Liv as Arwen

[Finrod Felagund]

Some have accepted her, some still hold a grudge, is it because:

A. she used her name and clout to get her a role and used said clout to change the role to get her more screentime

B. PJ & Co. cast her for name recognition and expanded her role for marketing purposes rather than to add to the story (JarJar Binks syndrome)

C. The grudge holders are just using her as a focus for their anger at PJ for fiddling with THE BOOK.

After this I promise I will stop beating the Arwen horse:fanboy:

[Catz]

Promise???? ive a trout with your name on young man if youre telling me porkies (for those from the states...rhyming slang...pork pies=lies)
ok ill say it once again......i dont "hold a grudge" against Liv Tyler....in the right role shes an adequate actress
while ill never be a Liv Tyler apologist, i dont think shes as bad as some others, in the right parts....
and i dont dislike what they did with Arwen as a character.....it was no less than i expected and it could have worked well....in my opinion it didnt, at least not as well as it could have, mainly cos Liv Tyler is out of her depth....she has two looks.....sultry and vacant...these stand in for emotions....yes she does the elvish lines adequately....with a voice coach and her being an actress, i should damn well hope she did...unfortunately she delivers those lines in a breathy quasi Marilyn Monroe voice that just grates on my nerves....she was incapable of most of the physical challenges in the role.....shes just not right and no amount of wibbling about how beautiful she is is going to make her right for me....beauty does not an actress make, in spite of the opinions of Hollywood.....
here endeth the rant....;) lol
:catz:

[TheRingBearer]

Well I agree about her stealing roles and lines and I am angry at PJ for fiddling with the book but I think she doesn't do a bad job. I mean you can't really say there was any bad performances in 'fellowship'
We'll just have to see if she screws things up in TTT. If the book is changed so much for her sake then I might have a different opinion by late December lol

[Tar-Ancalimë]

well i think the role of arwen being changed is fine.

i dislike tyler because --as catz said-- beauty does not an actress make. shes not a good actress.

[Sindarin]

She's alright. :)

[Akiba]

I really think they could've found someone better though hold no grudges agains her

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

she wasn't the one to expand Arwens role pj was, just think, they wouldn't have cast some one as famous as Liv and not given her any lines, the Arwen change was made before the casting.
Liz Hurley raked in 5 mill for her brief stint in the spy who shagged me, imagine what Liv would be paid for a non-talking role, it wouldn't happen!

[Catz]

for once i agree with you Darkstone......*catz quickly checks outside for flying pigs*
the role was there before Liv was cast.......:naughty: lol

if anything, once she was cast, the role was cut back.....cos she was so hopeless at the physical stuff......;) :p
:catz:

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I would definatley have liked to see it played by someone else.

[Lady of Rohan]

:huh: I like Liv Tyler. I think she's really pretty.

Why don't you guys think she acts well?

:huh:

[TheRingBearer]

I have no problems with Liv Tyler :huh: What's wrong with the rest of you ;) lol

[Lady of Rohan]

thank you RingBearer... I was starting to think the whole world hated her :huh:

[Hans_Schuder]

Call me a bit out of touch, but I really was unawares her father was a famous singer. My opinion of her before seeing the film was somewhat ambiguous since the only movie I'd seen her in was "Armageddon" and that was about as God-awful as "The Faculty" so I had no way to form an opinion.

I thought she gave a very good performance. :thumbs: Now, everytime I reread "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" I feel like I've rediscovered her character.

[Catz]

I like Liv Tyler. I think she's really pretty

Why does everyone keep saying that??? :rolleyes:
Not to pick on you LoR, you arent the only one whos done it by any means, but every time someone has to say "but shes pretty/attractive/beautiful/hot"
What has that got to do with it?
of course she is...that goes without saying, given the role, tho shes not what id envisage as an elf.....shes too soft and blurry, where Elves to me are all bone structure and strong features.....what im concerned with is her acting...and she doesnt convince me that shes an Elven highborn with hundreds of years of experience....more like a video pop princess (and no that has nothing to do with her father)
she certainly wasnt up to the physical challanges of the original role and it had to be altered to cater to her shortcomings
i just dont think she was right for the role....passable but certainly not the best person for it
:catz:

[Lady of Rohan]

Originally posted by Catz
what im concerned with is her acting...and she doesnt convince me that shes an Elven highborn with hundreds of years of experience.... :huh: she convinces me. She's graceful, she moves well, she does the elvish lines well, she looks like an elf (sorry to menton her looks again catz), she does the part she did play well (maybe she has physical limitations oh well what she can do is good), and she is a nice actress (in my opinion).

[Gatsby]

i still personally think that if you dyed her hair black gweneth paltrow would've done i beautifully; she has a kind of subliminal grace and elegance that would make her perfect as an elf. but since she is a holly wood 'icon' she would probably ask for a big fat pay check.
out
gatsby

[LeoWyatt]

Well having not re-read LOTR before i saw the fellowship i couldn't comment on Liv's performance, but i'm almost 1/2 way through ROTK, and i can honestly say, without the apendicies we know sod all about her character.

Once i've read the apendicies i can comment more on how she acts, but from my opinion i don't think she plays a bad elf at all, her lines seem to be spoken well, she does appear graceful.

If we want to argue about casting and other people who could play who, then i could complain about Hugo Weaving, I sat through it and everytime i see him talking to Fordo i expect him to say "welcome to Rivendell, Mr Anderson" but that is just actor's previous films. To be honest i can't really say who i think could play Arwen, would be nice to have a british actress do it, but hey we can't have everything, exactly like Rene play Bridget, you telling me there is no female talent in Britian? But hey i'm getting distracted. If this was ever on topic in the first place.

I think it's people's imagination that they compare the characters to, but from reading the first 2 books, i can say Liv played Arwen perfectly, mainly coz there is nothing to play, besides wearing long gowns.

I'm really surprise how much British talent we have in the LOTR films, i mean, Orlando Bloom i never knew was British :) i think the yanks would get a little upset if there were NO American actors involved in the films :)

[Finrod Felagund]

Wouldn't have offended this God Fearing, Red Blooded American. The best people for the role should get the role. British, American, Bulgarian, whatever

[Gatsby]

i thought hugo did a great job!! he's a very versitile actor, elf, computer generated super man, sheep dog (babe people, hugo was in babe, i was shocked and apalled). any way i htought he was very elf like and i liked how he made elrond kind of a grumpy old man (i thought it was kind of sweet, you'd be grumpy too if you lived thousands of years!)
out
gatsby

[Tar-Ancalimë]

I liked Elrond too and I never saw the Matrix so the whole Mr. Anderson thing was never an issue with me.

We know a little more about Arwen than Liv tells us, LeoWyatt.

[Hans_Schuder]

Yes, I had no problems with Hugo Weaving either - well, gosh, I'm just supporting all the Rivendel clan now aren't I? I think I read PJ say that if he could film the whole thing again one aspect he would change is making Elrond less bitter about Isildur's failure. It's interesting to contemplate, but I've come to accept Hugo Weaving's performance as a good work of interpretation.

In fact, right now I find his action figure starring me in the face. I've oft heard it whispered that they'll break out of their packages in the night and slit their owner's throats if they begin to feel underappreciated :snooze: :battle:

[Gatsby]

hm perhaps you've spent too much time on the computer Hans_Schuder... just a thought
out
gatsby

[LeoWyatt]

I'm not sayt Hugo is a bad actor, just something that happened for me whilst watching it. I think he does a very very good Elrond :) and i think he's a great actor.

As for Arwen/Liv, once i have finished ROTK and the apendicies i can comment more. But from what i have seen and read she did a good job. People need to remember PJ has collected stuff from all the books, apendicies, diaries and stuff in order to create a complete tale. He's not adapting the book to film, he adapting middle-earth. There is more going on in middle-earth that helms deep, the Elves are departing and stuff.

[Tary]

I thought she was a very good elf. Oh i have the elrond action figure too.

[Bonos-Girl]

I think Hugo was excellent as elrond....liv is a different story though......she has such a soft wispery voice which didn't sound elven at all.....elves are quite strong, proud people....she just didn't convince me at all...

[Firith Evenstar]

Okay, my turn to express "wisdom".

As for Arwen/Liv, honestly...I think she did well. I agree that she was graceful, she did do the lines perfectly( i think the elves have a soft voice, remember...bells...)and i think she looked it. in my minds eye elves are a softer, more blurry image. harder edged people remind me of warriors with dirt smudged on their faces. but that's the beauty of elves! they are beautiful and magical, and yet fierce and strong! They have a kind of light surrounding them. And I will agree that Liv is not the best actress in the world. having said that...looking at the role she just did, i think given her background she did a hell of a job. (hides from catz =( ) Now, i'm sure they could have found another person even better to play arwen. maybe that skin and bones gwyneth paltrow :D, but now, I couldn't envision another arwen. (stupid movies engraning images in my head! >_< )

and I also will say/agree that Liv does not impress me a person. I don't know...i'm feelin that "duh- imma princess" vibe personally. not the smartest kid in class eh? i'm not up-to-date on the issue of the physical work tho. this is new to me. :blush: but i wouldn't doubt it.

looks an actress does not make, but she did well.
___

heh, elrond was fine. he's a harder emotioned person. well, to me.

