Cloning

[Ranger]

There's a thread on this subject at one of the other sites I go to, so what do you think about it? I think it's totally wrong and incredibly stupid

[Eowyn]

erm...Aranel and I run a cloning company (on this site! )

I personally think in real life its wrong.
it reduces variety and increases chances of new diseases. I do believe it is ok for use to make stem cells. but not a new human.

some couples want it so they can replace a child they lost. what they don't realize is that although they may look the same their character is likely to be different because environment and experiences play a part in who we are.

I could go on for longer but I shall not bore you.

[Sindarin]

Although I agree with stem-cell research (seeing as how they can create new cells, eg: leukocytes in bone marrow, which can be used to help treat cancer), I don't believe in cloning humans. It's an ethical issue in my opinion.

Personally speaking, there can be nothing but trouble in attempting to clone people.

The fact that they even thought of cloning ppl makes me furious. I really do not think it's right at all. I'm not much of a scientist here but I agree with Ranger very very stupid and even if it's to replace a child I know it hurts but if he's gone he's gone and that's the way life is and it shouldn't be tampered with

[Keverzwijn]

I heard something on the news yesterday. The first clone baby is born, it's a girl and it was 'produced' by clone-aid (I think) An organisation that has close contact with a sekt from some French guy that thinks he was abducted by aliens. I am not in favor of these things. I am a fervent scientist but this is moraly not right. I do agree onthe cell with you.

[Bonos-Girl]

i think that it was wrong to clone a sheep and is no better to clone a human...but this doesn't mean that scientists aren't going to use the technology available for them to use. a lot of people think that animal testing is wrong but it still happens, a lot of people think that the way in which animals are farmed is wrong but it's never changed. whatever anyone says about this it's still going to hapen (as long as the sect aren't lying about it that is!)

i agree that cloning people is pretty stupid. Certainly people need to leave things in the past, or next they'll be digging up famous dead people and cloning them. People who can't have babies.. adopt! there are plenty of children who could use a good home. I hope that baby turns out NOT to be a clone. And once you clone people, who's to say that won't lead to organ harvesting and other scary stuff!
(btw, i totally support stem cell research)

[Ranger]

I agree with what you're all saying about this, and I'd be surprised if they haven't thought about digging up some famous or once great, now dead person and see if they can clone them. A bit of his intellect and the other guys amazing brain! It's scary.

[Dawnnamira Nerwen]

...you're right, Ranger.

In my mind cloning is totally unnessecary. Just look at all of the health problems Dolly had...I don't think a human clone would be any healthier.

I believe that all life is inspired by God, and I also believe that every single one of us is unique...there never has or will be anyone just like us.

So there are some medical befenits of cloning...but should we kill the 'clones' to help someone else?

Again, it's the 'Sacrifice one for the good of all' concept.

[Polly Sandybanks]

I read about that clone baby too. I was really upset when I first read about that sheep (Dolly) being cloned, and then all those other animals. These scientists play with nature.
I don't think any cloning of living things is right.
I do agree on the stem cell thing though.

[Eowyn]

so most people agree with the stem cell research but not cloning.
Bright Shadow your comment about the organ harvesting. I presume you mean the growth of organs outside a body. apparently this has happened. I do think its risky playing with genes because if we iradicate a genetic disease who is to say that another disease will not take its place.

for example, sickle cell anaemia carriers and sufferers do not suffer from Malaria this is why sickle cell is common in those areas. It benefits those people and so over time it selects this character because these people survive longer. (they don't die from malaria) there are so many other diseases like this.

there is also the risk that altering a gene (gene therapy) what happens if it affects another gene. there is still a chance they could suffer from another disease.

apparently all humans carry between 5 -8 potential lethal genetic diseases. I'm a biologist and I personally would love to study genetic diseases.

I was slighlty shocked but not really surprised when I heard about the Clone Baby - its been brewing for a while, and has in some ways been a 'race' between the different companied to see who can do it first. But it is wrong - morally and even scientificaly. Even the company that cloned Dolly has lashed out at this new clone - they have reported all the problems that there cloned animals developed - both physically and mentally.

I agree totally with stem cell research, and even to some extent with gene replacement therapy, although this needs a lot more research into it before it can be made available - as Eowyn said they need to make sure by eradicating one disease they don't introduce another.

