The Sindarin Thread

[Wilwarin]

Here is where we will talk about the Sindarin form of Elvish from now on! (I am relying on Isiltári to start a Quenya thread) ;) Any general Elvish questions or comments continue to post in "In Elvish Please".

Mae govannen, mellyn! :cool:

[Isiltári]

Suilad, mellon!

I'll start the Quenya thread in just a moment. :hooray:

[Wilwarin]

This is so much fun! :thumbs:

[Elf angel]

:whoohoo:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well right now i have no questions
the phrase a day thing itll still be in that thread no matter which form of elvish right?

[Eowyn]

I hope so!

btw I actually understood what Isiltári said. :whoohoo:
I'd never have known last week. and I didn't look it up. I must be getting there......... slowly! :blush:

[Isiltári]

Congrats, Eowyn! :whoohoo: :hooray: :whoohoo:

And I'm quite sure Wilwarin intends to keep up the phrase-a-day topic. :thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

i understood what you said too!

*go eowyn and tar-ancalime*

[Eowyn]

yeah us! :beer: :beer:

have a drink to celebrate!

[Wilwarin]

Yes, the phrase a day is going strong (in both languages!). I have just been so busy lately that I have not had the time to think up any new phrases! But as soon as I have one I will post it. :cool:

I'm glad you all are enjoying it so much!

Cuio mae! (live well!)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

:beer: ok wil. i gave you lots of ideas though! lol (j/k)

k whats yes in sindarian?

[Wilwarin]

That is one word I can't seem to find in Sindarin! verymad

If any of you ever see it ANYWHERE please tell me! :cool:

[Isiltári]

I'll let you know if I find one, Wilwarin -- I've never seen one either!

[Wilwarin]

Hi, just bumping some of these threads up a bit so people will still pos on them. :grin: When a thread is idle for more than two days people tend to stop posting all together!


Cuio mae, mellyn!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

do you know 'no' then?

[Eowyn]

or any simple and common phrase?

what about 'please'?

[Wilwarin]

Umm... No! lol :( Sorry! I wish I did! mecry

[Wilwarin]

I know how to say 'yes', 'no' and 'thanks' in Quenya!

OK, here's a couple words in Sindarin you could use:

Listen! = Lasto! [LOST-oh]

Don't! = Baw! [this is hard... like saying baa, then pronounce the 'w' at the end :( I don't know how else to explain it!]

Stop! = Daro! [DAR-oh]



Sindarin just isn't as complete as Quenya! verymad

[Eowyn]

what about 'continue' or other similar words that we could use in place of 'yes'?

[Wilwarin]

Well... if you are trying to tell some one to continue speaking then you could just say, pedo [PED-oh], "speak".
Pedo is the imperative verb where you are telling some one to speak.
:cool:

[Eowyn]

well thats a start thank you! I'll try to think of other ways of phrasing it!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

what about, "it is so?"
thats what isiltari said yes literally meant in quenya

or like "it is"

or "i agree"

or "its true"

or "its a fact"

or "you are right"

or "thats the way it is"

or "I am" or "I do"

[Isiltári]

Lol......looks like you've got your work cut out for you, Wil! :) :thumbs:

[Wilwarin]

veryhappy

OK, "it is" in Sindarin would be "na". Isn't that what it is in Quenya too?...Hmmm...

Does this help guys?

[Eowyn]

yep!

is 'Diola lle' thank you in sindarin or Quenya?

[Wilwarin]

Hmm... It doesn't sound like Sindarin to me. I've never seen that one.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

what does "nin" in Sindarin mean?

[Wilwarin]

In Sindarin? Well... there is no "nin" in Sindarin, but there is a "nîn" and it means "wet". "nin" would be a Quenya word, and I think it means "for me", or something to that effect.

[Isiltári]

Quite right, Wil. :thumbs: :)

[Wilwarin]

:whoohoo: Wow! I got one right! *feels happy*

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I meant nîn, of course. I was simply too lazy to put in the "î". Thanks! :)

[Firith Evenstar]

i'm starting to understand what you are saying too! oh this is great fun!

how do you say, good morning?
-------------
Cuio mae!

[Wilwarin]

"Good Morning" would be "Mán aur" [mán = rhymes with gone, aur = like hour]

[Wilwarin]

This is the month of Ivanneth [ee-VON-eth[ (September) and the day of the week is Orbelain [or-BEL-eye-n]

I am only going to post the days of the week one at a time, for something new everyday. I will post the month every day too, so by the end of this month you will have it down pretty good! :thumbs:

[Wilwarin]

This is the month of Ivanneth [ee-VON-eth] and the day of the week is Orgelion [or-GEL-ee-on] (Saturday). :cool:

[Wilwarin]

I am so sorry I wasn't here yesterday! My modem qite working and I only just got it back up and running this morning. :( Anyway...


Yesterday was Oranor [or-AN-or] (Sunday) and today is Orithil [or-EE-thil] (Monday). And of course this is the month of Ivanneth [ee-VON-eth], the last day of Ivanneth actually. :cool:

[Wilwarin]

This is the brand new month of Narbeleth [nar-BELL-eth] and today is Orgaladhad (Tuesday) [or-GAL-ah-thad] ("dh" is pronounced as the "th" in "thou", not as in "whith")

[Firith Evenstar]

*appreciates wil*

[Wilwarin]

Why thankyou, Firith! *feels appreciated*


Sorry about not posting the day yesterday! I completely forgot! :blush:

Anyway, yesterday was Orgaladh [or-GAL-ath] Wednesday (the "dh" is pronounced like the "th" in "thee", not in "sixth"!)

Today is Ormenel [or-MEN-el] Thursday.

And of course it is the month of Narbeleth [nar-BEL-eth]


:cool:

[Wilwarin]

Today is Orbelain [or-BEL-eye-n (rhymes with mine)] and this is the month of Narbeleth [nar-BEL-eth] :cool:

[Wilwarin]

Today is Orgilion [or-GIL-ee-on] Saturday. This is the month of Narbeleth [nar-BEL-eth].

Um... tell me if you would like me to stop posting the days and months, I think I've posted these ones already. But if you still want me to I will. I just don't want to bore you guys! :grin:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

no don't stop

[Wilwarin]

Really? You don't think I'm becoming repetitve?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

What i meant is, but didnt have the time to say, that I don't want you to stop not because it isn't repetitive, which actually it is, but that if I look at this enough times, it will get through to my brain, like, you know, immersion, so the point is, yeah, don't stop. I'm sure some other people feel the same :grin: even if it doesn't seem as though they want to post here

[Wilwarin]

OK, I won't stop then! Thanks Tar :thumbs: *feels appreciated*

[Wilwarin]

Today is Oranor [OR-an-or] Sunday, and it is the month of Narbeleth (try pronouncing it without my help this time).

[Wilwarin]

Today is Orithil [OR-ith-ill] Monday.

[Wilwarin]

Today is Orgaladhad [or-GAl-ah-thad] Tuesday (the dh sounds like the th in thee)
This is the month of Narbeleth [nar-BEL-eth] :cool:

[Wilwarin]

Today is Orgaladh [or-GAL-athe] Wednesday ("dh" is pronounced as the "th" in "thee")

[Tar-Ancalimë]

um kay

re "Dartho guin perian, roch le ad tol thathon"

sooo... the g is silent, or is it my hearing? the p is a b or is it the way viggo talks? hmmmm

[Wilwarin]

No the 'g' is not silent. Sindarin does not have any silent letters. It must be your hearing!;) "perian" is the Sindarin word for "halfling", I know it sounds like he says "berian", but it must be a mispronunciation on his part, or the way he runs his words together, I don't know. :huh:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

heh... well listen to it yourself, but i hear:

dartho uin berian, roch le a tol thatho

doesn't anyone else??? :huh:

[Wilwarin]

Yes, I heard it that way too the first couple times. But I also know the Sindarin words he is saying. They're just slurred and muffled, I guess, so it's hard to tell exactly what he's saying. If you think about it, there are probibly other movies, in English, where you think they are saying one thing, but they're really saying something else. I know of a few where it's like that for me.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

so Wil........any suggestions for a good site to learn Sindairn pronunciation? I looked in several places but nothing nice and easily laid out. Perhaps you have already covered this :huh: if so I am sorry :grin:

[Wilwarin]

Hmm . . . no, I haven't been able to find a really good site either. I've been able to collect bits and pieces from several different sites and I am in the prossess of making my own complete pronunciation guide. I can e-mail you a copy when I'm done if you like.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

PLEASE!! I will love you forever... not that I don't anyway :grin:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Oh, me too, please!? I'm only like 1/4 through the Quenya lessons, but I want to move on after Im done.