*kisses everyone's feet she stepped on*
:)

[Gatsby]

well i guess it doesn't matter if we thought someone else should've been arwen, it's not like peter jackson is going to reshoot the movie with another arwen just cuz we have a prob with her. I'm not saying we should all go out and join the liv tyler fan club, all i'm saying is that it's in the past we can't do anything about it and we should just try accept it. don't have to like it, just accept it.
out
gatsby

[Finrod Felagund]

Yeah, Gatsby, you're right but it's fun to snipe and Monday morning quarterback sometimes

[Tar-Ancalimë]

OK... a thought...

IMO she looked better... no, good in the trailer... I mean sho looked the part of Strider's elf girl who's givin up everything to be with him... she convinced me (in all of the, what, five shots I've seen?).

What did you guys think?

(and, gatsby, the point of the anti liv tyler-ness is that maybe if anough fans go, yeah, lotr's great but liv sucked, the next time someone thinks of casting her for a similar role... they'll think twice. I mean, sure, I don't think for a moment they'll change lotr... but it's just that maybe casting directors wont be so eager to pick her if a lot of people are against her.)

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

I think she looks awesome in the trailer!
I love Liv, one of the best casting choices in my opinion.
she has had varied performances, but I think LotR is her best by far.
I don't mind that she can't fight, I like it how she was just at the ford and then never after except in romance and Rory Calhoon.
I was convinced that she could wield a sword seeing as the only shot you see her holding one is a stunt double so I was unperterbed by that.

[Gatsby]

true true. they probably needed a bit more star power in the film to get some of the non-tolkien fans to go. maybe her career will crumble after this cuz when everyone sees her they'll be like 'hey it's arwen'. Think that girl from Terminator
out
gatsby

[Bonos-Girl]

what girl from the terminator

[TheRingBearer]

Do you mean the one that played Sarah Coneer. That's the only woman i can think of from the terminator ;)

[Hans_Schuder]

Linda Hamilton? It may have some to do with that, but I think it's also much to do with her disastrous marriage to James Cameron. :mmmm: I'm starting to feel like a tabloid.

[Gatsby]

you know the woman in the terminator, the mom. After she played that militant mom, she couldn't gt casted as anything else; she was a one hit wonder actress
out
gatsby

[Tar-Ancalimë]

ah yes thats exactly what I meant. now maybe she wont get anymore castings and my purpose in life will be fulfilled... no actually I have better things to do.

[Firith Evenstar]

okay, everyone ask yourself this:

Did Liv ruin the movie for you? Did it really bother you that bad?

again, she's not the coolest person in the world, but, if you've ever acted, then, well, I have some respect for her. thats a huge thing for her. imo(got that from tar. lol) she did fine.

[El Ravager]

Liv made an awesome Arwen. It was exactly how I'd always imagined her (her being Arwen, not Liv). I don't think they could've picked a better person. The looked the part, and played the part. Elrond was really good, too. He made a pretty good Elf.

I honestly can't really think of anyone on the cast I didn't like. They all played their roles great, and most of them looked right for the role too. Granted it's not exactly how I always envisioned it when reading the books, but I thought everyone did a great job.

[Loravarnion Darkstone]

Mark Hamil was also a one hit wonder.
but we all know Liv won't fall in that category, for one thing, she was famous before LotR so people won't only recognise her for it, especially considerring she had a ten minute role in a three hour movie (I timed it, it adds up to ten minutes)
and she has her father to back her up as well.

[LeoWyatt]

The thing is casting directors will want to sign the actors who have been in LOTR because it is imensly popular, however! Looking on IMDB does tell you what movies are coming out with people in, Liv don't have many, well err, actually 1 Jersey Girl (2003) .... Maya

However the other actors haven't fared much better, the only actor who has got quite a few is Orlando, good on him!

[Bonos-Girl]

wooohooo....go orli....but then again he was the only one htat didn't really have a huge acting career before so things were likely to pick up for him whereas someone like lij who's been acting since he was tiny wasn't going to get many parts coz of fotr...if you see what i mean.

[Gatsby]

the thing with orli is he looks COMPLETLEY (gee i wish i could spell that morrectly) different when he doesn't have that wig on, and he' s gorgeous so i'm pretty confident that he'll have a lovely career ahead of him. i know i'll go see whatever movie he's in!!
out
gatsby
i'll probably see the calcium kid (his next movie) like ten times!

[Bonos-Girl]

i planning to see it more like 20 times!!...at least!!

[Gatsby]

trying to show me up pil ? cuz i will take you!! :)
out
gatsby

[Bonos-Girl]

huh....what'd pil say??!!

[Gatsby]

ph sorry i had just posted something to pil on another thing and i was in a rush to get off... sorry wasn't thinking (the stupid ADD) forgive me bono?
out
gatsby

[Bonos-Girl]

i wasn't really cross with you or anything..just sligthly confuzzled!!

[Gatsby]

aren't we all though? :)
out
gatsby

[Adunauriel]

Yes, I would think most of us are.

Oh, and I don't completely disslike Liv as Arwen. I'm iffy:huh:

[Bonos-Girl]

i'm always confuzzled!!! lol.....no i'm being serious here!!!

[Herenyë]

Liv as arwen was that bad.....she did a good job......but i her with an english accent.....freakie.....very freakie.......=P.......but yea mayb he could of picked someone better.......liv tyler didnt do a bad job.....but she didnt do a great job thou......she did an alrite job.....

[legolaslover]

Okay I have seen TTT and I am totally okay with Arwen!! I loved the small yet important part that she played!! I thought TTT was totally great!! and Legolas is really hot!!! hehe

[Adunauriel]

Yes, I did find myself likeing Liv/Arwen more after seeing TTT....;)

[Herenyë]

I have to watch the movie.....my post earlier was kinda messed up cuz i did messed up alot in it......heehee.....but i never hated Arwen thou......

[Adunauriel]

It's Ok P/L, and I don't hate Arwen either.....;)

[Herenyë]

Cool!.....She is cool in TTT.....i watched the trailer for TTT and Arwen said You have the Gift of foresight.....tell me what you see......but when i watched the movie she didnt say it.....unless i missed it cuz i was drifting off thinking about Legolas.....lol.....but my brother didnt hear her say that cuz he is basically a Arwen lover.....lol.....but okay.....

[Hollie]

Hi! My first time in this forum, and I have to talk about this!
I don't like Liv Tyler because she got the part only because she is the daughter of a famous singer.
She made Arwen really sloooow. Why does she takes so much long to say something!? She's not an Ent!
And I think she didn't undertand her charcater. She should have read the book at least.
I wish PJ wouldn't make her parts so long. It's boring, and besides it's pure marketing. It doesn't exist in the book.
All she knows how to do is to promenade and to sew.
Nobody is buying that thing about the Brave Arwen.
Lord, I really don't like her...

Well, that all. Forgive my English! I'm learning.

[Elf angel]

I have to agree (1/2) with you on this one Hollie....i don't hate her but i don't like her either...
but maybe she is right as Arwen or else PJ won't picked her...peace... :grin: (i like her character in the book tho' )

[Herenyë]

I agree with you about her talking so sloooooow......its like she is getting old or something and i heard she makes her voice like that.....and plus like she talks like that all the time.....it takes her to say I do not fear them like more then a minute......i dont hate her but her talking kinda bugs me cuz like its so slow......but she did a good job besides the talking lol......Your english is good thou........

[Hollie]

I don't hate Arwen. Neither Liv Tyler. I just don't like her.
Arwen.. in the book, I don't kown. She almost didn't appear. It's a character that wasn't developed that much, like to make a conclusion about her. But, once you read all the story, THE woman of the book, is Eowyn.
And about the fact that she speaks slow, I think thah elves have a gentle breeze, and some mysticism. But you are not "mystic" by speaking slow. It's like a ghost. Legolas doesn't speak slow, and you still can see on him the elvish bearing.
I don't know if you understood what I said, was hard to put it in English.
In a few words, Liv Tyler was like a little girl who plays to be princes. That's all that you can see, when you see her in the movie.

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Hello everyone :) ,

Is here anyone who likes this wonderful and talented actress? :cool:

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

I think Andy Serkis would have been a better Arwen. Hey that's what they should have done cast Andy as Arwen and Liv as Gollum, though I'm sure Liv wouldn't beable to do it, so they should have given Andy both roles:thumbs:

[Abendstern]

roflmao
andy serkis with a long-haired wig, elf ears and arwen's dresses ... ? It's worth a look!!
but even if I think that would be interesting I really do think liv tyler is a fine actress. she was good in lotr and as far as I've seen her other films, she was gourgeous in them (armageddon not included - that's not a movie where you have to act at all). Have you seen 'heavy' or 'plunkett & macleane' or 'cookie's fortune'? she was really impressive there.

[ArwenEvenstar5540]

I have seen Heavy, Pluckette and Mclean, and Cookie's Fortune and I thought she was horrid in all of them. But by far the worst job she's ever done is in Inventing the Abbots...at first I thought the character she was playing was suppose to be retarded but then as the movie went on I realized, no that's just Liv's acting. I couldn't believe that was the actress they chose for LOTR. I will say she did her best in LOTR and it does show but they could have found someone alot better.

