JeffF.
November 13th,2006, 08:03 PM
This is a re-posting of an old thread of mine, I always welcome fresh pertpective
It has long been an interest of mine to determine the approximate size of the armies of Middle Earth around the time of the War of the Ring. I would like to run my conclusions past the readers and participants of the forum to see if anyone has any additional information to add or suggestions to make. My sources are the LOTR trilogy Ballantine paperbacks Fellowship of the Ring (FR), The Twin Towers (TT), Return of the King (RK), the Hobbit(H), Unfinished Tales (UT) and Lost Tales (LT1&2).
Army of Rohan. 12,000-13,000. This was the easiest because UT states plainly that the full muster of Rohan was 100 eoreds each not less than 120 riders. It also states that doubtless many more than 12,000 could be mustered so that Theoden would not leave his strongholds undefended even if he did ride with the full muster to Gondor.
Army of Gondor. 20,000-21,000. This is based on Imrahil's comment at the last debate (RK) that the size of the force they were sending against Mordor (seven thousand) was scarcely the size of the vanguard of the army in the days of its strength. In Medieval armies the vanguard is almost universally 1/3 of the total force. This is also based on the approximate size of the garrison of Minas Tirith (after being reinforced from the fiefs) which I reckon at about 6,000 (3,000 from the fiefs and the estimate of 3,000 in the usual garrison--based on Aragorn's statements at Last Debate on the strength coming up from the South and the number of defenders being left behind being at least as strong as prior to the siege.
Army of Thranduil. 3,000. This is based on his strength at the Battle of Five Armies (H) where he had 1,000 elvish spearmen and the estimate of 1,000 bowmen (the bow being the best known weapon of the Wood Elves) and the determination that he would not have left his forest stronghold unguarded (a reasonable guess that he would not have taken any more than 2/3 of his available warriors).
Army of Dain. 2,000 This is based on the strength of Dain's force at the battle of Five Armies (H) 500 axe bearing dwarves (a force solely from the iron Hills), the fact that Thorin requested that the ravens bear word to his kin in the north, west and east (of whom only the iron Hills dwarves had arrived) and the fact that Gimli states that they had increased in strength by the time of the War of the Ring.
Army of Dale. 2,000. This is a tenous number based on Bard's force at the battle of Five Armies, the men and dwarves were in one wing and the elves in the other (H). There were 500 dwarves, 1,000 elf-spearmen (and my estimated 1,000 elf-bowmen) so I would anticipate that the dwarves and men together were at least near to the size of the elf wing say 1,000 men plus the 500 dwarves) and the fact that Gimli states that King Brand ruled "many men" and his land extended south and east. A look at the map shows that the logical bounds for such a realm are the rivers Running and Redwater, about half the size of Rohan or a little bigger than Lebinin in Gondor. This area had been severely depopulated but was since on the mend since the demise of Smaug.
Woodmen and Beornings 1,200. This is based on the incident of Isildur's death as told in UT. The woodmen got together a force to contest the 2,000+ orcs that attacked Isildur and his 200 man guard. Given the inferior fighting qualities of orcs it would still require a significant force (say half the number as the orc host plus they would not have left their homes unguarded. Since there were no Beornings at the time of the hobbit I assumed they were one people that divided (but kept their cultural ties) by the time of the War and they had a relatively stable population (a great achievement given the evil things that were on the increase in Mirkwood).
Army of Lorien 3,500-4,000. This is based on my estimate of the total of Thranduil's army and the various statements in UT that say by the time of the War that most of the Silvan elves lived in Lorien as opposed to Greenwood (which had been opposite in the Second Age)
Hobbitry in Arms. 700-1000. In the Scouring of the Shire (RK) it states that the hobbits numbered several thousand (definitely not including Bree and probably not including those of Buckland either). It is unclear whether these were only the hobbits of Hobbiton but it definitely does include females and children. Given the size of the force at Bywater this number is a reasonable estimate for the total force available to the Thain for defense.
Woses 1,400. I estimate the Woses in the Druadan forest only numbered a few hundred based on their ability to screen (in the forest) Theoden's march but that their kin in the Druwaith Iaur may have numbered around 1,000 since they were able to destroy the remnants of Saruman's army fleeing south from the battle with the Rohirrim (UT)
High Elves 1,500. I estimate that Rivendell probably had only a few hundred High Elf defenders since they were rapidly abandoning Middle Earth (ME) and many of the remainder no longer cared for ME matters. Grey Havens, the Forlond and Harlond probably had slightly larger contingents since most of the Noldor and Sindar refugees were in this area. These would probably defend their havens and Rivendell and not be attacking anyone.