[Wilwarin]

Ok, I'll do that. It may be a little while though. I haven't been able to work on it this last month, but I hope to get back to it soon. I'll send you each a copy as soon as I finish it. :thumbs:

If there is any one else who would like one please send me a PM and I'll put you on the waiting list!

[Wilwarin]

Oh, and just for the fun of it . . . this is the brand new month of Hithui [HITH-oo-ee] November. :cool:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

aw ok... am i first on the list lol :grin: thanks girl!!!! :)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Thats just swell! As said, I have all the time in the world, 14 lessons of quenya ahead of me...:read:

[Telwilyaiel]

Does anybody know of a place where I can download elvish fonts? Like Sindarin for example? :)

[Illuvatar]

Yea sure....

Go to our Downloads section here (http://www.warofthering.net/downloads/fonts.shtml)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

hey hey hey girl! well as you have the extended... im sure you have heard all the new elvish... holy smokes, there's a ton!

....soooo! our lovely and talented resident translator Wilwarin pulled the other movie elvish phrases out of nowhere... can she do it again! lol ;) :gofatty:

[Wilwarin]

How did I know that someone was going to ask me for those? And how did I know it was going to be you, Tar? lol

Well, since I've only seen the new version once (so far!) I haven't learned the Elvish from it yet :grin: But you can be sure I will post the lines in here when I do! :thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

:grin: well i didnt think you had... i too have only seen it once, couldnt tell you where the lines are located even lol

heh you better ;)

[Wilwarin]

Actually I do! I just went through the movie today to listen to all the Elvish in it. I tried to write down what they were saying. Aragorn is SOO hard to understand! He mumbles too much! But I could make out Galadriel's lines fairly well. Elrond was OK too. I still have to work on it a bit until I'm sure I'm hearing it all right. Then I'll post them. I may not be able to do the part where Aragorn is talking to Galadriel though, at least not HIS lines. He is just mumbling way too much, and talking way too fast! I'll try translating the words in the subtiltles, maybe that will help.

It was actually fun to hear new Elvish lines being spoken! I understood a lot of it right away without reading the subtitles. I didn't even have to read the subtitles for Haldir. I knew exactly what he said! :)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

what about celeborn? was he easy to understand? oh that rocks wil... well any sites that might have aragorn's lines (for that matter, all of them ;))?

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Hi, Wil! Looking forward to reading those new Sindarin lines! Must be so cool to understand it without reading the subs, can't wait 'til I get there! You guys are just awsome!:cool:

[Cuiel Rilwen]

By the way, where's Isil gone to? Haven't seen any posts anywhere for days, I miss her!

[Wilwarin]

Hmmm I don't know where she went, I haven't seen her either.

Tar, I have no idea where there is a site that has Aragorns Elvish lines. I'm sure there's is, or is going to be in soon. I'll let you know if I find one. If you find one can you let me know as well?

Oh yeah! Celeborn was pretty easy to understand too. It's Aragorn that's the hard one!

[Cian]

Originally posted by Tar-Ancalimë: re "Dartho guin perian, ..." (...) the p is a b or is it the way viggo talks?

Hullo. The word could be Beriain (plural). Sindarin shows a number of mutations in certain environments. This example seemingly falls into the category termed "mixed mutation" ~ the result here being similar to "lenition" (a consonant mutation also found in Welsh for example).

Or at least it seems the author of this line theorizes so (the author could be noted expert Sindarist David Salo).

¤

[Telwilyaiel]

I have found many Quenya dictionaries, but I have yet to find a site that is running, that has a Sindarin Dictionary. Does anyone know where I can find one? I would really like to start learning it. I is a truly beautiful language.

[Orkybash]

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/vocab.htm

This page has some selected words (scroll down past the Quenya stuff). It's probably not anywhere near complete, and it's not organized as well as it could be, but it's a start!

[Wilwarin]

Also I have been in the prosess of compiling my own Sindarin dictionary over the last year or so. So far it is the most complete one I have seen. I am not finished with it yet, but when I am I will be offering it to any one who wants a copy. I'll let you know when that is.

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

Suilad, Wilwarin. I, too have been making a Sindarin Dictionary, although mine is not very organized, but i do have TONS of words, but not in alphabetical order.

[Wilwarin]

Very cool. I have been trying to keep mine in order. I have to in order to translate names and such on this forum. But

Suilad to you too, Celebriel! Mae govannen! Glad to have you on the forums.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

hey, Wil... i understood some elvish in the movie!! :grin: i was so proud of myself!! it wasnt even translated in the subtitles ;)

(of course the elvish was "mae govannen, haldir" :rolleyes: )

anyway, have you got any elvish from ttt that you want to write here yet? :grin:

[Wilwarin]

Hey good for you, Tar! That's more than most people understood I'm sure! No I haven't got any to post yet. I have only seen the movie twice and I am still taking it all in. Give me a few more viewings and I'll hve some though!

[Cuiel Rilwen]

I just woke up after seeing TTT last night, and look where I'm at! Completely blown away, 'm telling ya!

Whats more I actually also understood some of the words, even if they're in Sindarin and I'm studying Quenya! The part I can remember right now is Aragorn saying something to Legolas (I think) about "cenë" (seeing), that word must be pretty much alike in the two languages?!!! Probably didn't spell that right oh but well THAT'S SO COOL!!!

[Wilwarin]

cenë.......hmmm, that's not Sindarin. In Sindarin "seeing" would be "hen". As far as I could tell Aragorn only spoke Sindarin in TTT (but of course I could be very wrong on that account!)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

have you gotten any elvish from the extended yet? :)

oh yes and i understood ever so much more elvish, seeing it for the fourth time... a lot that wasnt translated as well! :grin:

[Wilwarin]

If you meant seeing TTT for the fouth time then I envy you! But if you meant the Extanded then that's cool too!

No, sorry! I haven't had time to get any Elvish from the Extended! I will as soon as the Chrismas rush is over though!

Though, I do have your favorite line from the Extended, Tar:

Celeborn: "Le aphadar aen" ("you are being followed") :grin:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yep i did mean for the forth time :)))) (i need a life ;))

oh ive watched the extended many more times than that! (i really do need a life lol

oohh thank you wil! that was one of the ones i really wanted... seeing as how its my favorite line in the extended :grin: (not sure why... i guess its just the way he says it! :))

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Originally posted by Wilwarin
cenë.......hmmm, that's not Sindarin. In Sindarin "seeing" would be "hen". As far as I could tell Aragorn only spoke Sindarin in TTT (but of course I could be very wrong on that account!)

Hmm, I'll listen more carefully this afternoon at my second viewing!:grin:

[Wilwarin]

You get to see it again today?! No fair! Oh well, I get to see it again on Sunday! :thumbs: I will be sure to pay extra close attention to the Elvish, then maybe I can post some of it here.

Actually, I did get a little bit from the TTT. Many where they didn't have a subtitle:

My favorite I think is when the Three Hunters are at the pile of burning orcs and they think that Merry and Pippin are dead, Legolas mutters something in Sindarin and no subtitle is given. He says "Hiro îth ab 'wanath" Which basicly means "may they find peace after death". mecry

Other one-liners I enjoyed hearing during the battle at Helm's Deep:

Aragorn: "Dartho!" (hold!)

Aragorn: "Anno i philinn!" (shoot the arrows!)

Aragorn: "Berio!" (charge!) my personal favorite (hey fellow Leggy lovers, looks like we finally have a battle cry for Orli's Army!)

Aragorn: "Pendraid!" (ladders!)

Aragorn: "Dago han! Dago han, Legolas! Dago han!" (Kill it! Kill it, Legolas! Kill it!) That's also one of my favorites)

Well, that's all from TTT for now. Hopefully I will have more after Sunday!


After litening to the Extended DVD scene of Aragorn and Eldrond by Gilraen's grave a hundred on one times I finally have Elrond's Sindarin lines! Yay!!!

Elrond: "Anirne hene beriad i chên în. Ned Imladris nauthant e le beriathar aen" (She wanted to protect her child. She thought in Rivendel you would be safe)

(If you want the pronunciation of that just let me know. Or you could just get the pronunciation from the movie.)