[Abendstern]

never seen Inventing the abbotts (not the kind of movie i would see voluntarily...;) ). and i'm not that good in judging actors. i only can say, if they convince me or not (i ever had the feeling, that denise richards in starship troopers was forced to say her lines ...) and liv tyler really convinced me in those movies and especially in lotr.
and i'm trusting the directors. there are bernado bertolucci, oliver stone, robert altman and peter jackson. they obviously thought, that she did a good job so far. and if they don't now that ...

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Liv is perfect as Arwen. i can't imagine other actress instead of her. Nobody could play this role but her.

[Abendstern]

as i said somewhere before... that's right. she is a good actress! :p

[Lady Luthien]

I think Liv's appearance and voice are already elvish and very graceful...I agree that she is a very talented actress and those who say she isnt cannot recognize good talent. She just...WAS Arwen...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Catz you have made some awfully good points. I am close to actually agreeing with you! *gasp* ;)
That is what I've been trying to pinpoint for so long about what I don't like about Tyler's Arwen. She isn't strong enough! Yes, she is graceful, but she doesn't have the inner strength, she is, like Catz said, "blurry". And her Elvish is a bit forced, although it could be worse.
And I loved Armageddon! pfbbt

[Aranel of Mirkwood]

Some of these responces are so funny, and o true. Not the ones being nice about her of course. They should have kept Glorfindel, plus her voice is so creepy. She just really annoys me!!!! She is an alright Arwen I guess, though.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Yeah, I don't think that she did a bad job, just that it could have been better. :grin:

[Abendstern]

the world is full of things that could have been better... :)

and i loved armageddon too, it just was a little bit ... err...modest? (right word???)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

roflmao So true!
I dunno if that's right or not, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. :huh:

[Abendstern]

:grin: i mean, the storyline wasn't very intelligent, you could leave your brain at home ... something like that (but it was still fun! i love popcorn movies!)
it's kinda difficult to discuss in another language. i know what i want to say but not exactly how. mecry but i'm learning! so don't mind if like yoda i'm talking ... ;)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

roflmao That was funny!
Hey, I leave my brain at hime all the time! ;) I wonder what "Jersey Girl" will be like. I forget who else is in that. :huh:

[Abendstern]

there are ben affleck and jennifer lopez as main stars i suppose. i think it will be funny. it's a kevin smith movie. I LOVE Kevin Smith movies! :hyper: and i'm a liv tyler fan, so two reasons to watch it. well, and ben affleck is not that bad looking...:grin: i wonder if we will see jay and silent bob...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

You know, I dunno what it's rated! If it's R then I can't go, and I don't know if my parents will let me see it even if it's PG13, 'cause it just depends on the type of movie. *sigh*

[Abendstern]

:( sorry, i didn't mind your age... but i think it's not gonna be so ... err... rude as his usual movies like "jay and silent bob strike back". it seems to be a love story. okay, liv's role seems to be something like the "dirtiest mouth in new jersey", but i think they could keep it PG13.

:hyper: i've seen some caps of the latest rotk trailer and i'm three seconds away from a very serious heart attack!!!!!:hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

[Gwaihir]

I didn't want Arwen to be played by Liv Tyler. I can't stand that raspy voice that is meant to be "full of wisdom". And they over-used her. She didn't even talk until RotK in the books. All that she does in TTT is cry. I don't like her.

[Abendstern]

Well, i would think that there's not much she can do against her voice. :p and in my opinion her "Arwen-Voice" sounds better than her normal voice, even if you sometimes hear, that she lowered it.

and aren't you guys sick of lamenting about the same "thatwasn'tinthebook" thing? book is book and movie is movie, that's it. and if you wasn't satisfied with liv's role in TTT claim the authors not her. I don't think that she jumped up and down (or something like that) in front of peter jackson and the others, begging "oh, let me cry a little bit more in this movie, pleeeaaaase!!!".:grin:

[Abendstern]

:o Look! those things happen when you're eating, typing, surfing on 5 websites, cuddling your dog and THINKING at the same time! you're typing really strange things. don't ask me why I mixed up 'claim' and 'blame' but i did. i meant "blame the authors" not "claim the authors". well, if you want to claim them, feel free...but...you get what i mean?:blush:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Ah! That sets it straight! I was really puzzled for a bit back there! But now I understand. And yes, what makes a good book won't necessarily make a good movie! What would people think if their beloved Aragorn just suddenly up and married this mystery girl that you hadn't ever seen in the whole nine hour production??

[Abendstern]

lol yeah, they would ask themselves who the hell this chick is and why he didn't take the hot blonde...

[Lady Luthien]

that is true....Arwen is much stronger in the books than she is in the movies...she does seem a bit pouty and weak now that I think of it...perhaps if she could have appeared stronger it would have been better...but that was not her choice. she is still a good actress...she was just doing what Peter Jackson wanted. In the TTT i didnt like her, but I liked the scene in the FoTR when she tells the ringwraiths that she means business...what happened to that Arwen in TTT??

[Abendstern]

i guess some die hard book-fans happened... *ducks* ...maybe... i don't know how much attention peter jackson pay to those guys ... i mean, there WERE scenes with Arwen in Helms Deep. I think those scenes were much more like the bruinen-scene in FOTR. And let us wait til ROTK. no fight scenes I guess, but a little bit more rebellion against daddy...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Yeah, that's something to look forward to at least. She did seem much cooler in FotR, I must admit. All in all I think she did a pretty good job, maybe my problem is just what scenes she was given to do. Who knows? This make take a long time to figure out...uh oh...lol ;)

[Jade]

I love Liv Tyler, she was wonderful as Arwen and it was so neccessary that they expand her role in the movie. She's important to Aragorn's character, one of the main reasons that drives him to accept his destiny, and I think its just really interesting and not to mention so sad to watch her have to choose between her father and her lover - immortality and mortality.

I'm glad that they didn't make her a fighter in the TTT, they showed in FotR that she's capable of defending herself, and the flashbacks were better in my opinion (though I do wish they would have put some of her scenes from Helms Deep in the TTT EE because I'm curious to see how they turned out). And I think Tolkien purists would have swore up and down if they portrayed Arwen as a fighter, because thats Eowyns role. I think they stayed true to the book by letting Liv play her more feminine and gentle but determined to be with Aragorn. I loved the way she deepened her voice, it made her sound older, not like a little girl because she is supossed to be around 3000 yrs old. I thought her scenes with Viggo were great, love their chemistry. All around I thought Liv Tyler played her beautifully, and to quote her from the TTT EE DVD, proved that "you don't have to put a sword in a woman's hands to show that she's strong".

[Abendstern]

yeah, it would've been interesting how the whole helm's deep-arwen-thing turned out first. I loved the few behind-the-scenes things they had on the specials dvd (including her stunt double - interesting moves!), but those scenes make me want to see more!:grin:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

That's a great quote, Jade!! I really hope to see the EE soon, it sounds like it'll have some fabulous stuff. I just watched the theatrical version again the other day, and I was impressed by Liv this time. I have been kind of in between for a while, but now I have to agree that she did great. But I do not want her fighting! It would change her character too much...after the disaster of Faramir she needs to stay similar to the book, or it may take away from Eowyn too. *frown* But PJ has done great so far...*crosses fingers* ;) :thumbs:

[Abendstern]

Don't worry, there will be no fighting ...just a little bit behind-the-scenes stuff. I know I'm nearly the only one who is disappointed of this...mecry
on the third dvd they have a good explanation for all that helm's deep stuff and a very convincing explanation for the whole faramir-osgiliath thing. know I do understand the changes...:thumbs:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Oh, well that's good. We don't even have a DVD player yet so I may have to wait a while for those...*frown* but at least I can know that they were legitimate. :thumbs:
Go Arwen! I decided that I officially like Liv. Yay. She sounds nice. And she's fond of Orlando. Bonus points for that! :grin: ;)

[Abendstern]

Congratulations, Lalaith! Welcome to the club! :grin:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Thank you! :wave: whoohee...

[Prince Faramir]

Well, I don´t have DVD player either and I can´t buy any DVD. Even tough, I can see DVD in my computer but is very boring and anyway can´t buy such an expensive DVd box set.
Any way: I don´t like Arwen, is a complete useless character, she´s like some ornament or something just to Aragorn get married, bah!. Yes, movie improved this, and for that reason we have so many wrong changes pfbbt and Arwen is still the less interesting character pfbbt and Aragorn-Arwen the less touchy romance and relationship :witch:
I liked her in books she´s a little bit interesting, a mysterious elf, sad and deep, I think.:fanboy:

[Elenwë]

I think that Arwen as a character is important and it gave some romance to the story, which sometimes is necesary. Liv Tyler did a great job, she's both beautiful and talented and she seemed to enjoy her role, that's the main thing to me, otherwise it would be a fake performance and it would ruin the whole thing. What I didn't like from the Two Towers is that sometimes they showed the bond between Aragorn and Arwen in a dramatic way, I can say that Aragorn falling wasn't important at all, we all knew that Arwen was looking after him somehow, to me that kind of things are cheesy an it spoiled the meaning of such story. I can say I like Liv as Arwen, but the role can be ruined but that kind of scenes and stuff.

