Melian's Change

[Maedhros]

After Thingol died, why was Melian changed. Why were her powers diminished?
But now Thingol lay dead, and his spirit had passed to the halls of Mandos; and with his death a change came also upon Melian. Thus it came to pass that her power was withdrawn in that time from the forests of Neldoreth and Region, and Esgalduin the enchanted river spoke with a different voice, and Doriath lay open to its enemies.
Was it the Power of Love? Was it Morgoth's power that had become greater? Was it a design of Manwë?
Why did she abandon her people?
Thereafter Melian spoke to none save to Mablung only, bidding him take heed to the Silmaril, and to send word speedily to Beren and Lúthien in Ossiriand; and she vanished out of Middle-earth, and passed to the land of the Valar beyond the western sea, to muse upon her sorrows in the gardens of Lórien, whence she came, and this tale speaks of her no more.

[Illuvatar]

I think it was mainly borne out of love for Thingol and the mourning of his loss. I think that Tolkien represented a very common theme here that still holds true today.

There are statistics that show a very strong life bond between couples that have been together for a number of years. Apparently, when one spouse passes, the suriving partner dies within 12 months in somewhere like the 95% range.

This shows a deep connectivity between love and life force, and I think Tolkien in his way expressed this bond in Melian's actions.

Without her spouse, she was basically done with Middle Earth and ready to move on. It says her power was withdrawn, NOT diminished, which would also support this. To me, that means that she withdrew the power that she was pouring out to protect the lands.

[Finrod Felagund]

Illuvatar pretty well summed it up and effectively killed this thread
my $0.02:
And technically she belonged in Valinor, without Thingol and not being elven,she had no reason to stay. Her only child was mortal and would soon pass.

[Maedhros]

Well, what about her people, the Teleri under Thingol?

[Finrod Felagund]

I suppose she succumbed to her grief and left, I don't think Maia had the option to die of grief. Her grandson Dior finally came and ruled Menegroth, but I can't remember if it was before or after she left.

[Lady Melody]

No, no, no... Don't you read the book well??

Melian is one of the Ainur, out of 14 of 'em if I'm not mistaken, and that means that she's not exactly of Elves,humans,halflings or any Children of Iluvatar on Middle-Earth.

When she married Thingol, a bond somehow formed about her and Thingol, and that bond somehow ensures her Ainur powers, which is protecting Thingol's kingdom, while it let her bore Luthien, her doomed daughter and forgive me, I don't exactly memorize the whole family three.

So, anyways, when this bond was severed, which is due to Thingol's untimely death, automaticly the power that was protecting the kingdom (ere Melian's powers) failed, and understandably Melian was VERY upset about Thingol's death, so she sailed to the west to nurse her sadness (and who knows, be reunited with her husband), to the land of Valinor (correct me if I'm wrong) where she belonged in the first place as an Ainur. Where this story leads, I don't recall much.

And THAT, is why her powers dimished. Hope I answered your question!

[Maedhros]

No, no, no... Don't you read the book well??
Yes, I do.
And THAT, is why her powers dimished. Hope I answered your question!
But why did she abandoned her people then? Their King was dead, she was the queen, didn't she owe her subjects something?
It is especially when times like this where the kings are needed the most.

[Catz]

well the workings of the heart are seldom logical Meadhros...be that heart mortal or Maia....shed given up so much to be with Thingol....to have him gone irredeemably and her daughter sharing the mortal fate....ie: to be beyond her reach, may very well have been unbearable to her....i cant say that i could find it in my heart to blame her for her course...sometimes when a hurt runs deep its all one can do to think of oneself, never mind anyone else....that section of thier story is the most convincing of the whole thing i feel......the most real if you see what i mean....
:catz:

[Lady Melody]

Look, try to look at poor Melian's point of view;

1) Her most beloved daughter, Luthien, who happens to be the most beautiful maiden at that time, chose a mortal life with a mortal who's gonna die in a day (as it seems to an immortal) and that she'd live to see Luthien die, and that she is already in grief.
2) Then because of the Silmaris (one of the three), and a necklace of the dwarves of old which is highly prized, her husband, King Thingol got himself killed over some lousy (all right, so the Silmaris is serious business) trinkets when he was underground in a workshop with some dwarves who decided they wanted the necklace and the jewel to boot!