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Man, you're totally awsome! I came out of the cinema last night, my head buzzing like a thousand bees, just like last time! I would have to watch it numerous times to remember all those elvish lines!

The line I'm referring to is Aragorn saying something like this to Legolas, not so far out in the movie: "What do you see?" or "Can you see it?" See, I can't even remember one english line clearly! Also this time around it sounded to me as if he said cenë, but you know he is the mumbling kind! Maybe you'll remember to sharpen your ears when you're in the thick of it.

Awww, such a film! It filles me up, I'm still in Middle- earth!

I'm editing this post instead of doubbleposting, cuz I read you translation for Gatsby in the frases for everyday life. And you have a word in this line that I'm curious as to know what literally means.

"Edro hen lîn a le cenath" (open your eyes and you will see)

Does sindarin have pronominal endings such as Quenya? In which case, "Cenath"...am I right to asume this means "you will see?" And is this ending added to the verb cenë or something similar?

[Wilwarin]

Hmm......I'm not sure exactly what you want to know. But that may be because I am kind of dense today.:elfeek:

"cen-" is the verb "to see" in Sindarin. "cenath" is "will see". "le" is "you" so "Le cenath" is "you will see".

Sorry if I'm not making any sense now. I'm kind of tired! Let me know if you're still confused.

[Cuiel Rilwen]

You're definatly not dense, but a bit confuzzled I think! Remember me asking further up about seeming to understand what Aragorn at some point said to Legolas, in Sindarin? You've actually just confirmed that I did, so thank you for that! Cen in Sindarin is obvioulsy the same as cenë in Quenya, and that was all I wanted to know! You mentioned hen in a former post, is that a different word for seeing?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

i heard that Aragorn says Man cenich? that sounds right to me, when i rewatched ttt... is that what youre talking about or i am the dense one here? :)

also, I understood "..., Brego, mellon nîn" which wasnt translated, would it not be something like "...Brego, my friend"?

and then theres the "Mae govannen, Haldir!"

thanks for all that, Wilwarin!! you rock :cool:

and this isnt elvish but didnt Gandalf say, "Westu hal, ferthou, Theoden"?

[Wilwarin]

I think you're getting better at this Tar! :thumbs: Aragorn does say "Man cenich" Which means "what do you see". And he does say "Brego, mellon nîn" (Brego, my friend). But before that he says "mae carnen" which means "well done"

Cuiel, "cen-" is the word you would use if you wanted to say "see", though "hen" is sometimes translated "seeing" (as in Aman Hen the Seat of Seeing. Though it literally means "hill of sight").

And Tar, yes, Gandalf did say "Westu hál. Ferethu, Théoden, ferethu" (Be thou well. Go thou, Théoden, go thou) It's Rohiric, or Old English.


I just got back from seeing TTT again. I didn't read the subtitles on perpose so I could pay attention to the Elvish better. I got a lot more from the movie! I'll post some in a little while. :thumbs:

[Wilwarin]

Ok, here are some more lines from TTT translated:

Just before the Three Hunters meet Gandalf in Fangorn:

Legolas: "Aragorn, nad no ennas!" (Aragorn, something's out there!)

Aragorn: "Man cenich?" (What do you see?)


When Elrond is talking to Arwen in her room:

Elrond: "Tollen i lû. I chair gwannar na Valannor. Si bado, no círar." (It is time. The ships depart for Valinor. Go now, before they sail)

(I can't quite make out what Elrond says in Elvish when the subtitles say something like "Do I not have your love also?" I can't remember exactly what they say since I didn't read them this time!)

Arwen's reply: "Gerich meleth nîn, adar." (You have my love, father)


Legolas and Aragorn at Helm's Deep after Aragorn's return:

Legolas: "Le ab dollen" (You're late)

Aragorn (after Legolas gives back Arwen's jewel): "Hannad le." (thank you)


More in a minute............

[Wilwarin]

Legolas and Aragorn just before the Battle:


Legolas: "Boe a hûn: neled herain dan caer meneg." (It is necessary to them: [there are] 300 [of us], against 10,000 [of them])

Aragorn: "Si beriach a hy ´n. Amar na ned Edoras." (Now you protect them [?] ...in Edoras) (not sure on some of that)

Legolas: "Aragorn, men i ndagor. Hy ´n ú-gâr ortheri. Natha dagad aen!" (Aragorn, we are warriors [literally "for us is the battle] . They cannot withstand. They're going to die!)

Then Aragorn says in English: "Then I shal die as one of them!" :grin: one of my favorite lines from the film.


Hmm......... that's all I can remember right now. If I'm missing some that you know of tell me. I know I didn't post any of Aragorn's longer lines, but I'm sure you all know why. ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

:cool:

lol so did you not get any of the stuff between Arwen and Aragorn?

the one i relaly want is when he says something like... "you have a chance for another life... away from war, grief, despair" it sounds sooo neat, i really want to go around saying it (lol) but i really cant understand him!

oh yeah, and i have a question. when arwen says, if you trust in nothing else, trust this, trust us," does she say "estel" for trust, or is it something more like "estelo"?

[Wilwarin]

Hmm.......That part is a bit confusing. He says one thing and the subtitles say something else. Though I'm not exactly sure this is right. Like I've said before and elsewhere, it's hard to understand Vigo when he speaks Elvish!:

Aragorn: "Edran an men [?] ... haer o auth a nîr a naeth."

("edran an men" means "I open for the road" what!? Go figure. The reast lterally means "far from war and tears and woe".

I don't know.......I could be hearing it all wrong.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol i understood him when he greeted haldir and comgratulated brego, you're doing better than i did! :thumbs:

oh well, lol, you'll just have to watch ttt again... what a hardship :p

[Wilwarin]

Oh sorry! I didn't see your other question! Did you just add it?

Anyway, no she doesn't say "estel" as that would be "hope". I believe she says "estelio".
Now that you remind me, I knew there was one part I figured out but forgot to post!
The rest of that line is "Ae ú-estelio . . . estelio han. Estelio ammen."

does this help? I'm not sure if I have any more. The Arwen/Aragorn scenes are always so hard to hear. I think that once they get married all they will do for the rest of their lives is whisper! lol

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol yes it helps... i knew that estel was hope, i thought it might also mean trust, but then i listened to it again and i thought either both 'this' and 'us' start with 'io' or thats part of 'trust'

heh... i am learning, bit by bit :)

lol since they do already ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oh, heh heh, one more quesiton, do you know what aragorn is saying when he says, "there is nothing to forgive, legolas"?

i know, i know, another aragorn line :( lol

[Cuiel Rilwen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilwarin
[B]

Aragorn: "Man cenich?" (What do you see?)

This is the line I was reffering to! Later on I figured out that "hen" had to be a noun, as it actually means "eye" in Quenya. I seem to remember reading someplace that Quenya is to Sindarin what Latin is to Italian, is there any truth in that? The two languages seem for the most part to be very different, but some words are similar. :)

[Isiltári]

Aiya! Remember also that cen- is the verb for "to see" in Quenya. ;)

[Wilwarin]

OK, I get why you're confused, Cuiel! A few posts back I said that the Sindarin word for "seeing" is "hen", when really it is "cenath". The correct and literal translation for the word "hen" in Sindarin is "eye", though is is also used for the word "sight" (and some times "seeing"). This are two of those words that Sindarin and Quenya share I guess.

Are you confused no longer I hope?

[Wilwarin]

I'm going to go see the movie again on Wed (hopefully!). Any special requests? I'm going to try to get a little more Elvish from it. Hmm.....maybe i'll even bring a note pad!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

im sorry... its a line by Aragorn (lol)... "there is nothing to forgive, Legolas"

hmmm good idea, Wil! :grin:

edit: oh and if you dont mind i would like the rest of that line "you have a chance for another life &c..." :grin: ...maybe if you listen to it a bunch of times itll come to you :)

remember to enjoy the movie though :)

[Elemmìrë]

Wil, for your next movie trip on Wed. try and get the Sindarin translation in Arwen and Aragorn's first scene together when Arwen says:
"If you trust nothing else, trust this. Trust us."

Thanx much for all the others also!:thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

shes already gotten it :thumbs:Originally posted by Wilwarin
"Ae ú-estelio . . . estelio han. Estelio ammen."