[Harlow]

Arwen in the book is brilliant and i love her to death but in the movie i hate her, it could be live it could be that they made her part way more important than it should have been. i want to like liv i really do... but every time i see her on screen all i can think is 'get your grubby little hands off of him'

[Abendstern]

So you are an aragorn fan?:grin:
And I think, it was good that they made her more important in the movies (even if I think that a few minutes in a three-hour movie doesn't make her THAT important, am I right?). I love the books, but they have a lack of female characters (yeah I know, eowyn is strong, but she's only ONE among how many males?) and the movies haven't this problem, I think.

[Elenwë]

I agree on that, by the time the book was written I guess women were not seen as powerful persons, in my opinion, Ewoyn was like the tomb boy by then and I guess it was weird but I think giving more importance to Arwen in the movie made her a more special character and it gave more "romance" to the movie, like I said before sometimes it was little dramatic, but like my mom says: "love is that hard"

[Harlow]

Originally posted by Abendstern
So you are an aragorn fan?:grin:


isn't everyone a fan of Aragorn lol

[Elenwë]

Well, almost (not talking for myself... I love :aragorn: ) lol

[Abendstern]

well, it's hard NOT to have a crush on this guy...:blush:
But that doesn't mean I should've a problem with liv. don't forget that she's MARRIED! :)

[Elenwë]

Yeah, I heard she got married to the Spacehog leader man, he isn't that famous and as I far as I know the have only ONE hit, so I guess that makes them a one-hit-wonder, but still that song is kind of good :rock:

[Abendstern]

Haven't heard anything of them. When they report in the german magazines about liv's wedding, they always mention him as the lead singer of spacehog, as you should know who they are... strange.

[Elenwë]

And you know, the guy is kind of weird, he behaves like he's Mick Jagger or something, I don't like him.

[Abendstern]

mmh...never met him...;) and they only mention him as liv's husband, singer of ..., that's it. nothing about what he's doing or saying. so i can't judge his behaviour... besides one have to be careful about the things they write in magazines ...:)

[Elenwë]

I know what you mean, those articles are not necessarily true, but I saw the guy in a red carpet and i saw once an interview, so that's why I say what I say ;)

[Abendstern]

Then you may know what you're talking about... ;) (enough twinkling, I'm getting a cramp in my right eye...)

I'm wondering why there are no rumors about orli and liv having an affair (or did I simply miss it?)... I mean, they're always hanging together at premieres (like in NZ) and doing the interview stuff together (it's often like ...Viggo...Ian...Orli & Liv...). and the press is normally very fast with those rumors...

[Elenwë]

lol...

Maybe is clear to everybody that they're just friends, I remember watching on E! the premiere of TTT in L.A. and they were very close to each other and huging and everything but the interviewer didn't see anything wrong with it and thought it was very cute.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I'm wondering why there are no rumors about orli and liv having an affair (or did I simply miss it?)... I mean, they're always hanging together at premieres
I know what you mean, I've wondered about that for a while too. But I read a Liv interview the other day and she called him her "little elven brother" and I don't find that very romantic. ;) lol And with the hugging thing, I think he's just a bit overly-affectionate (but it's so sweet! :loveyou: ) b/c I feel like I've seen pictures of him hugging just about every person on the planet...and then some... lol roflmao

And I can't remember if I ever posted this here or not but I have finally converted into a Liv-liker. I enjoyed her Arwen a lot last time I watched TTT (again ;) ). So there! I'm on topic! lol

[Abendstern]

yeah, all of this guys seem to be very huggy and kissy...:cuddles: (ha! and i'm going to see them tomorrow...well, I try to...waving my shield "marry me...anyone" lol )

yesterday i bought an english copy of LOTR (i've only read it in german) and after reading the a/a appendix (making me very depressed ... as ever mecry ) I was surprised how many lines I recognised from the movies (parts of elrond's speech regarding arwen's and aragorn's future in ttt and this "there is no ship now..." line from the abc special).

[Lalaith of Rohan]

lol! I take it you already went then? Were they hot--I mean did they seem nice? ;) :naughty: lol roflmao
I didn't get super depressed over the Arwen/Aragorn thing, but the part in the "Lost Tales" that I'm reading about Turin and Niniel really got to me. So sad! But I'm sure I'll get all mushy now if I re-read the appendix...it's just that time of year that makes it seem worse...*sniff*

[Fëalossë]

I PICK C.

No explanation is necessary.

verymad

[Abendstern]

:) Yes, Lalaith, they were absolutely ... erm... interesting :naughty: .

err, Fëalossë, maybe it's because english isn't my first language, but I really don't understand you... why do you pick C? Which C? and why are you verymad ???:huh: Did I miss something?

[Lalaith of Rohan]

No explanation is necessary.
Er, Fealosse, you might be wrong on that one.
I'm glad that they were *cough* interesting, Abendstern. Was Orlando *cough* *choke* particularly *ahem* fascinating? I would imagine so... :blush:
Anyway to be on topic...somehow...*keeps thinking about Orlando* Ah yes what was I saying? :grin: Um...well Liv is Arwen so that
of on topic...and I want to talk about Orlando...so...
Has anyone else noticed that everyone keeps interviewing Orlando and Liv TOGETHER? I find that...odd

[Elenwë]

Why is that odd? I mean, it doesn't mean anything, at least not for me...

[Abendstern]

:( Unfortunately, Lalaith, Orli wasn't there (I can think of one or twohundred sweeties who were disappointed...:) ).

Elenwe, I wouldn't say that it mean something, but it's none the less strange... I mean, who put them always together? Do they choose so or is there something like a shedule? Like "put the elves together"... :huh:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Maybe that's it...because why else would they? It just seems to happen like that, so I don't think they choose, and their characters never ever meet in the movies so why would they always have them together...wow this is a long ramble, but at least I got the point across..hopefully. ;) lol

[Fëalossë]

C. The grudge holders are just using her as a focus for their anger at PJ for fiddling with THE BOOK.


That C. (First post.) But then, I'm just a purist. :grin: :grin:

[Abendstern]

Oh, thank you Fëalossë! Now it's clear! It's been a long time since I've first read that thread and I really forgot what stands there...
So you're a purist... tell me, why do you watch the movies then? I'm just wondering, cause the so-called purists seem just walk into the theatre to find the differencenes and get a heartattack... :)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Well at least we now know where you stand on the Arwen issue...I entirely forgot about the first post...I think I did read it a while ago though...I bet I did...
Perhaps Fealosse just isn't a picky purist! Although I know what you mean, why do they still bother with the movies if FotR wasn't good enough for them? *shrug* :huh:

[Striderfan]

Purists can be very cool :cool:...and then again they can be really frustrating sometimes...just like anything, it really depends on the individual, because I know purists who do nothing but rave about how much they want to lynch PJ :angry: , and some that are the most interesting people to talk to and who have found a good balance between the book and the movie :grin:...but now I'm ranting, so I'll just stop ;)

Liv as Arwen–at first, I kinda didn't like her in Fotr, but then I think she did a great job in TTT, and now I really can't imagine anyone else playing the part....sure, she isn't the greatest speaker of elvish, but I think she definitely looks the part and does a good job making a character believable that is only mentioned in a few sentences in the actual text of Lotr (not counting the Appendicies...am I spelling that wrong? I think I am...;) lol )

Liv & Orli??? :elfeek: Nahhh....;) I really don't think so, I mean, have you seen how OTHER cast members greet eachother? :o Kissing, hugging, jumping-on-top-of, and not just members of the opposite sex lol...I think our Actor Fellowship are just a close bunch ;)

[Abendstern]

then I know the wrong purists... :( (mine is counting the "mistakes". after ROTK he said to me, that there were many mistakes and I thought first he means something like aragorn wearing a nosepiercing... but he meant the differences compared to the book... I found that very strange...)

oh, and we were just musing about orli and liv...:naughty: roflmao I really don't think that there's something...really...

[Fëalossë]

*sigh*... I'll admit, I'm a purist, and sometimes I get a little heated when I talk about this stuff... Sorry...

In any case, I understand completely that PJ would have to take lots of stuff out of the book to make it fit into a movie. But he certainly didn't need to add anything, which is why the Arwen stuff is a really sore spot for me... It was just another way (in my opinion, at least) to get little boys to watch the movies. I can't think of many movies that become successful without sex appeal. (Sickening.) :hmppf:

I must admit that I thought of changes as "mistakes" for a while too... lol

[Jade]

Originally posted by Fëalossë
*sigh*... I'll admit, I'm a purist, and sometimes I get a little heated when I talk about this stuff... Sorry...

In any case, I understand completely that PJ would have to take lots of stuff out of the book to make it fit into a movie. But he certainly didn't need to add anything, which is why the Arwen stuff is a really sore spot for me... It was just another way (in my opinion, at least) to get little boys to watch the movies. I can't think of many movies that become successful without sex appeal. (Sickening.) :hmppf:

I must admit that I thought of changes as "mistakes" for a while too... lol

I don't see that. Your right that she was used to get more people to watch the movies, but I don't think it was for that reason. There wasn't really any sex appeal. No sex scenes, Liv Tyler was covered up at all times, and nobody ever said anything dirty. If little boys were going to see LotR's for the sex appeal, then they definetly didn't get they're money's worth. Unless they were all going just to see Liv's face and hair for 10 minutes, because thats about how much screentime she had in each film. Liv Tyler, gorgeous as she is, was made up in this movie to look more proper and lady-like than anything else.