[Iarfirithwen]

A quick woffle from me as I don't have time to write out something properly. I agree with therapeutic cloning (stem cell research etc) but not with cloning an entire human individual partially for reasons Eowyn has discussed (i.e., in short I believe tampering with processes of natural selection and the adaptive significance it confers on a species is a problem). Its also a risky business and misconceived by many. Most people are not aware of the large number embryos that were created in the process in attaining Dolly that were not viable. Nor do we know yet the long term consequences for Dolly's heath e.g., is the early onset arthritis in Dolly a result of cloning or natural aging (unfortunately a sample of 1 does not make a scientific expreriment from which we can draw reliable conclusions). (there are also potential problems in cloning DNA from an adult which is no longer quite in the condition it was as an infant - so essentially you are giving an infant DNA of the quality of an adult).
Then there are the widely misconceived ideas of how genes relate to cognitive processes. People forget that genes and the environment interact to produce an individual. Cloning a lost child will not bring that child back because they will not have the memories of the lost child (ignoring here for a moment the complex issues of what it would be like for that child growing up with the expectations of becoming someone else etc and how grieving is an unfortunate but necessary part of life etc). In the same vein cloning Einstein would not necessarily produce a genius who would go on to develop great scientific theories. It might allow for unique features of neural development in his brain (Einsteins brain had on average more synaptic connections (more connection between brain cells) than the average human male brain but it is also possible that could be from environmental experience (i.e., learning can produce an increase in synaptic connections). I'm sure there are others out there that also have similarly developed brains who would not be considered geniuses in the same way...they could quite easily be working at McDonalds or living on the street (no offence intended to these groups ...just trying to run down a stereotype). In many cases genes may predipose you to something but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up with it (this can apply to disease aswell e.g., cancer) because of the way genes and environment interact.(I'm ignoring processes involved in physical appearance etc because I'm as familiar with that).

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Bonos-Girl not wanting to get into a big argument on animal research (I agree with some but not other forms) I do know of people who against all forms of animal research including medical research that have no idea what goes on or how restricted and controlled it is (atleast in some countries this may not apply to all countries) and are usually quite surprised that its not all as bad as its often made out to be. (Yes I have met people in the past who do conduct medical research which involves the use of animals). Thats not to say that opinion is wrong, nor is that to say there aren't people who are aware and have spent great time debating it and thinking about it from an informed perspective who still don't agree with it. All valid opinions to which everyone is entitled. (Just a personal experience I've met people who have gone from one extreme to another after being exposed to it).

It is also an interesting debate as to whether scientists should investigate something or develop technologies because there are others who might misuse them ... thats a hard call. but a very interesting one to raise. All issues raised in this thread have been really interesting Like were the scientists that first developed and cloned an organism wrong for doing so because there were individuals down the track who might misuse it even if it had the potential to cure disease?
These are definitely all issues I think we should all be thinking about. Keep it coming

I very happy someone had the balls to begin human cloning, what most people don't understand is that through cloning and genetic engineering we can cure just about every disease there is (cancer will be striken from this world, AIDS will be of little concern, organ and blood transplants will become full proof). Albi said it best, "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."

If you all are so eager to die from some disease; please, by all means feel free, but don't screw it up for the rest of us.

Secondly Adoption is different than cloning your son, the latter is YOUR own gentic material, though he is not your son (not the same one anyways, and caring for your 'own' is hardcoded into you anyways, hence the reason why so many people DON'T adopt when they can have thier own). And yes I hope they clone Einstein, the clone will have the same potential to be as smart as the original. While they're at it they should clone Tolkien and have Chris raise him too. :D

And to the person that said Einstein's brain may have been as such from his enviroment, that was a theory proposed by Lemark around the same time as Darwin was proposing his, it was abandoned by the scientific community almost 200 years ago, I suggest you do the same. Dying my hair green will not make it green over any period of time (which is in essense what you and Lemark were saying, brain structure is an inherantly genotypic process).

[Eowyn]

WRONG! I am a Biologist trust me I know what I'm saying! There are too many risks! If we start cloning organisms then how will evolution take place? not only will it be seen as wrong from a religious point of view but it doesn't help anyone. Dolly the sheep is now suffering from arthritis and who knows what other diseases will occur. the slightest change in DNA can cause a major change in genes. this means protein activity can be lost and so diseases occur that way. there are many mutations that can occur in this way.
I've already said we carry the potential for several fatal diseases. but these allow us to evolve to suit our conditions as explained earlier.

I agree that we should be able to help cure some diseases or at least aid those suffering. but not genetics. cloning a new human will not help save anyone! It's just scientists showing off! trying to be the first so their names are remembered but it proves nothing. just some poor child will live there life being probed and tested to see if everything is normal. they won't get a normal childhood and so will personality wise be completely different to the person they were cloned from.

how can you say that cloning a lost child is the same. It is completely wrong. studies have been carried out between identical twins that show that genetics is not the only thing that affects the characteristics of the child. Nuture is just as important. If not more so! yes there may be a gene which allows people to be more intelligent than others but this is only the case IF the child is encouraged to learn!

Environment does play a role in the persons behaviour. by that no-one means dying your hair, they mean, the interactions between yourself and those around you. children benefit from an early education and having their mother around. there is evidence to support this!

nobody here is thinking in an old fashioned way as you seem to be suggesting. we are not trying to obstruct science we're trying to limit it so that they don't get into situations they shouldn't.

I suppose you'll be one who agrees with designer babies?