[Elemmìrë]

Wait...ha! nevermind!!! i guess i didnt read it clearly enough..... but i have a question....... In the ending of one of Legolas' lines he says "aen" and that is in Galadriels prologue too..... what, literally, does "aen" mean?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

i understand it is 'they'. but i could so be wrong ;)

so we'd better wait til Wil answers lol

[Elf angel]

Man..this is exciting..you know theres some elvish lines that don't have any translation at allpfbbt..bummer.

[Elemmìrë]

I like the way you think Tar....lol.....it could mean they but the translation for "I amar prestar aen" is "the world is changed" but with the Legolas quote, im totally confused!

[Isiltári]

Psst....Elemmírë: Great name! :thumbs: That's the name I use in a Middle-earth roleplaying game that I play. :hooray: :hooray: :hooray:

*Ahem*

Back on topic: Wilwarin, darling, you're being paged! ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oh right well.... i think it somehow forms the passive voice, hence is changed... and in another quote is defended...

and then the legolas quote is "they are all going to die!" (or something along those lines)... so that works :thumbs:

yeah yeah im confusing myself too. WIIIIIIL! come help me lol

[Cuiel Rilwen]

Originally posted by Wilwarin
OK, I get why you're confused, Cuiel! A few posts back I said that the Sindarin word for "seeing" is "hen", when really it is "cenath". The correct and literal translation for the word "hen" in Sindarin is "eye", though is is also used for the word "sight" (and some times "seeing"). This are two of those words that Sindarin and Quenya share I guess.

Are you confused no longer I hope?

Thanx, I'm unconfuzzled! Awaiting your return with great anticipation!;)

[Wilwarin]

Sorry! I was away from my computer all day!

Tar, I think I should make you my official cover person! it seems that you're always here when I'm not! :thumbs:

OK, to answer your question,Elemmîrë, I can see why you are confused! The subtitles in the movie are not an exact translation of the actual Elvish (if it was we would have no idea what they are saying!) ;)

Tar, you are right, "aen" does mean "they". What Galadriel literally says in the prologue is "The world they change". Who "they" actaully are I don't know. Men maybe? or the Powers? Your guess is as good as mine. But any way, that's what she says.

[Wilwarin]

Hey guys, go check out my newest post in the "Sindarin Practice" thread.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

heehee i am being your cover person, im just not half as good as the real thing ;)

uh so would you use 'aen' to make passive voice or is the movie elvish just weird lol... if you wouldnt what would you use?

yep, been there, done that, even replied :p

[Elemmìrë]

Hey thanx Isiltàri! :p
So Wil, get a chance to go to the movie again today? i'd love some more Arwen and Aragorn lines if it's not too much trouble! ;)

BTW Happy 2003 everyone!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

hey Elem... i was meaning to ask a while ago... what does the name mean?

[Elemmìrë]

Elemmìrë means "Star Jewel" I'm pretty sure........I used to use it in roleplaying all the time and I love anything that has to do with stars and my other one was Elentari which is "star Queen"....so yeah, "Star Jewel" :thumbs:

[Lessien Elensar]

question time!! hopefully i'll write it in a way that is understandable so yea, here goes - i started learning french a couple of years ago and got really annoyed because i had to learn 2 different ways of saying one word (many different ones) because one was femine and one for males....... anyway, i was just wondering if this was the case with elvish?? or is it just normal ;) . actually that wasn't 2 bad :)

[Wilwarin]

Hi Lessian! Sindarin does not have feminine and masculine forms, except in names and titles. For instance: The Sindarin word for "associate" is "gwador", but the feminine form of that is "gwathel". See what I meant? Other than that Sindarin is all one form. You will have to go to the "Quenya Thread" and ask Isiltári about whether Quenya is gender specific because I don't know it well enough to tell you.



Oh, Tar, what was your question? I didn't quite understand what you were asking.


Sorry I wasn't here yesterday! But I saw the movie again (loved it even more!) I think I got some more Elvish lines, but it also left me feeling frustrated with Vigo! :angry: Some of his lines I just can't seem to get no matter what! I will post the ones I did get in a few minutes. (Heehee.....I took notes at the theater :p )

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well i was asking about 'aen' again, but i think i already have figured out the answer :)

lol notes?? youre a big of dork as i am (well, close anyway :p) jk

[Wilwarin]

OK, more from the movie.........nuts! Now I can't remember what I have already posted! Ah well, if I post one twice I'm sure you won't hold it against me. :grin:


Arwen and Aragorn flashback sequence:


Aragorn: (I'm not quite sure on all this) Minnu pennich nin i auren telitha. ("You told me once this day would come)

Arwen: Boe padad . . . boe pedich go Frodo, han bâd lîn. (It is necessary that you go with Frodo, this is your way)

Aragorn: Dolen i vâd o nin. (My path is hidden from me)

Arwen: Si Peliannen i vâd na dail lîn. Si boe ú-dhannathach (It is already laid before your feet. You cannot falter now)

Aragorn: Arwen

Arwen: Ae ú-estelio . . . estelio han. Estelio ammen. (If you do not know what to trust in, trust in it. Trust in us.)


(Arwen is easy to understand)


Latter, when he is saying goodbye to her:

The subtitles say "You have a chance at a new life..." I oringinally though it sounded like Aragorn says "I open for the road". But how could that be, it doesn't really make any sense. I listened very close this time. That is all I focused my atention on in that moment.........It still sounds like he says "I open for the road"!!!! I am even more sure of it now than before! (I wish David Salo was my friend, I would ask him!)


I still can't catch what Aragorn says to Legols at Helm's Deep after the Elf apologizes to him for despairing. The subtitles say "There is nothing to forgive". All I can understand is "Ú-moe....."
verymad Vigo!!!!! verymad

Oh well........

I may have more later. :cool:

[Wilwarin]

Dork huh? It was the only way I would be able to rememebr what I heard! I'm glad I took notes too, 'else I wouldn't have just posted the obove.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol im glad too :)

when Arwen says... "you must go with Frodo etc.", does she not begin that with "this is not the end, it is the beginning"
do you have that in your elvish up there and just not in english? or did you not write that part down?

lol i dont really mind if you psot something twice ;)

oh yeah... david salo really should put up the elvish used in the movie somewhere... ive found a few sites but they are pretty incomplete... you remain my best resource lol

[Wilwarin]

Hmm......I don't remember that part you mentioned. Ah well, yet another reason to see the movie again!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oh well maybe it just came from my head :grin:

thats always possible... scary place, my head lol

[Elemmìrë]

Hey wil, even though you werent sure on the quotes, thanx a lot! see im gonna be Arwen for Halloween and I'm gonna persuade this guy i have a huge crush on to be Aragorn and were both gonna learn all the elvish lines between the two of them either from Fellowship or from Two Towers.....Any suggestions on which ones we should learn?
(LOL i know it sounds corny but hey, im only 14!)((Ok thats not really an excuse but humor me people!)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

learn the ones from the fellowship, they're easier and we have them all. ive even got them memorized... plus you can own the fellowship and listen to the actors say them over and over which is how i memorized them :)

i personally prefer the 'stay with the hobbits. ill send blah blah" scene but thats because it is more fun to say... and plus i dont like that love scene bleh lol

[Elemmìrë]

lol.....thanx.... I have all the English translations memorized and own the Extended edition as well as the regular one.......so i guess you all know what i'll be doin tomorrow! and this time, im gonna do it myself! unless i get really confused then ill come "ask the pros" lol

[Lessien Elensar]

Originally posted by Wilwarin
Hi Lessian! Sindarin does not have feminine and masculine forms, except in names and titles. For instance: The Sindarin word for "associate" is "gwador", but the feminine form of that is "gwathel". See what I meant? Other than that Sindarin is all one form. You will have to go to the "Quenya Thread" and ask Isiltári about whether Quenya is gender specific because I don't know it well enough to tell you.

Wicked, Thank-you!!! :grin:

[Beleglotiel]

Okay, I need some help here!!
Can you translate for me these lines................

"May they be at peace"
"They didn't deserve that fate, no one does"
"Seeking revenge on the goblins by slaughtering them will not take away the pain!"
"The Hope Flower"

and if you need to revise those lines to make them fit into Elvish go right ahead.....................
Please and Thank you!!!!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

congratulations bele, you came up with some all on your own. :grin: i am very proud of you... see yelling at me doesnt get you anywhere :p

[Beleglotiel]

Hmmm.............well thanks Tar.............I think :p

[Elemmìrë]

Hey guys...Ok...i got my lines to learn, can pronounce all but these two..... I'd love it if i could get pronunciation for just these two lines!
Aragorn: Nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen
Arwen: Ú-'arnech in naeth i si celich.