In other words, she lost almost everything of worth to her in Middle-Earth, and lost control of her most beloved daughter's fate...

Talk about a bad time huh? mecry

Hey, lots of us normal humans go into depression, attempts of suicide, and got sent to secluded asylums when a lover leaves us, or died on us or whatever...

Wakeup call? Give Melian a break, will ya?pfbbt

[Finrod Felagund]

Ainur yes,
A maia to be exact and there were many more than 14,
I think I'm starting to see Maedhros's point...
Bad time?, she's deserting all those that love her and depend on her, leaving them to the tender mercies of Morgoth's toadies, basically defensless. The Elves of Doriath had the Girdle of Melian to keep out the Orcs, now, nothing. From a romantic, singular point of view, her actions make sense, a lover succumbing to grief. From a larger point of view it seems rather selfish. If I were an Elf in Doriath and Melian was leaving b/c her husband had been murdered and daughter would die, I'd be sad and feel bad for her loss but what about my family and friends and thier families who now have no protection from the Orcs and wolves and other beasties that now have free reign of Doriath.
She wasn't human or elf , she was a Maia, a lesser GODDESS
And a queen with subjects who were in dire need of her and her strength

[Maedhros]

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Thanks Longshot.:naughty:

[Finrod Felagund]

oh, yeah...
My only explanatioin is her grief overcame her duties to her people and... JRR said so... which seems to be a common theme to the answers to your questions

[Catz]

yes i know what youre getting at...and yes it was a terrible thing to do......but by making her do that, i think Tolkien is trying to get across the depth of her pain.....of course, typically....being a woman in a Tolkien piece she responded emotionally rather than dutifully....but thats a reflection of Tolkiens beliefs about women really...and in this case i think it works, tho had Melian been male im sure shed have done the honourable thing.....but to the detriment of the storys power i think.....
:catz:

[Lady Melody]

Well, I guess I was taking sides..
You guys were right....

But still, she was pretty upset... and a couple of hundred/thousand years together cannot just be taken lightly (considering me as a girl), I'd go nuts too, so to speak.

Isn't in intriguing, when you guys put it this way, that Tolkien somehow describes that women are too dang emotional for their own good? Whaddayathink?

[Finrod Felagund]

I could really get in trouble Chibi... so I won't say nothin

Although...

Galadriel is portrayed as a very strong character, I got the impression that she was the power in that marriage, Celeborn seemed somewhat of an accessory. He followed her I think. Most unusual for a Tolkien female. I think she would have been like her brothers and cousins, ruling alone, if Tolkien had portrayed her as male (does that make any sense?). If I'm not mistaken, he even says she was the most powerful Elf second to Feanor, that's no small compliment. (Those with more Tolkienknowledge please correct if erroneous)
She and Eowyn seem to be masculine Tolkien characters in feminine bodies trying to fulfill their own destinies, not ones chosen by others. Maybe Prof T. was trying to be a little progressive with these characters, women bucking the system and succeding in spite of it. (How's that for a can of worms?)

[Catz]

Actually he only added Eowyn to please his daughter....and have you noticed?....while he may have female characters whith great power, you rarely see them "doing" anything.....
I dont think the Prof was any different from any other male of his generation, with his middle class upbringing, tho...and its not a problem for me...
and yeah Longshot....the very fact that Celeborn was there is indicative....i too think that had Galadriel been male she/hed have ruled alone....
:catz:

[Lady Melody]

Tolkien did it to please his daughter? Hrmm... would you care to tell us more of it?

[Catz]

well...while LOTR was being written, it was being read to the Profs children as a sort of serial...as well as to others like CS Lewis and the inklings.....but his daughter complained that there werent any good female characters, so Eowyn was born of that...tho i suspect she was already on the cards, tho not as she finally appeared i would imagine....
:catz:

[Elf angel]

:mmmm:..that's interesting..
:evilcool:

[Lady Melody]

Hahaha... GO Miss Tolkien!