In my opinion, little boys, teenage boys, boys of any age would have gone to see the movie whether it had Arwen in it or not. The movie had a male audience from the get-go. Its an action movie, a boys movie, and I hate to put all boys in the same catagory, but most don't care if Elrond is trying to break up Aragorn and Arwen, or if she gets the guy in the end. Arwen was more for girls than she was for guys. Girls like romance, girls like girl-power, girls like drama, and girls like to cry (I'm a girl, I know these things). Arwen's role was expanded to appeal to a female audience. She has romantic scenes with Aragorn, one girl-power scene when she drowns the ring-wraithes, and dramatic tear-jerking scenes with her father.

And now the purists will say, "Eowyn's does all of those things, and is more important, and way better". You have to think the way they (movie execs and people who market the movies) think. Eowyn's not introduced until the second movie, she doesn't start to kick *** until the third movie, and her romance with Faramir doesn't happen until after she kicks *** in the third movie. They needed a girl for the first movie. Arwen comes in and does her job.

I'm not a purist, but I have read the books, and even though I know Arwen was only used to get more people to watch, I'm happy they added her. I never minded her in the books, and as a girl, I liked the romance, I thought her scenes with Elrond were very moving, and she just gave the movie some extra grace and female presensce, which the books lacked.

[Miruvor]

That's a good point. If it was for nothing but more of a female presence, then that is reason enough. The books were written in a time when female presence in society in general was background only. This day and age needs more balance of gender placement, or critics and women would notice the abscence. Arwen was a very wise decision in hindsight.

[Elenwë]

Ok... I finally got to see RotK, it was great, I really mean it, I've never cry so much with a movie and now I know for sure was a perfect Arwen, I loved the kiss between her and Aragorn, amazing! :thumbs:

I didn't think of Liv and Orlando toghether in interviews was an elve kind of thing, sorry :grin: but still I don't think there's something going on, at least I WANT to believe there's nothing going on

[Jade]

Originally posted by Hollie
Hi! My first time in this forum, and I have to talk about this!
I don't like Liv Tyler because she got the part only because she is the daughter of a famous singer.
She made Arwen really sloooow. Why does she takes so much long to say something!? She's not an Ent!
And I think she didn't undertand her charcater. She should have read the book at least.
I wish PJ wouldn't make her parts so long. It's boring, and besides it's pure marketing. It doesn't exist in the book.
All she knows how to do is to promenade and to sew.
Nobody is buying that thing about the Brave Arwen.
Lord, I really don't like her...

Well, that all. Forgive my English! I'm learning.

No offense, but I don't buy that. Why would they cast her because she was the daughter of Steven Tyler? That's stupid. Was the plan to get Steven Tyler fans to go see the movie by including his daughter in it? No. Liv was famous and made a name for herself long before LotR and not just for who her father was. People get cast in movies based on talent. Obviously PJ thought she was talented otherwise he wouldn't have cast her. There are more than 100 other actresses out there who have much bigger name's than Liv Tyler, and he could have picked anyone. Do you really think he would have picked an actress he thought wasn't right for the role just because her dad was a famous rock star? Yes they wanted a big name for the role, but I'm pretty sure they wanted someone that was a good actress also.

Talking slow, I didn't see that. Breathy yes, but slow, not really. Liv has said that she didn't read the books before she was cast but once they started shooting everyone on set including herself had a copy of the books and read them quite often. Everyone complains that her scenes are too long, but if you think about it is 10 minutes in a 3hr movie really that long? Not really.

[Abendstern]

Wow, Jade, there's nothing left to say... :thumbs:

Elenwë, you're right, ROTK is a GREAT movie, I was crying too mecry
and that kiss... I remember some (jealous?) fans who complained about Liv not kissing Viggo passionately enough in the first two movies (and thinking that they would've been better) ... Ha! Take THIS! lol

[Miruvor]

Go Jade ! ! !

As for Liv reading the book - that couldn't have helped much, since she is hardly in it -- and she has to play her part in dynamic with Aragorn, and his part was changed extremely.
I picture elves as all slow and methodic and thoughtful. Hyperactivity would not suit them.

[Jade]

Thanks guys.

Found a wonderful essay in Arwen's defense, that I thought was really interesting and I totatally agree with. Probably one of the most well written essays I've ever read.

http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/030101.html

[Elenwë]

lol I was jelous too... I wish I was Arwen to kiss that man *sighs*

I totally agree with Jade, I heard that Peter Jackson gave the part to Liv because she is one talented actress, besides she is one of the most beautiful woman in the world along with Cate Blanchet. Steven Tyler is a great musician but that's a different story. Liv has a carrer as an actress, not as a rock star daughter.

[Amithrellas]

I agree, Elenwë. I think Liv has been tarred with some awful criticism – undeservedly.
I really do believe it all boils down to jealousy – deservedly lol
I can't imagine anyone else playing Arwen

[LuthienT]

I think Liv was great as Arwen and she did an awsome job.

[KaraC]

I had my doubts about her before I saw the movies, because, well, I love the books and I didn't think Jackson was going to hold that true to the books, and at the time, someone had terrified me with the thought that he was going to replace Legolas with Arwen in the fellowship. Luckily, Jackson isn't a nutcase and knows what he was doing.
And while I would've LOVED to see Glofindel, Liv did a very good job being Arwen. Did what she had to do, and yet was able to step back and let the men do what they had to do. Awesome.

[LuthienT]

yes i wanted to se Glofindel, but I think having Arwen in there really shaped Aragorns Character

[KaraC]

Yes, she did...
I suppose I forgive PJ. ;)

[LuthienT]

We need more elf women kicking butt though, oh well.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Erg! Can you imagine? Arwen instead of Legolas? The very thought.... lol
I have apparently missed a lot in this thread...unusual. I liked Liv a lot in FotR, and she was cool in TTT, although her role was a bit broken up. I would have enjoyed seeing more of her in RotK, but who knows what the EE holds in store! ;) lol

[Elenwë]

I can't wait to watch RotK EE :hyper:

[LuthienT]

me neither, they elf women kicking orc tail doesn't necessarily need to be Arwen, mabey Galadriel

[Elenwë]

I don't know Galadriel is too elegant and divine to even touch and orc, I can't imagine her with a sword in her hand.

[Abendstern]

well, I think Galadriel wouldn't need a sword to kick some orc's butt...:p

[LuthienT]

Yes she is pretty strong character... She revolted against the Valar.. Question do you think Celegorm would of stayed with Galadriel if she didn't redeem herself and wasn't able to pass over the Sea?

[Elenwë]

I don't think so...

[Lady Galadriel]

I just cannot understand the hatred of Arwen/Liv by LOTR fans. In real life she seems like a sweet girl who possesses humility. As to the talk of her getting this role because she is famous, that is dubious. I think she was chosen for a good reason. As to the decision to expand her role in LOTR, it was purely PJ's decision. PJ wanted to do more with her character. Afterall, how can Aragorn marry her in the third movie if she is not present throughout. Besides, what is 10 mins in 3 hours.

She plays her part well too. So well it is chilling. Think about it. If someone you love more than life itself told you it was just a dream, how would you feel? If your father looked into your future and only saw death, how would you feel (from an elf point-of-view)? Her main role was to depict her choice of mortality vs mortality and the difficult decision she had to make. Especially considering her great love for her father. Remember, the fourth age began with the parting of Elrong and Arwen. And indeed it was a bitter parting.

As to those who said her voice was slow. Well, I must have been watching an entirely different dvd. For those of you who said she did not have depth, as mentioned before, her role was to show her decision and her love for Aragorn. She was solemn and saddened as she needed to be.

Also, she did not need to use a sword for me to respect her character. Wisdom is a strength as well.

[Abendstern]

YAY, Lady Galadriel! Go! :hooray:

Really, I'm pleased to see that there are more people who like arwen than I first thought... :thumbs:

[Balrog X]

I think Arwen i HOT

[Lady Luthien]

well...thanks for that profound comment, Balrog X lol

I loved Liv Tyler as Arwen...I thought she was perfect. I mean...dark hair, bright blue eyes, pale skin, beautiful, graceful. She just has that other-wordly, elvish light to her. And not only the way she looked, but the way she acted...so poised and calm and graceful, just like a she elf would have been.I thought she did a great job portraying Arwen. I ask you: who could have been a better match?

[Balrog X]

I don't think it could after how you described her
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Stupid Fat Hobbit"~Gollum~ somwhere in middle earth TTT

[Abendstern]

uh, as far as I remember there was a thread "who should be arwen?" or something like that... some of the suggestions were very strange... :gaga: mmh, but some were good in my eyes, but I still think Liv is the perfect arwen...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Question do you think Celegorm would of stayed with Galadriel if she didn't redeem herself and wasn't able to pass over the Sea?