[Tar-Ancalimë]

you think?? hmmm... ok :) lol

watch the movie again :p lol jk...

[Elemmìrë]

Youre sooo mean to me Tar!!!! lol....j/k...
Hey was it you that wanted the dialogue that said "you have a chance for another life" etc?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yep... but just the one line... no one, it seems, has it.
wil cant understand viggo well... the elvish.org site doesnt have it either.... arg lol

[Beleglotiel]

Here is a site with tons of stuff about Sindarin, tho I haven't taken the time to read it..........it's just to darn long!!

http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm

[Elemmìrë]

Hey Tar.....I have it.... or at least i think that this is it

Aragorn: Idhren emmen menna gui ethwel. Hae o auth a nîr a naeth.
(translation: You have a chance for another life. Away from war, grief, despair.)

Hope that was it! Let me know, k?

[Beleglotiel]

Can someone translate mine please??!! It is crucial that I have this translated!!

[Elemmìrë]

Hey Bel, so far i have one of yours translated and i have to go eat dinner but ill be back to translate at least one more.

"e estel loth"- The Hope Flower

[Tar-Ancalimë]

Originally posted by Elemmìrë
Idhren emmen menna gui ethwel. Hae o auth a nîr a naeth.
the last part of the phrase sounds right but... i dont know, i listened to it closely again today and i hear, for the first part, something like... 'edre le men....'

arg i dont know. hes so hard to understand :(

[Beleglotiel]

Poor thing, he likes to mumble a lot, have you heard him in his interviews and stuff?? He's very hard to understand!
Thank you, Elemmìrë!!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

oh but thats ok... i can easily forgive him as the mumbling is so sexy :grin:


uh about 'e estel loth' i thought 'the' was 'i'?

[Elemmìrë]

YA know i would think that it wouldnt really matter if it was "e" or "i" because i think either one would be pronounced the same

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol pronounced the same or not, most of the elvish i do is writing. and if bele wants it for her story, shes going to be writing it. so we really ought to get wil's word on this :grin:

[Elemmìrë]

Lol....yeah good plan !

[Beleglotiel]

Heh, where is the ol'girl? ;) Haven't seen her in a while

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ach she just gets busy... shell be on eventualy, we just have to be patient :)

[Beleglotiel]

That isn't my greatest virtue.................

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol i've noticed... ok enough spamming in the language thread... we are getting very off topic here

[Beleglotiel]

But, we are kinda talking about Sindarin.............in a way................ ;)

[Elemmìrë]

ok.....here i am again attempting to translate another one of Bel's phrases......lol.....this one i think i have right but dont trust me!! wait for Wil or at least Tar for a second opinion....
"May they be at peace"- "Lothron hain ne na sîdh."

[Beleglotiel]

Thanks, well.......okay, i guess i could wait for them........but they better hurry up! ;)

[Elemmìrë]

I think that its 99.9 percent right.... so if youre feeling trustworthy then go ahead!.....but Tar should respond here shortly, or at least she better!

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol ok... from what i know 'peace' in sindarin is 'gwanath' (that is from legolas' line in the tt 'may they find peace after death)

[Elemmìrë]

OH yeah.....duh...... ok well im gonna stop translating stuff now cuz what ive learned from internet dictionaries is that theyre crappy! thanx Tar

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol before you start thanking me we better find out if im right from wil ;)

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

yeah, i agree with you, tar, about the dictionaries online are crappy. I've recently been updating my own, and i've found a website with one, and lots of the words they have have different meanings than mine, so i'm taking them as incorrect, because the stuff i got was from a reliable source. arghhh!! it gets kinda frusterating, because now i'm wondering about other stuff....oh well. lol

-Celebriel
-avon awartha le

[Isiltári]

Lol......everyone just stay away from Ruth S. Noel's book, The Languages of Middle-earth, or whatever it was called. Full of mistakes!

[Beleglotiel]

Ugh! Please make up your mind! lol ;)

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well what i mostly use is Ardalambion.... if anything contradicts that i usually go with Ardalambion's take on it... its all right, right?

[Wilwarin]

OK! Have no fear, for Wil here!! :grin: Sorry I was gone for so long! I was out of state visiting a friend and I ended up being gone longer than I thought I would.

OK, Bele, I will have your translations soon. I just got on and I haven't had a chance to translate them yet! It will most likely be tomorrow before I can post them though. If I have a chance I will try to post them later tonight.

As for that Aragorn line........I know the last part is right, but the first part seems a bit too long to e what he actually says. I have listend very close and it really sounds like he says "edron an men" (I open for the road). But since that really doesn't make much sense it must not be right........or I don't know.......maybe it is!

Did I miss any of your questions? I just read like four pages of this thread, I may have forgotten some!

[Elemmìrë]

K wil, thank god you're back!! i attempted to translate some of Bel's lines and thought they were right but hey, I dont know! Tar, Bel and I were kinda wondering if the word for"The" was "i" or "e" cuz i thought it was "e" and Tar thought it was "i"...... so who, if either of us, is right?
Oh yeah.....And "peace" too Tar went by some of Leggies lines and i went by a crappy online dictionary..... whats the true word for "peace"?

[Beleglotiel]

YES!!! Wil is back!!! WHEW!!! thank goodness!!! Thanks Wil!!

[Lessien Elensar]

if you were greeting someone in sindarin elvish what would you be most likely to say?

[Beleglotiel]

Even i can answer that one.......i think............well i'm pretty sure it would be "siluad" but i'm just a beginner...........;)

[Wilwarin]

Yes, Suilad means "greetings" in Sindarin. Or you could say "Mae govannen" (well met)

As for the other questions:

"the" in Sindairn is "i", but the plural is "in". "e" is the pronoun "he" or "she"—either one, it doesn't matter.

The Sindairn word for "peace" is—hmmm......I'm not sure what it is. The word that Leggy says in TTT is "îdh" which literally means "rest" or "repose", The subtitle says "peace". Can you tell me where you found the word you think is "peace", Elemmîrë? I would like to see for myself.

[Lessien Elensar]

thanks :)

[Elemmìrë]

Yeah wil, I got mine from http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Encyclopedia&file=index&action=DisplayTerm&pn_vid=7&pn_id=4232 (sry, i cant put it in a hyperlink so just do your best with copy and paste ;) )
the one here is "sîdh" but i still dont trust it....lemme know your opinion Wil!

[Elemmìrë]

Lol...hey wow it IS a hyperlink! look at that...didnt know that THAt would happen!

[Wilwarin]

OK, well I took a look at it. I tested it by having it search for a few verbs (verbs are usually what they mess up on). It seems to be in order. I think it's a prety trusworthy site as far as I can tell. Of course, there may be some discrepencies, but I think all—or at least most—of the online dictionaries do. Just because I don't know the word for "peace" doesn't mean that it doesn't exist of course, or that "sîdh" isn't it. It sounds like it would be "peace" since the word for "rest" is "îdh" and they are very closly related.

I think it's safe to use that dictionary for now. I'll look at it closer when I have more time and tell you if I find anything that isn't right.

[Wilwarin]

OK Bele, here are those phrases you wanted, Finally! lol I wasn't able to translate all of them exactly like you wrote them, but I tried to keep them as close as I could.


"May they be at peace"

Nai aen garo îdh

(Literally: "may they have rest". Or you could just use the line that Legolas says in TTT: "Hiro îdh ab 'wanath" ([may they] find rest after death) :grin:


"They didn't deserve that fate, no one does"

I amarth ú-garn anírant aen, ú-vin aníra han

(Literally: "they didn't desire that fate, no one desires it". I was unable to find the Sindairn word for "deserve" I substituted "desire". I know it's not exactly the same, but if you have a better idea I can change it. I will tell you if I ever find the right word!)


"Seeking revenge on the Goblins by slaying them will not take away the pain"

Aníra acharn erin yrch na dhagel hain avatha mabatha i naeth

(Literally: "desiring vengeance on the goblins by slaying them will not take [away] the grief")


"The Hope Flower"

I Estel Loth"


There, if you want the pronunciations I'll PM them to you.