Saruman's Army 13,000-15,000 orcs and Dulendings. This assumes Gandalf's estimate of 10,000 orcs (as stated in his conversation with Treebeard in TT) is correct and estimating that the Dunlendings could field several thousand warriors. It probably was more since this force would have to be able to take on Rohan. I'd prefer to say 20,000 total but Gandalf's estimate shouldn't be that far off.
Sauron's Armies,
At the Black Gate. 61,000-65,000 orcs, trolls, Southrons, Easterlings. This is the clearest since it was plainly stated that they numbered ten times and more than ten times the 6,000 (remaining) warriors of the west standing on the two slag hills before the Black Gate (RK).
In the Druadan forest 6,500-7,000 Easterlings and Orcs. Ghani-Buri-Ghan tells Theoden that a force that numbers "more" than his score of scores counted ten times and five waylays the road to Minas Tirith (RK).
At Minas Tirith. 30,000-36,000. This is a conservative estimate based on the fact that the Haradrim alone outnumbered the Rohirrim 3 to 1 (giving them 18,000) and the fact that Variags of Khand, Orcs and Trolls were also part of the force (RK).
At Dol Guldor 8,000-10,000 orcs and trolls. This is a vague estimate based on the fact that Dol-Guldor attacked Lorien three times (failing each), the same force invades Rohan (destroyed by Treebeard); and another force from Dol-Guldor simultaneously attacks Thranduil and is soundly defeated (RK).
Army attacking Erebor. 5,000-6,000 Easterlings. This is also tenous, based on my estimates of the size of Dain's Dwarf Army and Brand's army of Men, the fact that they were initially defeated after a fiercely contested three day battle, and after a siege of the Lonely Mountain (in which both men and dwarves had taken refuge) they emerged to defeat the enemy (RK).
I know that the Atlas of ME also makes estimates of the size of forces. I have tried to to this independently based on the same sources.
Any comments on the logic or illogic of my conclusions and estimates?
It has long been an interest of mine to determine the approximate size of the armies of Middle Earth around the time of the War of the Ring. I would like to run my conclusions past the readers and participants of the forum to see if anyone has any additional information to add or suggestions to make. My sources are the LOTR trilogy Ballantine paperbacks Fellowship of the Ring (FR), The Twin Towers (TT), Return of the King (RK), the Hobbit(H), Unfinished Tales (UT) and Lost Tales (LT1&2).
Army of Rohan. 12,000-13,000. This was the easiest because UT states plainly that the full muster of Rohan was 100 eoreds each not less than 120 riders. It also states that doubtless many more than 12,000 could be mustered so that Theoden would not leave his strongholds undefended even if he did ride with the full muster to Gondor.
Army of Gondor. 20,000-21,000. This is based on Imrahil's comment at the last debate (RK) that the size of the force they were sending against Mordor (seven thousand) was scarcely the size of the vanguard of the army in the days of its strength. In Medieval armies the vanguard is almost universally 1/3 of the total force. This is also based on the approximate size of the garrison of Minas Tirith (after being reinforced from the fiefs) which I reckon at about 6,000 (3,000 from the fiefs and the estimate of 3,000 in the usual garrison--based on Aragorn's statements at Last Debate on the strength coming up from the South and the number of defenders being left behind being at least as strong as prior to the siege.
Army of Thranduil. 3,000. This is based on his strength at the Battle of Five Armies (H) where he had 1,000 elvish spearmen and the estimate of 1,000 bowmen (the bow being the best known weapon of the Wood Elves) and the determination that he would not have left his forest stronghold unguarded (a reasonable guess that he would not have taken any more than 2/3 of his available warriors).
Army of Dain. 2,000 This is based on the strength of Dain's force at the battle of Five Armies (H) 500 axe bearing dwarves (a force solely from the iron Hills), the fact that Thorin requested that the ravens bear word to his kin in the north, west and east (of whom only the iron Hills dwarves had arrived) and the fact that Gimli states that they had increased in strength by the time of the War of the Ring.