Um...I think you mean "celeborn" ;) , and I think he would have but who knows...

Good comments, BalrogX. :) ;)

[Luthien Anwamanë]

Originally posted by Lady Galadriel
I just cannot understand the hatred of Arwen/Liv by LOTR fans. In real life she seems like a sweet girl who possesses humility. As to the talk of her getting this role because she is famous, that is dubious. I think she was chosen for a good reason. As to the decision to expand her role in LOTR, it was purely PJ's decision. PJ wanted to do more with her character. Afterall, how can Aragorn marry her in the third movie if she is not present throughout. Besides, what is 10 mins in 3 hours.

She plays her part well too. So well it is chilling. Think about it. If someone you love more than life itself told you it was just a dream, how would you feel? If your father looked into your future and only saw death, how would you feel (from an elf point-of-view)? Her main role was to depict her choice of mortality vs mortality and the difficult decision she had to make. Especially considering her great love for her father. Remember, the fourth age began with the parting of Elrong and Arwen. And indeed it was a bitter parting.

As to those who said her voice was slow. Well, I must have been watching an entirely different dvd. For those of you who said she did not have depth, as mentioned before, her role was to show her decision and her love for Aragorn. She was solemn and saddened as she needed to be.

Also, she did not need to use a sword for me to respect her character. Wisdom is a strength as well.

Well said, Lady Galadriel!!! :thumbs:

[Elenwë]

Go LG!

[LuthienT]

yes go LG! I agree with you!

[Lady Galadriel]

Guys, I was reading a USA Today article linked to the Council of Elrond website and the interviewer asked each cast member what would you toss into Mount Doom. The responses that stood out most for me are these:


Viggo: Arrogance
Orlando: Lies
Liv: Cruelty


Could it be that Liv knows that almost EVERYONE is in an uproar because of her much COVETED 10 mins in each 3-hour film? Well, I would have her know that she has at least one Lord of the Rings fan who applauds her performance in the movie and who admires her resilience and strength through it all. I say strength because I read somewhere that she burst out crying when she was told that LOTR fans hated Arwen.

Anyone interested in reading the comments of all the other cast members, click the link below
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-01-14-lotr-farewell_x.htm

[Elenwë]

She cried? Well there are two LotR fans who applauds her peformance, I'm a huge fan of her and she's both beautiful and talented. I can't think of anybody else as Arwen, she was perfect in that role, people who say that is out of jelousy and envy, no good.

[Abendstern]

same here :wave:
In the SEE TTT Specials she said that she cried after reading some comments in the internet... nasty little fansssss pfbbt

[LuthienT]

yeah! Now that makes me angry,verymad come on people, you don't think celebrities Read the Internet, they are human! People Liv is Arwen! Get over it! Come on, Those of you who diss are proably just Jealous! She is talented, the way she played Arwen is just like I(and mabey alot of you lot around here) imagined it! And the movie is done, Get over it! (sorry, got carried away)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

It's quite all right to get carried away, I do it often. ;) lol
Way to go Liv! Won Hello's "Most Elegant Woman" poll, very good. :thumbs:
You know, I like Liv because she seems to be genuinely nice...which is another reason why I like Orlando. Yay.

[LuthienT]

YAY! Yes I agree, they seem so nice!:)

[Elenwë]

She's a great actress in every way, loved her in Armaggedon :)

[LuthienT]

That is a sad movie, I have not seen all of it, but from what I have seen it is sad.

[Abendstern]

the ending is sad... but the rest is funny (if you don't mind the huge rocks falling on everybody's head..)!
I've seen the trailer for Jersey Girl (with Ben Affleck and Liv again) ... it's sooo cute! And Liv is adorable!

[Elenwë]

yeah, she's so sweet and humble, so different from other hollywood actresses.

[Aranel of Mirkwood]

Some of these responces are so funny, and o true. Not the ones being nice about her of course. They should have kept Glorfindel, plus her voice is so creepy. She just really annoys me!!!! She is an alright Arwen I guess, though.

I can't believe I said that - I was so cruel. I have totally changed my opinion about her since I posted that. I'm sure Liv is a really nice woman and was a great Arwen. I personally stillthink they should have left Glorfindel in the role, but well I don't mind her as much. Her voice isn't that bad I have to admit that. Some of her quotes in interviews such as calling Orlando Bloom 'her little elven Brother' and on the Extended Edition of FotR saying 'they were all so cute' do make me roll my eyes a little but what celeb doesn't have quotes which you don't like. I like her as Arwen and she is a good actress, but I still think that Glorfindel should have been kept in that role. (Elladan and Elrohir should have been in RotK too!!!) But now I totally take my quote above back. Liv Tyler is a brilliant Arwen and I could never imagine anyone else in her role.

[Abendstern]

it's nice that people are able to change their minds... :thumbs: well, that glorfindel or arwen thing... I don't know... I'm fine with the changes. But I really would've liked to see the twins in ROTK!

[Elenwë]

I would've liked to see Glorfindel in the movie, but the changes with Arwen were good to me. I wanted to see Elladan and Elrohir, I can't imagine how goodlooking the would be :drool:

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I would have loved to see Imrahil...I always imagined him as very handsome and somehow rather exotic...but that's just me. ;)
You know, Aranel, I liked Liv's comments about Orlando and the hobbits...they were just rather funny. And I think it's sweet what she said about Orlando. But I do understand what you mean, never fear. ;) :thumbs: lol
It was really funny what she said on the FotR DVD about her dad and her voice...I think this is how it went.
"After my dad saw the movie he said, "whose voice was that?", and I said "Dad, you jerk! It was my voice! I'm an actress!"
It was hilarious how she said it, you have to watch it to get the feeling. (Cameras of Middle Earth)

[Abendstern]

roflmao I remember that bit! It was so funny (well, like the rest of the specials... like "fellowship of the cast" lol )! First I had my doubts too about that voice... I wasn't sure, it sounded so much unlike liv... but after hearing her saying something in that voice live I'm convinced!

[Elenwë]

That's funny. I didn't think that was her voice either, but in the end I got convinced.

I would've like to see Imrahil too and Erkebrand.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

And...and...what's-his-name...Beregond! I think that's the one...
You know what's funny is I didn't even realize her voice was so different until she said that, and then I got it. *shakes head* :blush:
You know whose voice/accent seems really different from his on-screen counterpart (lol roflmao)? Sean Bean's! He is almost impossible to understand and he sounds rather strange...his Boromir voice was quite good though...

[Elenwë]

Yeap, his accent changed a lot. Where is he from?

[Abendstern]

He is from Sheffield, England - that would be a Yorkshire accent then...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Ahhh...that explains it. You know what's really interesting? How Orlando, who is from Kent or something like that (:blush: ) and Yorkie Sean can sound so different even though they probably weren't born all that far away from each other! Although I know for a fact that I sound way different from people only five hundred miles away...about two states over or something like that...(Ohio to New York...NY people have HILARIOUS accents...especially the ones right in NYC)

[Mithril]

Never thought of that before, we're only a small island in comparison to the U.S, yet people only 100 miles apart can have totally different accents.

[Elenwë]

Honestly... I hardly can tell between English and American accent. Maybe U.S southern accent.... lol :grin:

[Abendstern]

me too!lol

let's go back to topic or someone will hit us... :shhh:
there are some people (not necessarily in this forum) who say, that Liv Tyler is ugly and untalented and only gets her roles because of her dad, steven tyler. does that mean the directors who casted her are aerosmith fans? I'm currently trying to imagine how Tom Hanks, Robert Altman, Bernardo Bertulucci and Peter Jackson meet on an aerosmith concert.... :o

[Lady Galadriel]

does that mean the directors who casted her are aerosmith fans? I'm currently trying to imagine how Tom Hanks, Robert Altman, Bernardo Bertulucci and Peter Jackson meet on an aerosmith concert....

My thoughts exactly. I found that supposition absolutely hilarious. Only unless Aerosmith has a big fan base in New Zealand or something. Funny.

Anywho, Liv is beautiful/attractive in her own right. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. As the "Second born" I find that mankind is very harsh and unkind though. I myself has a few characters in LOTR that I am not very fond of. However, I have absolutely refrained from denigrating any of the actors because that is exactly what they are. Actors who are portraying a particular role. However, I suspect that I am one of the few who employs that mentality.

And whats this I hear about people putting an ugly twist on Sam and Frodo's relationship. Can we get anymore perverse. It certainly makes me think that there is something wrong with our "understanding." Tolkien wrote much love bwt his characters. I remember very well when Aragorn was leaving for the Paths of the Dead that he said, "There goes one that I love" meaning Eomer. As a Tolkien fan, I think that PJ did a great job with showing the bonds bwt the characters.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Yeah, somehow there are people who missed out on the whole "bond of deep friendship" thing with Frodo and Sam. I had to endure several nasty comments when I last saw RotK about them, and also concerning Merry and Pippin. Those guys got a whole lot of nasty looks from me though. :p :wicked:
You know, somehow I doubt that who Liv's dad was carries a whole lot of weight in the acting world. I mean, a lot of people who act were from acting families, so why don't they pick on them?(not that I want them to, but you know what I'm saying) Liv obviously got the roles on her own, and there's never any need to try and smash people's reputations just because you feel like it...but fortunately there are considerate people out there.