[Beleglotiel]

OH THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! notworthy

My fans thank you!!!

[Undomiel]

hey can you translate the phrase in my sig?

"For I am Arwen Elrond's daughter, and am also named Undómiel"

I really want to put in in Sindarin but i have no idea how :blush:

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

I went to councilofelrond.com, and some of the words in their dic (well the translation) differ from mine, and i got mine from a relyable resource.

[Wilwarin]

OK, I have your phrase soon.


Celebriel, can you tell me which words they were? The ones you have and the ones the site has. I would rally like to find out for sure if that is a reliable dictionary. Thanks! You can PM them to me if you want, or post them here.

[Wilwarin]

Here is that phrase, Undómiel:

"I am Arwen, Elrond's daughter, and I am also called Undómiel"

Im Arwen Elrondien, a im cann Undómiel

[Wilwarin]

Hey guys, from now on can you please post phrases in the Elvish Phrases thread? Thanks!

[Beleglotiel]

But, we want these phrases in Sindarin........soooooo

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

i've only filtered throuhg A-C on their list(they sure have a lot!![although they list most of the forms of the words, the plural separate from the singular, etc]), so it'll take me a while to look through it all. When i'm done, i'll post some that i thinnk might be questionable. (cutting and pasting and cutting and pasting takes forever!!!lol)

[Undomiel]

thanx for the translation :grin:

[Wilwarin]

Well, if you want the phrases in Sindarin just ask. But this thread really is just for talking about Sindarin and stuff like that. The other thread is for translating phrases. It's just easier for me that way. That way I don't have to try and remember which thread to post my answers in!



Thanks Celebriel! No rush. I've noticed that that dictionary doesn't have a lot of words that I have. I wonder how complete it is?

[Tar-Ancalimë]

yeah and about translating phrases, if you ever want to look something up its so much better to have one place to go instead of many! its always nicer to know where to find everything :)

[Wilwarin]

Yeah, what she said!

[Beleglotiel]

But what if you really have no where to go but here? ;)

[Wilwarin]

What are you trying to say? If you have a phrase you would like translated please post it in "Elvish Prases for Everyday Life"; if you just have a question about Sindarin, or would just like to talk about Sindairn in general, then post here. We would really like to keep this simple.

There, that should be the end of it now.......lets talk about Sindarin!

[Little Devil]

Ok talk about Sindarin.........I like it!!! ;)
plus I think Tolkien is a really smart guy to invent a language. ;) :notworthy: Brillinat man. :thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

lol I have invented a language... but that does not make me brilliant... Tolkien's languages are so developed and realistic, and he made more than just one developed and realistic language... and for that is he truly brilliant veryhappy

[Beleglotiel]

Yes, Tolkien was very smart! There should be like a day dedicated to him! He's gotta be the Albert Einstien (sp?) of Literature! Love the Sindarin language........tho it is very complex if you ask me.

[Little Devil]

I agree it is, though I would much sooner prefer to study Sindarin and Quenya then stuff like French! ;)

[Beleglotiel]

For real! That would be the coolest thing if they offered Elvish as a second Language at schools! lol but highly unlikely

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

lol that would never work unless we formed a country that speaks only elvish!!!! lol

Wil - yeah that dic didn't have a lot of the words that i have, and it has several different sindarin words for a couple english words, and vice versa, so i'm not trusting it yet. i'm going to try sometime to ask the people who made that dic where they got their stuff. hopefully not from one of those faulty dics that some dumb screwballs like to make just to mess everyone up!!lol

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

hey ppl. i found out at a different site that councilofelrond.com has sindarin lessons that some of the professionals recommended. i don't know if this means that the dic is correct, but i'm still questionable about some of the words in it.

[Wilwarin]

Well I'll take a closer look at it, then I'll tell you guys.

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

:) yeah, i tried posting at councilofelrond, but it wouldn't work, and i was getting really mad.....:S lol there were some people there with some OBVIOUS questions about sindarin, and so i tried posting and explaining a few things, but even though i was signed in and everything it never lets me post for some odd reason. my computer doesn't like me lol

[Beleglotiel]

I'm gonna have to check this place out. Is it good?

[Little Devil]

It's ok, but these forums are better, I think. I haven't tried out the Sindarin thread there, what's the address again? does anyone know? ;)

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

www.councilofelrond.com

[Beleglotiel]

Hmm, this place sounds pretty cool. I might have a look see.

[Little Devil]

Thank you! :thumbs:

[Lemnas]

Heya guys-

just stumbled across this site myself :). I am the Languages administrator in charge of the Sindarin Course at www.councilofelrond.com. I would be very interested in any feedback you might be willing to give on it :)

[Beleglotiel]

I'll see if i can fit it in..............;) :p lol

[Orkybash]

Hey everyone,

I just puzzled out a sindarin translation and was hoping to get feedback on it. I used the grammer guide from www.elvish.org/gwaith , and the sindarin dictionary from http://www.geocities.com/almacq.geo/sindar/ . Anyway, it's the first four lines of Lament for the Rohirrim (yeah, it doesn't make sense that it would be in Sindarin, but I love that poem, k?). I was going to go on, but I couldn't figure out how to express a comparison - ie "They have passed like rain..." I had to substitute a few words and coin a few more, since the vocabulary isn't very complete... Anyway, I know it's not anywhere close to perfect, but here goes:

Ias i roch ai i rochon? Ias i ron 'annel?
Ias i thol, i angver, ar i fast gelair gell?
Ias i cam bo gannel ar i haur garan 'aladannel?
Ias i celn, i crithad, ar i iau orchal 'aladel?

Literally:
Where (are) the horse and the rider? Where (is) the playing horn?
Where (is) the helm, the armor*, and the brilliant hair flowing?
Where (is) the hand on harp, and the red fire glowing**?
Where (is) the spring, the reaping, and the tall corn growing?

*Angver = armor, coined from ang "iron" and bar "protection"
**Galadanna- = glowing, lit. "light-giving".

[Beleglotiel]

I tried those sites just now...........i don't like them very much :(

[Wilwarin]

Very nice try at translating, Orkybash! You got the grammar and stuff like that pretty right.
But I am confused about a few things. First: you use the word "ai" in "Las i roch ai i rochon" I was wondering if this is a typo because "ai" means "ah". I think you ment to say "ar" for "and".

Also what is the word "las"? I am assuming you are using it to mean "where", however, I have never heard of this word before. Where did you get it?

Some other words I am confused by:
"ron" I assume this is "horn"? However, I have never seen this word before either. The dictionary you said you got your words from has no knowlege of this word. The words for "horn" that I know are "till" or "ras".

"'annel" being the lenited form of "gannel"? this means "harp". So why would it say "where [is] the horn harp" if you ment to say where is the horn playing? "To play" is "telio".

"gell" being the lenited form of "cell"? This means "joy". I thought you meant to say "flowing" at this part. Also in that line you have the word "fast" which means "shaggy hair". Not that that is bad, I was just wondering why you used this word and not the general word for "hair" which is "laws"?

Oh and by the way, "fire" is not "haur" it's "naur"

I have never seen these two words before: "celn" and "crithad". What do they mean?

"'aladel" being the lenited form of "galadel"? I am not familiar with this verb form. The verb being "grow" the stem would be "gala-". I think you want the infinitive here, which would be "galo".

OK, I think that's all the questions I have. I guess that might be a little too many! Sorry! But you said you wanted feedback, and I figured you would want to know about any errors so you can fix them. Other than these concerns I think you did a really good job! Keep it up. I really enoyed reading it.

[Orkybash]

Hmm, thanks for the feedback, Wil!

Looks like I should get a better dictionary... any you can reccomend?

[Wilwarin]

I don't know of a really GOOD Sindarin dictionary. Most of them have something wrong with them, or they aren't very complete. I have been compiling a Sindarin dictionary myself and I am almost done. I'm trying to make it as complete and accurate as possible. I am going to be sending it out to a bunch of people when I'm finished. Would you like one?

Most of the words in your poem are right, there are just those few I haven't heard of before. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it just means I don't know every Sindarin word out there! Did you get them all from the dictionary you posted the link to? Because that dictionary doesn't recognize the words in question.

[Orkybash]

I didn't use the online translator in the link, instead I downloaded the PDF dictionary. (kind of a pain since you have to give them your email, but I needed one I could print out) The problem is, it lists several translations of a single word, without giving information on each translation. For example, for "hair" it lists "fast, finnel, laws", and as someone just beginning to study Sindarin I have no idea which to use!