Army of Dale. 2,000. This is a tenous number based on Bard's force at the battle of Five Armies, the men and dwarves were in one wing and the elves in the other (H). There were 500 dwarves, 1,000 elf-spearmen (and my estimated 1,000 elf-bowmen) so I would anticipate that the dwarves and men together were at least near to the size of the elf wing say 1,000 men plus the 500 dwarves) and the fact that Gimli states that King Brand ruled "many men" and his land extended south and east. A look at the map shows that the logical bounds for such a realm are the rivers Running and Redwater, about half the size of Rohan or a little bigger than Lebinin in Gondor. This area had been severely depopulated but was since on the mend since the demise of Smaug.
Woodmen and Beornings 1,200. This is based on the incident of Isildur's death as told in UT. The woodmen got together a force to contest the 2,000+ orcs that attacked Isildur and his 200 man guard. Given the inferior fighting qualities of orcs it would still require a significant force (say half the number as the orc host plus they would not have left their homes unguarded. Since there were no Beornings at the time of the hobbit I assumed they were one people that divided (but kept their cultural ties) by the time of the War and they had a relatively stable population (a great achievement given the evil things that were on the increase in Mirkwood).
Army of Lorien 3,500-4,000. This is based on my estimate of the total of Thranduil's army and the various statements in UT that say by the time of the War that most of the Silvan elves lived in Lorien as opposed to Greenwood (which had been opposite in the Second Age)
Hobbitry in Arms. 700-1000. In the Scouring of the Shire (RK) it states that the hobbits numbered several thousand (definitely not including Bree and probably not including those of Buckland either). It is unclear whether these were only the hobbits of Hobbiton but it definitely does include females and children. Given the size of the force at Bywater this number is a reasonable estimate for the total force available to the Thain for defense.
Woses 1,400. I estimate the Woses in the Druadan forest only numbered a few hundred based on their ability to screen (in the forest) Theoden's march but that their kin in the Druwaith Iaur may have numbered around 1,000 since they were able to destroy the remnants of Saruman's army fleeing south from the battle with the Rohirrim (UT)
High Elves 1,500. I estimate that Rivendell probably had only a few hundred High Elf defenders since they were rapidly abandoning Middle Earth (ME) and many of the remainder no longer cared for ME matters. Grey Havens, the Forlond and Harlond probably had slightly larger contingents since most of the Noldor and Sindar refugees were in this area. These would probably defend their havens and Rivendell and not be attacking anyone.
Saruman's Army 13,000-15,000 orcs and Dulendings. This assumes Gandalf's estimate of 10,000 orcs (as stated in his conversation with Treebeard in TT) is correct and estimating that the Dunlendings could field several thousand warriors. It probably was more since this force would have to be able to take on Rohan. I'd prefer to say 20,000 total but Gandalf's estimate shouldn't be that far off.
Sauron's Armies,
At the Black Gate. 61,000-65,000 orcs, trolls, Southrons, Easterlings. This is the clearest since it was plainly stated that they numbered ten times and more than ten times the 6,000 (remaining) warriors of the west standing on the two slag hills before the Black Gate (RK).
In the Druadan forest 6,500-7,000 Easterlings and Orcs. Ghani-Buri-Ghan tells Theoden that a force that numbers "more" than his score of scores counted ten times and five waylays the road to Minas Tirith (RK).
At Minas Tirith. 30,000-36,000. This is a conservative estimate based on the fact that the Haradrim alone outnumbered the Rohirrim 3 to 1 (giving them 18,000) and the fact that Variags of Khand, Orcs and Trolls were also part of the force (RK).
At Dol Guldor 8,000-10,000 orcs and trolls. This is a vague estimate based on the fact that Dol-Guldor attacked Lorien three times (failing each), the same force invades Rohan (destroyed by Treebeard); and another force from Dol-Guldor simultaneously attacks Thranduil and is soundly defeated (RK).
Army attacking Erebor. 5,000-6,000 Easterlings. This is also tenous, based on my estimates of the size of Dain's Dwarf Army and Brand's army of Men, the fact that they were initially defeated after a fiercely contested three day battle, and after a siege of the Lonely Mountain (in which both men and dwarves had taken refuge) they emerged to defeat the enemy (RK).
I know that the Atlas of ME also makes estimates of the size of forces. I have tried to to this independently based on the same sources.
Any comments on the logic or illogic of my conclusions and estimates?