[Elenwë]

People is ridicuosly scared of love bonds between people from the same sex, it's true, it annoys me so much because they're just characters who are very fond of each other and they show their love for one another. I don't understand why those comments, it's ludacris to even mention it, only for respect of Professor Tolkien. If those kind of people wouldn't show love to their "beloved" ones, it's not our problem, meanwhile let other people who ain't afraid of it enojoy it. GeeZ! What's wrong with this world!. I love watching Frodo and Sam, Merry and Pippin and Legolas and Gimli and Aragorn and Eomer because they're loyal and they care about each other, it's so sad to hear people making nasty comments about it.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I know! I don't know why they find it necessary to do so...it's really quite rude and it makes them sound childish. *shakes head*
Well, better get back to topic! I can't think of what to say...uh-oh. Just know that I mean well. ;) lol roflmao

[Elenwë]

Well, I'm on Liv's side... that's all I have to say.

[Lady Luthien]

I wouldn't pay any attention to comments like those about Frodo and Sam...people make them simply because they're not mature enough to understand the type of relationship they have. They're just being childish if they say things like that.

[Elenwë]

That's true... maturity... not all people have that, how sad is that!

[Lady Luthien]

lol quite sad...especially in higschool :rolleyes:

but yes, back to topic...Liv is the best! :thumbs:

[Elenwë]

Oh yeah she is! :thumbs:

I was watching some Aerosmith videos and I found the "Crazy" video, she's a really goodlooking lady, I feel a little envy lol

[Lady Luthien]

I know!! She's so rediculously pretty that it's just annoying lol

[Lalaith of Rohan]

roflmao!! Never seen the "Crazy" video...hmmm...*ponders absently* lol I'm a bit-er-"off" today, don't mind me. ;)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I'm not actually double-posting--this is two days later. ;) :thumbs:
Anywho, I just thought this Liv quote was amusing so I will stick it here. It's on the WotR news right now.

She says, "I thought, Benji is the sexiest man alive? I don't think of him as a sex symbol at all. He's always doing crossword puzzles, so I just think of him as a big nerd."
(Liv on Ben Affleck!)

[Uilos]

I think that she was great as Arwen. I could't imagine any other actress for Arwen's role. I can't remember where, but I saw a pic of Arwen/Liv at the ford of Bruinen and someone had put Julia Roberts' (sp?) face over hers and I tought: only over my dead body... lol

[Abendstern]

She says, "I thought, Benji is the sexiest man alive? I don't think of him as a sex symbol at all. He's always doing crossword puzzles, so I just think of him as a big nerd."
lol I've read this too and I nearly fell off my chair, Lalaith!

I saw a pic of Arwen/Liv at the ford of Bruinen and someone had put Julia Roberts' (sp?) face over hers and I tought: only over my dead body...
roflmao I'm glad that this not necessary, Uilos! Julia Roberts isn't a bad actress but I just can't picture her as Arwen. I mean when there are comparisons between Liv and her horse (just because she has a little overbite - hey, I have an overbite too BUT I DON'T LOOK LIKE A HORSE! mmpf) what would've happen then when Julia.... :o

[Lalaith of Rohan]

I've never even noticed that she has one...that's cruel to compare her to a horse like that. I love horses but I wouldn't enjoy someone telling me that I look like one!
I think that she was great as Arwen. I could't imagine any other actress for Arwen's role. I can't remember where, but I saw a pic of Arwen/Liv at the ford of Bruinen and someone had put Julia Roberts' (sp?) face over hers and I tought: only over my dead body...
Precisely! ;) lol

[Elenwë]

There you go Uilos! :thumbs:

I can't imagine Julia Roberts in the role of Arwen, to me she's not fair enough to be an elf, she's a great actress but I don't think she would pull it off.

[Miruvor]

I could just see Julia Roberts breaking out into a big laugh at every little thing. Not very elf-like. I don't know that I have ever seen her play pathos.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Julia Roberts is so definately not Arwen...*shudders*
I watched part of FotR and Liv did a great job...very "elven". :thumbs:

[Lady Galadriel]

I saw Liv on tv at the Screen Actors Guild award tonight. She is a very tall girl. She seems so shy too. I really think she is lovely. I have never heard anything negative about her in the media and believe me I read and look at many entertainment news. America love that sort of stuff. :) Anyway, one night I saw her on David Letterman and she was so nice. As such, I always feel the urge to defend her against harsh comments whenever I can.

[Cosmic Aurora]

I really don't understand why some people don't like Liv Tyler. Most of us don't know her personally or have even met her but I think she's a lovely person with a really charming personality. In my opinion she made a great Arwen. I just can't picture anyone taking her place. But i guess we all got our own opinion.:grin:

[Abendstern]

:thumbs: Yay, GO you two! :grin:

I hope there will be clip from the SAG which I can download... really want to see Liv's presentation and when they win...

[Elenwë]

They won at the SAG awards!!!... Liv looked lovele, she's a nice goodlooking girl (I feel a little envy)... I really admire her.

[Abendstern]

yeah, isn't that UNFAIR? lol

I've seen some parts now... Liv was so cute! and the acceptance speeches of the cast were hilarious!roflmao

[Elenwë]

Yeah, what was with Sean A.? What' that speech all about?... but it was really funny when John Davis pushed him away and started talking about the producer being the worse actor in the world and Billy Boyd saying their award was bigger that the other lol lol lol

[Lady Galadriel]

I actually turned the volume down when he started that Union talk. I felt that it was so inappropriate.

Anyway, Liv makes Catherine Zeta-Jones look short. I love to see both woman:)

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Union talk? Can I be filled in a bit, please? I missed all this, apparently. :grin:
I watched "Armegeddon" (spell?) a few days ago, and Liv really pulled that off well. ;) She looked so young! It really surprised me...I guess LotR came years later, I never realized.

[Lady Galadriel]

I just found a lovely essay/article that was written about Liv/Arwen. The author actually hated Liv and shows her journey from that hate to loving her as Arwen. It is somewhat of a defense and love for her portrayal of Arwen. Here is the link for you guys. I know there is only a very few of us who actually love Liv as Arwen and I really think this article points out some other reasons to love her more by this author's analysis.

http://greenbooks.theonering.net/quickbeam/files/091503.html

[Abendstern]

thanks Lady G!

from a recent Interview:

LT: There was lots of weird stuff on the internet before the movie came out. I went and looked at one of the websites, and I was so bummed out because they were saying things that were really mean about me.

AT: Like what?

LT: Well, they weren’t anything to do with the movie, they were like personal attacks, like I was the spoiled daughter of a rock star, that I was too Hollywood to play Arwen. Anyone who knows me well can tell you that I’m far from a spoiled daughter of a rock star…I didn’t actually know who my dad was until I was an older kid. I didn’t have a very easy upbringing…but then when the movie came out the criticism sort of died down. Then I realized that the fans are quite picky about everything…there wasn’t really a time where they picked on me any more than anyone else.

[Vanyë]

Why don't you guys like Liv? i like her because she's nice and i think she did a good job as Arwen.

[Lalaith of Rohan]

Hey, never fear, all us here are Liv-likers. ;) lol
Anybody have pics of Liv at the Academy Awards? I'm curious to see what she wore...it was supposed to be pretty...I think someone said it was black...I like black...I wear it a lot...probably because I'm pale and dark like Liv...but also because it's fun...and because it's winter...;) lol roflmao

[Abendstern]

look here (http://www.lovelylivtyler.com/pictures/picindex.php?sec=misc&page=60&language=english) and here (http://www.lovelylivtyler.com/pictures/picindex.php?sec=ff&page=40&language=english) there are a lot of pics...

and vanye, most of us in this topic do like Liv, just like Lalaith said... ;)

lol Lalaith, good taste! I'm wearing black most of the time, too! not necessarily in summer but whenever I can, I wear black clothes (some of my friends keep asking me if someone died... :o ) lol

[Lady Galadriel]

Yes. She looked very elegant at the Oscars. Again, I realized she is very tall. I saw on the main page that she will be on one of the late night shows. I have to look out for that.

[Elenwë]

I didn't like her look at the Oscars but I looooooved her dress for the SAG awards, it was just beautiful.

[Jenny Brandybuck]

I loooved her dress at the oscars :) She looked so elegant and beautiful ;) But her dress at SAG was also amazing.

I don' t understand why some people didn' t like Liv as Arwen :mmmm: I think she did a great and wonderful work for bringing her character to life :ring:

[Elenwë]

Yes indeed, she made a great Arwen eventhough she had very few appearences in the movie. She also had a great chemistry woth Viggo Mortensen and that's saying a lot.

[Lady Galadriel]

I agree with you both. She made an excellent Arwen. Viggo and her were great together.

By the way, Cate Blanchett was excellent as Galadriel too. I love her voice overs. In the trailers and the movie the voice overs are really wonderful.

[Elenwë]

Cate Blanchett is amazing, one of the best actresses in Hollywood, I absolutely adore her nad she was also perfect as Galadriel, her voice, her look... everything!