So, I guess I'll go through your comments and see if I can figure out what I was thinking....

Ai: this is indeed a typo, I meant to say "ar"

ias: from the sindarin grammer section at www.elvish.org/gwaith, where it says: "the adverbs which are employed in the interrogative sentences are called the interrogative adverbs. These are: ias 'where', ir 'when', manen 'how'."
This looks like "Las" in the font the boards use, nothing I can do about that...

Ron: Must have been a typo, though the dictionary I downloaded has several translations for horn, including "rom"

'Annel: Under "play" I found "ganna-" and "telia-", among other things. Again, this is an example of not knowing which to use, so I took "ganna-", formed the participle "gannel" (though maybe it should be "gannol?"), then lenited it as 'annel.

Gell: Lenited form of Cell, which I found under "flowing" in the dictionary I used.

Fast - Like I said, both Fast and Laws were entires under "hair", and I wasn't sure which to use.

Haur - couldn't read my own handwriting here! :) My dictionary lists "naur", which I must have written down, but then miscopied as "haur" when I typed it up. Maybe I should just use tengwar? :)

Celn: dunno what I was thinking here... I think I meant "spring," but that's not one of the words listed for that in my dictionary...

Crithad: since I couldn't find a word for "harvest" I translated "reaping." My dictionary lists Reap as Critha-, the gerund of which I found as Crithad.

'Aladel: I misformed the partaciple pf "gala-" as "galadel" instead of "galel" or "galol" (still not sure which it should be). This lenited to "'aladel."

Again, thanks for your feedback, and I hope that clarifies what I was thinking (or when I wasn't thinking, as the case may be ^___^)

And yes, I'd love a copy of your Sindarin dictionary when it's ready!

Edit: disabled smilies, since "galol" turned out to be ga with the laughing face right after it...

[Wilwarin]

Thankyou very much for all that!

"flow" would be "siria-", just incase you can't find it.

Also, the correct form you would want for "growing" would be "galel". The ending "-ol" is for the A-stem verbs.

As for the verb "ganna-", this means "to harp" or "to play a harp" (but only a harp!) the general verb "play" is "telia-" this word is used in the same broad sense as it is in English. It can be used when referring to games, sports or music. I am disturbed that the dictionary you have doesn't seperate these two. In my dictionary I have "ganna-" under "harp" as a verb, and "telia-" under "play". Ah well!

If you are ever unsure about a word you are considering in a translation, please feel free to ask about it here! I would love to help!

PS. I've added your name to my waiting list for that Sindarin dictionary.

[Orkybash]

Thanks Wil! I look forward to that dictionary!

*busys self updating translation*

Oh, one more thing, I dunno if you caught this when I origininally posted the translation - do you know how to express a comparison in Sindarin using "like"? I need it to do the next line. ^___^

[Wilwarin]

Yes, "be" is the prep. "like, as". Just be sure to lenit words that follow it!

[Mirkwoodelf]

This is a litle of topic but here it goes. I have been learning sindarin and typing it on the computer but I can't make the symbols that are in elvish. All I have is alt-137 (ë). Can someone please help me?! Thanks in advance!

[Wilwarin]

Your right, a little off topic. Why don't you ask your question in the thread about Fonts Help (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1579). There someone who knows more about it might be able to help you. :thumbs:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

you might also try this (http://www.warofthering.net/forums/vbulletin225/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1116) thread... i think its covered pretty well in there

[Stone Drake]

I want to learn Tengwar first, to english and to Sindarin (although I do not know a thing about Sindarin yet)
I now know most of the symbols, including their names, but I doubt when to use which one.

- When should I use silme nuquerna? And when just silme? Same thing with esse...
- What's the difference between rómen and órë?
- Calma and quesse.
- Vala and wilya

And if the ando is used for ND and D, how will one see the difference? (For instance, Anduril would be written A_ando_U_órë_I_lambe ?)

[Wilwarin]

Stone Drake, can you please keep questions about the Tengwar in the threads concerning Tengwar? This thread is for talking about Sindain—the spoken language, and I don't want it to turn into another Tengwar thread. Thanks!

(I copied your question over to the thread "Applying Tengwar to English", and I have attempted to answer it there. So go on over and check it out. ) :thumbs:

[Wilwarin]

Hey Tar! (maybe I should PM this to you, but I thought others would like to know as well) I found the meaning of the Sindarin word "edwen", which in that TTT Aragorn line "Edra le men, men na cuil edwen, haer o auth a nîr a naeth".
It means "second", which makes sense actually, translation: "Open you road, road to life second, far from war and tears and woe." Or, roughly translated so we can understand it: "A road opens for you, a road to a second life, far from war and tears and woe."

So what do you think?

(You haven't been here in a while, I think I'll PM this to you so you'll be sure to see it.)

[Wilwarin]

Originally posted by Aaliyah Baggins
In Sindarin how would you say Satan or by others the Devil and Demons?


I'm not sure I understand your question.......did you just want the Sindarin words? The word for "demon" is "raug", plural "roeg". There is no word for "Satan" that I know of.

[Elleth]

hi everyone this is my first posting EVER!!!:)
i just started studying Sindarin :archer:

[Lalaith]

Hey!!


Hope this is the right place to ask for a couple of translations... I really hope I'm not being too demanding but my grasp of English can be dodgy at times, and it's my first language!! It is probably best not to let me loose on other languages!

The first one is Sindarin. It's for a fanfiction and even an approximate translation would be marvellous... and don't worry about translating it all, even a couple of phrases would really help!!!:

"I fell into darkness; that is true, yet now I live again. I am at peace; I am whole. You must believe me and you must heal."

"But you died! I mourned you" or "I wept for you"

"Dry your tears, dear friend, for it is in the past. I do not regret anything, save the pain I caused you."

"I would have followed you even into the darkness. You are my king."


The other translations are just a couple of phrases - again in Sindarin

My little star
My little gem
My flower


Thank you so so much. I hope I am not putting y'all out too much; I would just really appreciate any help! I will credit you in the story, of course!! :)

[Elleth]

I know how to say your last three phrases:
my star: nin gil
my gem: nin mir
my flower: nin loth
I have not found 'little' yet

[Elleth]

:rolleyes: Alright I have searched the web and I finally found "little".
little:tithen
so my little star would be: nin tithen gil, and my little gem would be nin tithen mir.
Hope this helps you!!! :smile:

[Linwe]

Mae Govannen Elleth!
This is my first posting ever too! With the help of some friends, I am beginning to learn a bit of Sindarin. It is a very complicated language, but I am determined. Namarie

[Wilwarin]

Actually, Elleth, you have the gramar a little off. Here are the correct translations:

My little star: gil dithen nín [gil DITH-en neen]

My little gem: mîr dithen nín [meer DITH-en neen]

my flower: loth nín [loth neen]

I will have the other translations for you soon.

~ Wil

[Elleth]

Mae govannen Linwe!
:) It is good you are going to learn SIndarin. It is really a fascinating language! Go for it! :)

[Elleth]

I will keep trying to get the grammer right. Thank you for the correction Wilwarin. :)

[Lalaith]

Thank you so much! Wonderful stuff!
:thumbs: :) :thumbs:

[Lemnas]

>>my star: nin gil
my gem: nin mir
my flower: nin loth
I have not found 'little' yet<<

Acutally, mellon nín :) I think these should be
gil nín
mir nín
loth nín

we usually place possessive pronouns/adjectives after the word they describe in Sindarin :):)

[Wilwarin]

Alright Lalaith, here are the rest of your phrases. Parts of them were hard to trsnlate, so I have improvised a little, I hope you don't mind.

Original phrase:
"I fell into darkness, that is true; yet now I live again. I am at peace; I am whole. You must believe me and you must heal."

Sindarin translation:
"Dannen ne môr, no; dan hi ad cuion. Im na hîdh, im gwain. Boe lastach nin, boe nestach."

Literal translation:
I fell in darkness, yes; but now I live again. I am at peace; I am new. It is necessary you hear me, it is necessary you heal."
__________

Original phrase:
"But you died! I mourned you/wept for you"

Sindarin translation:
"Dan firnich! Nallannen allen."

Literal translation:
"But you died! I cried for you."
__________

Original phrase:

"Dry your tears, dear friend, for it is in the past. I do not regret anything, save the pain I caused you."

