this. (don't remember this the next time I diss her)
lol, catz I won't trout you this time... just remember I am not food roflmao lol roflmao and yes this goes to most evils

[Gil Galad]

sorry if this is repeating an old tread,but if so, im sure one of you great kind Mods could move this to the original, thank you.

ok, we know that the Ring has power correponding to the power of its wielder, but what form does that power take:

on the hobbits and Smeagol, it merely made them invisible, a useful trick, but nonetheless not something that would pose a huge treat to the world

on Sauron it allowed him to read into the thoughts of others (i think), and also allowed them to get a glimpse of his thoughts(and so the Elves hide the Three). but it didnt make him invisible (i assume because he is a maia and is therefore in both the wraith world and the physical world all the time)

now we can see from these that with extremes of power(hobbits lack of power, sauron strong power) that the Ring has different effects. but what effect did it have on Isildur, it seemed to have hold on him aright and it made him invisible, but did it give him any other benefits
and did sauron get any other benefits apart form, reading thoughts and knowing where the other rings were