[Secondbreakfast]

I think LIV is cool!! shes beautiful-a great actress-and shes so calm all the time!! i think she has great fashion sense and she fits the part of Arwen perfectly!! i have to admit i didn't like her at some point--but im sorry i didnt! shes one cool chick and i support her fully!!lucky puppy--15 months with all those hot guys(i wont go into the names...DOM ORLY!!;)) but shes married! o well but still!!

[Lady Galadriel]

Last night I was watching the scene where Elrond was telling her about Aragorn's death...That scene is so sad and I think if I was her I would have been on that ship to Valinor. Especially since her love for Aragorn would only be a memory in Valinor. She did a really great job as Arwen.

[Abendstern]

yep, that scene made me cry... mecry
well, she decided to go to Valinor after that vision... and turned back after seeing her son... that shows her strength and boldness.

[Elenwë]

when she sees Eldarion mecry mecry mecry... the way she looks at her child is so sweet mecry mecry and Aragorn holding him... one of my favorite scenes

[Lady Galadriel]

Yes. That was a nice scene and Eldarion is so cute.

[Abendstern]

it's amazing that they found someone who looks like Liv and Viggo in some way... definitely Liv's eyes... veryhappy

[Lady Galadriel]

Abendstern, that is funny. I have heard something like that before. Someone said that he looks like one of Liv's relatives.

[Abendstern]

erm... he looks like an actual relative or like he could be a relative? :wiggle:

[Elenwë]

Maybe he is... that kid is so cute and he has a bright future as Aragorn's heir... lol :p

[Lady Galadriel]

He is fortunate indeed. :)

[Elenwë]

:)

Besides Jersey Girl, which other movie features Liv?

[Lady Galadriel]

Do mean movies that will be released this year?

[Abendstern]

Her next movie after Jersey Girl will be "Lonesome Jim", directed by Steve Buscemi, along with Ben Affleck's brother Casey. They started filming in February...

[Elenwë]

Ah.. good! :thumbs:

[Lady Galadriel]

I cant wait to see Jersey Girl. I am going to see it as soon as its released.

[Abendstern]

lucky you! it's possible that JG don't come out here in Germany because of that Gigli disaster! mecry totally unfair! mecry mecry mecry

[Elenwë]

Really, Gigli wasn't even released here in Latin America!, I guess after that mess in the U.S. they didn't even give it a try here... Thank God!

[Lady Galadriel]

LOL...thats funny. People make a lot of jokes about Gigli.

Yeah. Well there is an adorable little girl in Jersey Girl and it might just be a good story.

[Elenwë]

Let me get this straight, the movie couple is: J-Lo / Ben or Liv / Ben like old Armaggedon times???

[Lady Galadriel]

I think its Liv and Ben. JLO dies in the beginning. I guess she was the kid's mother and Ben's wife. I think Liv will meet him after he is widowed.

[Abendstern]

yep, old Armageddon times! :grin:
before Gigli and this wedding disaster the advertising focused mostly on the Bennifer coupling in this movie, JLo was mentioned BEFORE Ben as main actress... that caused a lot confusion... then came Gigli... and they took JLo off the poster and moved her name to the end (with an "and" for more money) and cut some of her scenes, that's why she didn't attend any of the premieres til now. grow up, Jenny! they cut a lot of Arwen stuff from the LOTR movies, but Liv didn't sulk! :p

[Lady Galadriel]

Whats this Abendstern? Which movie are you speaking of? Gigli? JLo was taken off the poster for Gigli or Jersey Girl?

[Abendstern]

whoops! sorry! :grin: I'm speaking of Jersey Girl... forgot to mention it... well, they couldn't remove JLo from the Gigli posters after it proofed a disaster... I think... and in Gigli she WAS the main actress unlike in Jersey Girl were she never had more than 30 minutes... now 12
In Jersey Girl they first did with JLo what the marketing did with Liv in LOTR... placing her in the front - now I understand better why some LOTR fans were "upset" about it...

[Lalaith of Rohan]

This is all getting very complicated, I must say. ;) lol

[Lady Galadriel]

placing her in the front - now I understand better why some LOTR fans were "upset" about it...

Really? I dont get it why they were so upset with Arwen being on the poster. I think if anything both women should be there. Although Arwen is not in the movie for all of 10 mins, her destiny is intertwined with Aragorn and Frodo. Thats enough justification for me.

[Lady Galadriel]

Oh, and I still dont understand the animosity towards Arwen/Liv. There are numerous anti-Arwen websites on the internet. Its unbelievable. I have never seen anything like it. I wonder why so much animosity.

[Abendstern]

I said I understand it better, not that I think in this way... lol I had really no problem with Arwen on the poster, but it sure would've been nice when there were more characters on the ROTK poster... in the photo forum are two variations of this with a removed arwen... I don't understand why they just didn't ADD the characters...:huh:

Oh, and I still dont understand the animosity towards Arwen/Liv. There are numerous anti-Arwen websites on the internet. Its unbelievable. I have never seen anything like it. I wonder why so much animosity.

that'll always be a riddle for me. I'm sure none of these people ever met Liv (and it's strange to hate someone you don't know for playing a role in a movie ) and Arwen doesn't even exist. but what I think is somewhat interesting is the fact that the most hatred comes from the Eowyn/Miranda fans (not all, but many). THAT is strange... visit a E/M forum and you often find them picking on Liv/Arwen (and their argumentation is not very mature), in a Arwen/Liv forum you can find a lot of people who actually love Eowyn and Miranda. I still don't get the reason...

[Lady Galadriel]

in the photo forum are two variations of this with a removed arwen... I don't understand why they just didn't ADD the characters...

Yeah. I have seen them. I do agree with you that it depends on the maturity of the individual. My friends and I are all in our early 20s and we were shocked. Many of my friends are indifferent to both women whereas one love Eowyn, but she doesnt hate Arwen. I also am a member of a A&A forum and there are members there who love Eowyn too. Of course, the major love is given to Arwen though.


but what I think is somewhat interesting is the fact that the most hatred comes from the Eowyn/Miranda fans (not all, but many). THAT is strange... visit a E/M forum and you often find them picking on Liv/Arwen (and their argumentation is not very mature), in a Arwen/Liv forum you can find a lot of people who actually love Eowyn and Miranda. I still don't get the reason...

Yeah. I realized that too. One of the members on the A&A forum could not stand Eowyn because of that. I told her that she has to ignore the adverse comments about Arwen because it leads her to hate Eowyn for no reason at all. I believe her problem stemmed from the fact that in the same breath that people diss Arwen they praise Eowyn. In that way it unconsciously causes her to develop a dislike for Eowyn. So we have a kind of "Arwen strengthening" club. lol No negativity.

So whenever she feels defeated by all the harsh comments about Arwen, all she needs to do is visit our forum and replenish her strength. :grin: If you ask me, she seeks adversity because she actually visits Aragorn&Eowyn love websites. I mean, how crazy can we get about a movie?

[Lady Galadriel]

Where are you guys?

Anyway, Jersey Girl is out this coming weekend. I understand that JLo's part was edited down because of the Gigli debacle. That is probably why she would have been on the cover of the movie.

Also, if you guys love Arwen, I wrote a fanfiction about her along with the rest of the characters. I would really appreciate your reviews. Here is the link

http://www.warofthering.net/fanfiction/viewstory.php?sid=1155

By the way, Abenstern your pics are really great.

[Abendstern]

here I am! sorry... was busy... :)

can you give me the link to this A/A forum? sounds interesting...

Yeah. I realized that too. One of the members on the A&A forum could not stand Eowyn because of that. I told her that she has to ignore the adverse comments about Arwen because it leads her to hate Eowyn for no reason at all. I believe her problem stemmed from the fact that in the same breath that people diss Arwen they praise Eowyn. In that way it unconsciously causes her to develop a dislike for Eowyn.

lol I know this reaction, I had to fight against it myself. I adore Eowyn for what she is, her character, but when you read all this negative comments about arwen it is soooo hard not to think "that little *****" as if this character has anything to do with this... silly humans... :p

I mean, how crazy can we get about a movie?

lol oh, that can go WAY further...

By the way, Abenstern your pics are really great.
Thank you! unfortunately I can't upload anymore pics cause they cut down the space from 100.000 kb to 10.000 kb, so I'm far beyond my limit... :(

so, and now off to read your stories... :)

[Lady Galadriel]

That sucks.I can't upload anymore pics cause they cut down the space from 100.000 kb to 10.000 kb, so I'm far beyond my limit.

That sucks. I was hoping maybe you could do one with Arwen, Eldarion, Aragorn, and Arwen's kin. Nice family portrait. ;)


can you give me the link to this A/A forum? sounds interesting...

Here is the link : http://winterplum.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi

so, and now off to read your stories...

Yeah. A few non-forum friends has read it and liked it. Its a work in progress but I would really appreciate reviews. Its several chapters so I would suggest printing it. Hope you like.

Anyway, back to the topic. I cannot wait to see Jersey Girl. I have a date with a girlfriend to see Passion of the Christ on Saturday so I am hoping I can squeeze it in sometime this weekend.

[Maiden of Twilight]

I thought she did a wonderful job as Arwen. I think that a lot of the people who dis her