Sindarin translation:
"Nuitho nallol, mellon vell, han adel. Ú-dirin adel na ben, dan i naegrad allen agoren."

Literal translation:
"Cease crying, dear friend, it is behind. I don't look behind at anything, but the pain I made for you."
__________

Original phrase:
"I would have followed you even into darkness. you are my king."

NOTE: I can't find any conditional verb form (would have, could have) in Sindarin. So I had to change this phrase quite a bit. I hope it still works. But you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

Sindarin translation:
"Aphadathon le ne môr a galad. Le aran nín."

Literal translation:
"I will follow you in darkness and light. You are my king."


I hope those work for you. If anyone finds any errors in these translations please let me know. I've tried my best to get them right.

[Lalaith]

Wilwarin, you are, officially, the best! The alterations are absolutely fine! Thank you so so so much! :thumbs: :) :thumbs:

I will let you know when it goes up and I will definitely credit you!

Thank you!! :grin:

[Linwe]

I am currently just beginning to learn Sindarin. Does anyone know how many different Elvish languages there are, and if so, which one is the easiest to learn?:roflmao: Wiwarin, just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to become fluent in Sindarin?

[Wilwarin]

Well there are only really two SPOKEN Elvish languages: Sindarin and Quenya. There is also Noldorin, which is like "old Sindarin", but it isn't spoken in Middle-earth anymore (yeah, like it's a real place). But some "modern" Sindarin words can be derived from Noldorin. Which one is easier depends on each individual. I think Sindarin is easier, but I'm sure other people would say Quenya is. You'll just have to take a close look at each one and decide for yourself.

Let's see.......I've been studying Sindarin since FotR came out in theaters......so yeah, a little over a year is all. I wouldn't say I'm fluent in it though. I can speak it a little without having to look up words in the dictionary, but I'm nowhere near fluent! But I've always been able to pick up languages really fast (I was talking full clear sentances when I was only a year old. So says my mom.) :grin:

[Celebriel_Esgaledhel]

i agree with Wil. No matter how much you study Sindarin, you can never become "fluent" in it - it's not a complete language. Yes, i suppose you can compromise lots of the times, but if you want a more complete language, go for Quenya. From what I know, it's a lot more complete than Sindarin.

[Periannath]

I didn't know where to post this but this seemed like a good place. i would like to know, if there's a sindarin(and quenya ) word for 'never'? I cant find it.

[Wilwarin]

Hmm....that's a difficult one. I am not sure if there is a word for "never" in Quenya, you'll have to ask in the Quenya Thread. I haven't seen it in Sindarin, but I suppose you could improvise one. There is an unatested word "am-uir" that has been used as "forever", you could put the prep. "ú" in front of it, making it "not forvever", but since "an-uir" literally means "for eternity" it might sound kind of funny("not for eternity"), and may not be what you wanted after all.

That probably didn't help you at all, sorry!

[Periannath]

For the moment I'll have to write 'not again' whenever 'never' is requested. But it's ok. as I've said before its mostley short phrases which I then write in tengwar. I love tengwar!

[Wilwarin]

Just bumping this thread is all. It's kind of slow around here lately isn't it?

[Tom I]

Greetings,
I need some help translating english to Sindarin for a bow which I am currently making for someone.

He has given me several phrases to work with and I will use whichever of the following sounds the best (is it possible to compound the phrase into a one-word name?):

Burning Wind of the Dragon

Flaming Wind of the Dragon

Fell Wind of the Dragon

And the following phrase is to be inlayed in the bow with the name:

Focus your Spirit, Inhale the Wind, Strike with Fire, Move like Water, Solid as the Earth

I hope this isn't too daunting of a translation. Don't work too hard on it, if it isn't feasable I'll get him to change it to something a little more simple. Thanks in advance for your help!
-Tom

[Wilwarin]

I may be able to work with that. Though the names may be a little too long to be made into one word, but I'll see what I can do. I'll get back to you.

[Tom I]

Sweet! Thank you! I really appreciate it. Feel free to play around with it any way you want to try and compound the name into one word. Even "Wind [of the] Dragon" would work. You're a veritable Elven angle :)

[Wilwarin]

Alright, here is what I came up with:

I can't do "burning wind of the dragon" because I can't find the word "burn"

A word for word translation of the other two are as follows:

"Flaming wind of the dragon": Lachol gwaew e-'lûg [LAK-ol GWYW eh-LOOG]

"Fell Wind of the dragon": Gwaew dhelu e-'lûg [gwyw THEL-oo (TH like in 'the') eh-LOOG]

These are, of ocurse way too long to put into one word.

Wind-dragon: Gwaewlûg [GWYW-loog] If yo need any further help in pronouncing GWYW let me know, it's kind of har to write out the sounds.

I can translate almost all of the phrase you wanted. The first part: "Focus your spirit", is the only part I can't do. I can't find the word "focus", or any word like it. Maybe you could rephrase this part?

Also, "Strike with fire", there is no Sindarin word for "strike". Would a good alternative be "stab"? if not let me know what would and I'll see what I can do with it.

[Moriel]

Hey, Tom, I was just wondering.....What kind of wood are you using for your bow? I'm kinda designing one, and I wanted to make it myself, but I don't know what kind of wood to use. I had an idea, but I don't know if it would work.

Also, Wil - I wrote a poem--could you check it for me? I'm sure that there are some mistakes....I wrote it in like five minutes. And I was tired, so some of it might not make sense, but if you would look at it.....

[Tom I]

Wilwarin - I can't thank you enough for the translation. That was above and beyond the call of duty. You rock. The phrase is not super important, it was picked because it was out of the book of the five rings which is an ancient japanese warfare text he's rather fond of. I'll play around with it and post a revised version here in a bit. Again, can't thank you enough.


Moriel - It really depends upon the bow I'm making what type of wood I'm going to use. This one is going to be a double recurve so I'm using a bamboo core, steer horn, and maple. I'm doing alot of experimenting right now with it because double recurves are fairly difficult to build and I was never taught an exact formula. If you've not studied under a bowyer I would recommend using Hickory. It's a hard wood, not always best suited for bows but it's the easiest to start with and the bows are strong enough to hunt with. They also last a long time. Osage is also a good wood, but expensive. You can get good Staves for making bows from pretty much any Bowyer online these days, so just shoot them an email (which I would highly recomend doing because the cut of the grain matters a great deal). I would also coat it with fibreglass if you have access to the materials. Hope that helped some :) When I finish the bow I shall post some pics. It may be a rather long time though as these bows have taken me up to a year to complete in some instances as this is just a hobby. This one should only be another month or so though.

[Tom I]

Okay...I just talked with him and he said to scratch the "focus your spirit" part. Stab or slash will work in place of strike. I think the word "attack" would also work. One more thing I forgot to ask. I should like to learn how to write the characters required using the Feanorian letters. Is there a good course you could direct me to or a person who can write them well? Thanks again!

[Finrod Felagund]

My pseudonym has always been Longshot, can I get a Sindarin translation? Thanks

[Wilwarin]

OK, great, that makes it a lot easier. Here is the completed phrase then:

Original phrase: "Inhale the wind, strike with fire, move like water, solid as the earth."

Sindarin translation: "Thuio i 'waew, eitho go-naur, ribo be nen, bôr be i amar."

Literal translation: "Breath the wind, stab with fire, rush like water, steadfast like the earth."


I hope you don't mind the other changes I had to make. There were a few more words that I cound't translate exactly, so I just replaced them with the next best thing. Let me know if any of it doesn't work.

As for translating that into the Tengwar.......there are several links in the thread "For Those Who Want to Learn to Write in the Tengwar"......or something like that. Or, if you like I can write it out in the Tengwar for you and mail it to you. But I don't know if you want to go through that kind of trouble, let me know, it would be no problem on my end.


Finrod. I can't find any Sindarin word for "shot"......sorry! :(

[Finrod Felagund]

how about "arrow", I've tried the Sindarin Dictioinary Project but they have reached their limit.
What do you have for "Long" having to do with distance

or

Long Bow would be a good substitue, I know that "thalion" is Bow, right?

Thanks for your help notworthy

[Tom I]

Wilwarin that was wonderful! I'm going to attempt to figure out how to write those words from the Tengwar thread. If I have trouble I'll come back here and seek some more help. I really appreciate the translation though! :)